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[GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297938] Wed, 23 March 2016 21:34 Go to next message
glwgmc is currently offline  glwgmc   United States
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Registered: June 2004
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4000 mile report -

We are just back from snow birding in the SW and Mexico in the Clasco with its new FiTech EFI and Fuel Control system. It performed perfectly with nary a hiccup. The improvement in drivability, starting and altitude compensation is dramatic. I have no hesitation to recommend this upgrade to any of you. It is one of those all gain and no pain things. Installation of the throttle body is simple and fast with only two external sensors (O2 and water temp) and everything else built into the well machined throttle body. The Fuel Management system (AKA surge tank), also well machined, can be installed anywhere as the high pressure fuel pump is fully submerged inside and the low pressure inlet features a valve that mimics the float valve in the Rochester Qjet allowing it to be fed from any low pressure pump - your existing mechanical pump or a low pressure electric pusher pump. No need for return lines or special orientation. It is easy to install in a manner that will allow you to revert to the carb on the side of the road in less than 30 minutes without ever going under the coach. But, based on our experience in this first 4000 miles, I think it unlikely that this modern self-learining EFI will fail on the road, but if it does and you have a functioning carb with you, it is no more of an issue than a filed module.

I will be giving a detailed installation and experience report at the multi-GMC club rally at Coos Bay, OR, in early October. I urge all of you who can to attend as this may well be one of the larger GMC rallies in recent times since all of the west coast GMC clubs plus the CO bunch are all sponsoring and participating in putting on one event. Good stuff.

The oft asked question is whether you will reduce fuel consumption. The short answer is no. It takes a certain number of BTUs (amount of gas/alcohol) to move 12,000 pounds from place A to place B no matter how you introduce the fuel. If you have a properly functioning carb (are you really sure???) you will likely use the same amount of what passes for fuel today. Maybe a bit less because it is so much fun to drive a GMC like a modern car. Want to merge quickly onto a freeway? No problem, just put your foot down and be amazed. Want to go up a mountain grade at the same pace as the cars passing all the trucks? No problem, just put your foot down and be amazed. If you really want to reduce fuel usage, slow down. For every five miles an hour you reduce speed, expect to see a 0.5 MPG increase in fuel consumption. But, you won’t and neither do I……


Turn the key without even getting close to the accelerator pedal and the engine will start hot or cold. From there it just gets better. On this Clasco with its new S&J engine installed by Jim Hupy, I was surprised to find that it seems to run cooler. I know fuel plays an important and often forgotten role in keeping the internal engine temps in check, but have never seen such a dramatic example until this trip. From sea level to well over 4000 feet on slight grades and steep grades we never saw 200 degrees of water temp - and only shifted into second gear once, Oh, and remember, the FiTech unit is half the cost of any of the other alternatives and I personally would not install any of them without first installing the well engineered and constructed FiTech Fuel Management system. Usual disclosures, I am not paid, I own no stock, I have no dog in this hunt, etc., just a well satisfied customer.

There are those who claim to be able to increase mileage by up to 1 MPG by installing a knock sensor and running the distributor advance right up against it. I elected to have Dick P. curve a distributor for my needs and this FiTech EFI rather than rely on an aftermarket placement of a knock sensor. The FiTech unit can control spark, but I saw no great reason to have it do so.

Bottom line, if you have a known good, properly functioning Qjet that runs neither lean nor rich (again, are you really sure???) and a properly curved HEI distributor designed for our 12,000 pound coaches that you are sure never nuns retarded (are you really sure???), then keep what you have. If you have any questions then the FiTech EFI and Fuel Management system may be a good alternative. $1500 well spent from my POV. Hope to see you in Coos Bay, OR in early October.

Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR

glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com









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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297941 is a reply to message #297938] Wed, 23 March 2016 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Bovee is currently offline  Gary Bovee   United States
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Jerry,

Great report. I am looking forward to hearing your FiTech presentation at Coos Bay! I'm sure there are plenty of other GMCers who are anxious to hear it too and see your slideshow presentation.

See you in October.

Gary Bovee
1978 Royale
www.gmcidiotsguide.com

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Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297953 is a reply to message #297938] Thu, 24 March 2016 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhb1 is currently offline  jhb1   Canada
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Great report Jerry
I have ordered one to replace the AirSensor unit that I have had on my coach for the last 15 years. I will report on it when it arrives supposed to be mid or late April.


John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297968 is a reply to message #297938] Thu, 24 March 2016 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jon payne is currently offline  Jon payne   United States
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Thanks Jerry for sharing! I will be purchasing this system in a week or so. I see you will be making a presentation at Coos Bay but unfortunately a bit far for me to travel so I was wondering if you could share with me where mounted the command center? I was thinking I would mount somewhere in the vicinity of the passenger side of the radiator but don't know for sure if it will fit. Other than that it looks like the installation is a snap.

Thanks again,
Jon


Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297969 is a reply to message #297938] Thu, 24 March 2016 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Wagner is currently offline  Jim Wagner   United States
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Found this rebate on the FiTech unit.


http://fueledparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/FiTech-2016-Spring-Rebate-Coupon.pdf

Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh
76 GMC500
71 Vega355
69 Vette383
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297973 is a reply to message #297938] Thu, 24 March 2016 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
robertmcw is currently offline  robertmcw   United States
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Jerry,
That is great news. If the creek doesn't raise, AND if my father's estate is closed this year, I will contact you. I have put your link in my bookmarks.
RM
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297977 is a reply to message #297938] Thu, 24 March 2016 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norisan is currently offline  Norisan   Canada
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I've just finished my installation, and like you say it was a snap. After completion it started up on the second turn of the key, and within seconds was running smoothly. I don't have many miles on yet but it has required no adjustments so far. