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[GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298885] Mon, 11 April 2016 16:46 Go to next message
glwgmc is currently offline  glwgmc   United States
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
Senior Member
The following is from an email I received this morning. This company makes kits for converting generators like our old Onans to run on propane instead of (or in addition to) gasoline. I have on order one of their conversion kits (about $100) to convert the Onan in the Clasco to run on propane. That generator had major problems when we picked it up in FL a few years ago. JimB’s people nuked the control board and rewired it to require one switch to turn it on or off and a second switch to start it. That works, but it has been requiring longer and longer to crank before it will start. It runs like a champ (thanks to Gary Bovee’s solid state ignition system) once it starts. By running it off of propane I hope to enjoy much faster start ups, smoother running yet, and virtually no gas residual issues to deal with in the future. I will report what I find once that conversion is completed.

This mornings email pertains to new Yamaha generators that have already been converted to run on propane, natural gas or gasoline for those of you with a broken or hopeless Onan:


--------------

We hope you have had a great Monday! We thought you may want to know that we are having a one day "flash sale" on certain Hybrid Converted Yamaha Generators.

All of our generators have been converted so that they can run on either propane, natural gas or gasoline, and are brand new units!

Model $$ Shipping
Yamaha 24iSHX - 2400 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $1,400 FREE
Yamaha EF30iSEBX 3000 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $2,400 FREE
Yamaha EF4500iSE 4500 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,059 FREE
Yamaha EF6300iSDE 6300 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,400 FREE

ALSO....the first 3 people to take advantage of this offer can save an ADDITIONAL $100 by using code GEN0416!!! That makes for the lowest pricing we have ever offered on these converted units.

If you have any questions about these units, please feel free to reply to this email and we will be happy to help.

As always, thank you for your business!

Thank you,

US Carburetion

US Carburetion, 416 Main Street, Summersville, WV 26651, USA


-------------

Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR

glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com









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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298886 is a reply to message #298885] Mon, 11 April 2016 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
Jerry, Garretson also makes propane conversions for onan generators and
miller welders that use onan engines. I have converted several of them over
the years. Their kits will allow dual fuel or propane only with different
kits. They work on fuel vapor, like our refrigerators and furnaces do, so
no complicated regulator or liquid propane taps are necessary. We used the
miller welders indoors, much like fork lifts and floor polishers.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Gerald Work wrote:

> The following is from an email I received this morning. This company
> makes kits for converting generators like our old Onans to run on propane
> instead of (or in addition to) gasoline. I have on order one of their
> conversion kits (about $100) to convert the Onan in the Clasco to run on
> propane. That generator had major problems when we picked it up in FL a
> few years ago. JimB’s people nuked the control board and rewired it to
> require one switch to turn it on or off and a second switch to start it.
> That works, but it has been requiring longer and longer to crank before it
> will start. It runs like a champ (thanks to Gary Bovee’s solid state
> ignition system) once it starts. By running it off of propane I hope to
> enjoy much faster start ups, smoother running yet, and virtually no gas
> residual issues to deal with in the future. I will report what I find once
> that conversion is completed.
>
> This mornings email pertains to new Yamaha generators that have already
> been converted to run on propane, natural gas or gasoline for those of you
> with a broken or hopeless Onan:
>
>
> --------------
>
> We hope you have had a great Monday! We thought you may want to know that
> we are having a one day "flash sale" on certain Hybrid Converted Yamaha
> Generators.
>
> All of our generators have been converted so that they can run on either
> propane, natural gas or gasoline, and are brand new units!
>
> Model $$ Shipping
> Yamaha 24iSHX - 2400 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $1,400
> FREE
> Yamaha EF30iSEBX 3000 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $2,400
> FREE
> Yamaha EF4500iSE 4500 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,059
> FREE
> Yamaha EF6300iSDE 6300 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,400
> FREE
>
> ALSO....the first 3 people to take advantage of this offer can save an
> ADDITIONAL $100 by using code GEN0416!!! That makes for the lowest pricing
> we have ever offered on these converted units.
>
> If you have any questions about these units, please feel free to reply to
> this email and we will be happy to help.
>
> As always, thank you for your business!
>
> Thank you,
>
> US Carburetion
>
> US Carburetion, 416 Main Street, Summersville, WV 26651, USA
>
>
> -------------
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> The Dovetail Joint
> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple
> building in historic Kerby, OR
>
> glwork@mac.com
> http://jerrywork.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298889 is a reply to message #298885] Mon, 11 April 2016 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
glwgmc wrote on Mon, 11 April 2016 16:46
...the Onan...has been requiring longer and longer to crank before it will start. ...
I am going to guess that the fuel pump is becoming less able to self-prime itself.

Consider a priming button that you can use to run the pump until the carb bowl is full before you hit the "start" button. Save your starter some wear and tear.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/onan-fuel-pump-primer-switch/p9013.html

Nothing wrong with switching to propane if you are not shooting yourself in the foot. Propane only has 75% as much energy as the same volume of gasoline. So you will use 33% more propane over time for a given load. Next consider that you have a bit less than 10 gallons of propane on board. You could have as much as 50 gallons of gas, of which 44 can be reached by the Onan bung. Figure as little as 10 hours at full Onan load from a full propane tank before it is empty, vs close to 60 hours on full gas tanks.
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298890 is a reply to message #298885] Mon, 11 April 2016 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
And cleaner exhaust, yes. Easier to start??? Not thinking so. I have a 9KW Vtwin trifuel home generator on a wheelable cart. They recommend you start it on gasoline, then turn off the gasoline petcock and just as it starts to falter turn on the supply of LP or NG. It's hard to start it on NG. On the other hand I don't recall our propane Clark lift trucks being difficult to start on propane. Maybe as the were designed that way? I'm guessing you have a lazy choke if that is the only problem. I do really like the gasoline/LP idea if there are no downsides. I typically don't have long runtimes on the Onan. Like an hour when stopping in a rest area for lunch. The LP exhaust would he much preferred. Once at campgrounds I'm on the 14-50 post. Tri fuel refrigerator so why not a Bi fuel Onan.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298891 is a reply to message #298885] Mon, 11 April 2016 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
<rallymaster is currently offline  <rallymaster   United States
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2014
Karma: 2
Senior Member
I think the fork lift runs on liquid propane.

ronC

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:34:01 -0600 John R. Lebetski
writes:
> And cleaner exhaust, yes. Easier to start??? Not thinking so. I have
> a 9KW Vtwin trifuel home generator on a wheelable cart. They
> recommend you start
> it on gasoline, then turn off the gasoline petcock and just as it
> starts to falter turn on the supply of LP or NG. It's hard to start
> it on NG. On
> the other hand I don't recall our propane Clark lift trucks being
> difficult to start on propane. Maybe as the were designed that way?


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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298893 is a reply to message #298885] Mon, 11 April 2016 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Like this?
http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2015/09/onan-gmc-propane-conversion.html#comment-form


On Monday, April 11, 2016, Gerald Work wrote:

> The following is from an email I received this morning. This company
> makes kits for converting generators like our old Onans to run on propane
> instead of (or in addition to) gasoline. I have on order one of their
> conversion kits (about $100) to convert the Onan in the Clasco to run on
> propane. That generator had major problems when we picked it up in FL a
> few years ago. JimB’s people nuked the control board and rewired it to
> require one switch to turn it on or off and a second switch to start it.
> That works, but it has been requiring longer and longer to crank before it
> will start. It runs like a champ (thanks to Gary Bovee’s solid state
> ignition system) once it starts. By running it off of propane I hope to
> enjoy much faster start ups, smoother running yet, and virtually no gas
> residual issues to deal with in the future. I will report what I find once
> that conversion is completed.
>
> This mornings email pertains to new Yamaha generators that have already
> been converted to run on propane, natural gas or gasoline for those of you
> with a broken or hopeless Onan:
>
>
> --------------
>
> We hope you have had a great Monday! We thought you may want to know that
> we are having a one day "flash sale" on certain Hybrid Converted Yamaha
> Generators.
>
> All of our generators have been converted so that they can run on either
> propane, natural gas or gasoline, and are brand new units!
>
> Model $$ Shipping
> Yamaha 24iSHX - 2400 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $1,400
> FREE
> Yamaha EF30iSEBX 3000 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $2,400
> FREE
> Yamaha EF4500iSE 4500 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,059
> FREE
> Yamaha EF6300iSDE 6300 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,400
> FREE
>
> ALSO....the first 3 people to take advantage of this offer can save an
> ADDITIONAL $100 by using code GEN0416!!! That makes for the lowest pricing
> we have ever offered on these converted units.
>
> If you have any questions about these units, please feel free to reply to
> this email and we will be happy to help.
>
> As always, thank you for your business!
>
> Thank you,
>
> US Carburetion
>
> US Carburetion, 416 Main Street, Summersville, WV 26651, USA
>
>
> -------------
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> The Dovetail Joint
> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple
> building in historic Kerby, OR
>
> glwork@mac.com
> http://jerrywork.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>


--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298894 is a reply to message #298893] Mon, 11 April 2016 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Better link

http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2015/09/onan-gmc-propane-conversion.html


On Monday, April 11, 2016, gene Fisher wrote:

> Like this?
>
> http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2015/09/onan-gmc-propane-conversion.html#comment-form
>
>
> On Monday, April 11, 2016, Gerald Work > wrote:
>
>> The following is from an email I received this morning. This company
>> makes kits for converting generators like our old Onans to run on propane
>> instead of (or in addition to) gasoline. I have on order one of their
>> conversion kits (about $100) to convert the Onan in the Clasco to run on
>> propane. That generator had major problems when we picked it up in FL a
>> few years ago. JimB’s people nuked the control board and rewired it to
>> require one switch to turn it on or off and a second switch to start it.
>> That works, but it has been requiring longer and longer to crank before it
>> will start. It runs like a champ (thanks to Gary Bovee’s solid state
>> ignition system) once it starts. By running it off of propane I hope to
>> enjoy much faster start ups, smoother running yet, and virtually no gas
>> residual issues to deal with in the future. I will report what I find once
>> that conversion is completed.
>>
>> This mornings email pertains to new Yamaha generators that have already
>> been converted to run on propane, natural gas or gasoline for those of you
>> with a broken or hopeless Onan:
>>
>>
>> --------------
>>
>> We hope you have had a great Monday! We thought you may want to know
>> that we are having a one day "flash sale" on certain Hybrid Converted
>> Yamaha Generators.
>>
>> All of our generators have been converted so that they can run on either
>> propane, natural gas or gasoline, and are brand new units!
>>
>> Model $$ Shipping
>> Yamaha 24iSHX - 2400 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $1,400
>> FREE
>> Yamaha EF30iSEBX 3000 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $2,400
>> FREE
>> Yamaha EF4500iSE 4500 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,059
>> FREE
>> Yamaha EF6300iSDE 6300 Watt Portable Hybrid Fuel Generator $3,400
>> FREE
>>
>> ALSO....the first 3 people to take advantage of this offer can save an
>> ADDITIONAL $100 by using code GEN0416!!! That makes for the lowest pricing
>> we have ever offered on these converted units.
>>
>> If you have any questions about these units, please feel free to reply to
>> this email and we will be happy to help.
>>
>> As always, thank you for your business!
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> US Carburetion
>>
>> US Carburetion, 416 Main Street, Summersville, WV 26651, USA
>>
>>
>> -------------
>>
>> Jerry
>> Jerry Work
>> The Dovetail Joint
>> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic
>> Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
>>
>> glwork@mac.com
>> http://jerrywork.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>


--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298900 is a reply to message #298891] Mon, 11 April 2016 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Emery Stora is currently offline  Emery Stora   United States
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
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Senior Member
Some run on liquid, some run on vapor (gas).

Emery Stora

> On Apr 11, 2016, at 5:09 PM, rallymaster@juno.com wrote:
>
> I think the fork lift runs on liquid propane.
>
> ronC
>
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:34:01 -0600 John R. Lebetski
> writes:
>> And cleaner exhaust, yes. Easier to start??? Not thinking so. I have
>> a 9KW Vtwin trifuel home generator on a wheelable cart. They
>> recommend you start
>> it on gasoline, then turn off the gasoline petcock and just as it
>> starts to falter turn on the supply of LP or NG. It's hard to start
>> it on NG. On
>> the other hand I don't recall our propane Clark lift trucks being
>> difficult to start on propane. Maybe as the were designed that way?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298919 is a reply to message #298885] Tue, 12 April 2016 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
I think it was liquid as the valve was at the side bottom of the tank. But it would all have to be vapor at some point before the intake valve. I do remember seeing frosting on the "carb" under certain conditions.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298921 is a reply to message #298890] Tue, 12 April 2016 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 11 April 2016 15:34
And cleaner exhaust, yes. Easier to start??? Not thinking so. I have a 9KW Vtwin trifuel home generator on a wheelable cart. They recommend you start it on gasoline, then turn off the gasoline petcock and just as it starts to falter turn on the supply of LP or NG. It's hard to start it on NG. On the other hand I don't recall our propane Clark lift trucks being difficult to start on propane. Maybe as the were designed that way? I'm guessing you have a lazy choke if that is the only problem. I do really like the gasoline/LP idea if there are no downsides. I typically don't have long runtimes on the Onan. Like an hour when stopping in a rest area for lunch. The LP exhaust would he much preferred. Once at campgrounds I'm on the 14-50 post. Tri fuel refrigerator so why not a Bi fuel Onan.


I have both my '37 Ford flathead and my Onan on propane. Technically propane is harder to "light" but the GMC Onan starts every time. Driving to Colorado for Western States last year we ran the Onan for several hour in warm weather. I looked when we stopped and the regulator and part of the tank was frosted, but it never faltered. I am sure if it had been cooler I could have frozen it up.

The pickup is on liquid until the regulator, which has hot water heater hoses running through it. On first install I was idling the Ford and checking things and after a few minutes, the pickup died. The regulator was a snowball. I learned the hot water was not an option hooked up the heater hoses. I find I have to have the ignition very tidy on the pickup. Onan has original points. I have a Bovee electronic kit and will get to that in the humm...cough quarter of next year.


'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298922 is a reply to message #298921] Tue, 12 April 2016 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry is currently offline  Harry   Canada
Messages: 1888
Registered: October 2007
Location: Victoria, BC CANADA
Karma: 3
Senior Member
First, the dry & boring physics of it all: The exact numbers seem to depend on which authoritative textbook you reference, but on average propane has about 25% less BTUs of energy per gallon than gasoline. So it stands to reason that you'd get 25% less horsepower on propane, all other things being equal. But there's the catch--all other things aren't equal. Liquid gasoline has to be atomized and mixed with air before it can be burned effectively in your engine. Engine builders know that in a carbureted engine a portion of that gasoline doesn't fully atomize and falls out of suspension, ending up in a puddle somewhere in the intake manifold. This is why the cylinders downhill from the carburetor tend to run richer than the others. (It's also one of the reasons why fuel-injected engines are more efficient than carbureted engines.)

Propane, on the other hand, is a gas, gas, gas. It doesn't need to atomize, and it doesn't puddle. Propane is only 1.5 times heavier than air, so it can literally hang out all day. And because it stays mixed with the air coming in the intake, all the cylinders get an equal air/fuel mixture. In short, propane makes up for fewer BTUs by burning more efficiently and completely. So the real-world horsepower loss for a propane conversion on an unmodified engine is more like 5%-15%.

Which brings us to the issue of naughty conversions. Propane engines require a different ignition advance curve compared to gasoline, typically advanced 5-15 degrees under 3,000 RPM. Additionally, propane has a higher octane rating than premium gasoline (about 105 compared to 91 or so), so you can build an engine with a higher compression ratio, making the engine even more efficient. The bottom line? An engine built with propane in mind can achieve roughly the same amount of horsepower--in some cases more--than a comparable gasoline carbureted engine.
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298925 is a reply to message #298922] Tue, 12 April 2016 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
Yes, that is a bit factual. But an NH ONAN engine is not exactly a perfect
example of an internal combustion engine perfectly suited for conversion,
particularly by a carb spacer ring with a brass elbow fitting screwed into
it to introduce propane. The fuel enrichment device (choke) consists of a
spring loaded button that holds the diaphragm valve open when pressed with
your thumb. Not exactly an automatic thermostatically controlled device.
When the engine is fully warmed up, the regulator USUALLY does not freeze
up enough to stall the engine, but under highly humid conditions it will
stumble a bit. I have quite a bit of experience with propane conversions on
onans, and they can be made to run quite well on it. But there IS
DEFINITELY some power loss over gasoline.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Apr 12, 2016 7:30 AM, "David H. Jarvis" wrote:

> First, the dry & boring physics of it all: The exact numbers seem to
> depend on which authoritative textbook you reference, but on average
> propane has
> about 25% less BTUs of energy per gallon than gasoline. So it stands to
> reason that you'd get 25% less horsepower on propane, all other things being
> equal. But there's the catch--all other things aren't equal. Liquid
> gasoline has to be atomized and mixed with air before it can be burned
> effectively
> in your engine. Engine builders know that in a carbureted engine a portion
> of that gasoline doesn't fully atomize and falls out of suspension, ending
> up in a puddle somewhere in the intake manifold. This is why the cylinders
> downhill from the carburetor tend to run richer than the others. (It's also
> one of the reasons why fuel-injected engines are more efficient than
> carbureted engines.)
>
> Propane, on the other hand, is a gas, gas, gas. It doesn't need to
> atomize, and it doesn't puddle. Propane is only 1.5 times heavier than air,
> so it
> can literally hang out all day. And because it stays mixed with the air
> coming in the intake, all the cylinders get an equal air/fuel mixture. In
> short, propane makes up for fewer BTUs by burning more efficiently and
> completely. So the real-world horsepower loss for a propane conversion on an
> unmodified engine is more like 5%-15%.
>
> Which brings us to the issue of naughty conversions. Propane engines
> require a different ignition advance curve compared to gasoline, typically
> advanced 5-15 degrees under 3,000 RPM. Additionally, propane has a higher
> octane rating than premium gasoline (about 105 compared to 91 or so), so you
> can build an engine with a higher compression ratio, making the engine
> even more efficient. The bottom line? An engine built with propane in mind
> can
> achieve roughly the same amount of horsepower--in some cases more--than a
> comparable gasoline carbureted engine.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298930 is a reply to message #298925] Tue, 12 April 2016 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Don't care about all that stuff 😄😄
Propane eats carbon
And all these features
http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2015/09/onan-gmc-propane-conversion.html




On Tuesday, April 12, 2016, James Hupy wrote:

> Yes, that is a bit factual. But an NH ONAN engine is not exactly a perfect
> example of an internal combustion engine perfectly suited for conversion,
> particularly by a carb spacer ring with a brass elbow fitting screwed into
> it to introduce propane. The fuel enrichment device (choke) consists of a
> spring loaded button that holds the diaphragm valve open when pressed with
> your thumb. Not exactly an automatic thermostatically controlled device.
> When the engine is fully warmed up, the regulator USUALLY does not freeze
> up enough to stall the engine, but under highly humid conditions it will
> stumble a bit. I have quite a bit of experience with propane conversions on
> onans, and they can be made to run quite well on it. But there IS
> DEFINITELY some power loss over gasoline.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC Royale 403
> On Apr 12, 2016 7:30 AM, "David H. Jarvis" > wrote:
>
>> First, the dry & boring physics of it all: The exact numbers seem to
>> depend on which authoritative textbook you reference, but on average
>> propane has
>> about 25% less BTUs of energy per gallon than gasoline. So it stands to
>> reason that you'd get 25% less horsepower on propane, all other things
> being
>> equal. But there's the catch--all other things aren't equal. Liquid
>> gasoline has to be atomized and mixed with air before it can be burned
>> effectively
>> in your engine. Engine builders know that in a carbureted engine a
> portion
>> of that gasoline doesn't fully atomize and falls out of suspension,
> ending
>> up in a puddle somewhere in the intake manifold. This is why the
> cylinders
>> downhill from the carburetor tend to run richer than the others. (It's
> also
>> one of the reasons why fuel-injected engines are more efficient than
>> carbureted engines.)
>>
>> Propane, on the other hand, is a gas, gas, gas. It doesn't need to
>> atomize, and it doesn't puddle. Propane is only 1.5 times heavier than
> air,
>> so it
>> can literally hang out all day. And because it stays mixed with the air
>> coming in the intake, all the cylinders get an equal air/fuel mixture. In
>> short, propane makes up for fewer BTUs by burning more efficiently and
>> completely. So the real-world horsepower loss for a propane conversion
> on an
>> unmodified engine is more like 5%-15%.
>>
>> Which brings us to the issue of naughty conversions. Propane engines
>> require a different ignition advance curve compared to gasoline,
> typically
>> advanced 5-15 degrees under 3,000 RPM. Additionally, propane has a higher
>> octane rating than premium gasoline (about 105 compared to 91 or so), so
> you
>> can build an engine with a higher compression ratio, making the engine
>> even more efficient. The bottom line? An engine built with propane in
> mind
>> can
>> achieve roughly the same amount of horsepower--in some cases more--than a
>> comparable gasoline carbureted engine.
>>
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Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298931 is a reply to message #298925] Tue, 12 April 2016 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Registered: April 2011
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Senior Member
James Hupy wrote on Tue, 12 April 2016 09:48
...I have quite a bit of experience with propane conversions on onans, and they can be made to run quite well on it. But there IS DEFINITELY some power loss over gasoline.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Apr 12, 2016 7:30 AM, "David H. Jarvis" wrote:
> So the real-world horsepower loss for a propane conversion on an unmodified engine is more like 5%-15%.
Unburned hydrocarbons add up to significant loss, but if the empirical observation is "DEFINITELY some power loss of be gasoline", it is safe to say a real world practical application is going to be in the 25% energy loss range.

It has been said that Onans stink. That might be due to unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust. I haven't been around one that is running enough to say. If propane helps that, it is a good thing.
Re: [GMCnet] Propane gen conversions [message #298941 is a reply to message #298931] Tue, 12 April 2016 12:17 Go to previous message
captjack is currently offline  captjack   United States
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Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
Senior Member
My experience hand starting a cheapo 8kW generator that I converted to propane is that it now starts on either the first or second pull, unnlike on gas, even after sitting for months. That is fortunate since I can hardly manage any more pulls on the 13 hp engine. PG&E is doing better, but living "in the sticks", I can be out for over a day when I lose power. I use about 0.8 gal/hour for my house and am guessing the GMC would use less. I've not experienced power loss w/ propane to be an issue.

Jim is right, I do push the button on the propane regulator to prime the engine with propane before I pull. I'm not sure how I'll handle that in an Onan conversion. I did note, however watching George Beckman start his Onan on propane that it started much more easily that mine does on gas and he didn't "push the button" so maybe it's not an issue, especially when you don't have to use the armstrong starting method.


Jack Christensen - K6ROW, '76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet", Sebastopol, CA
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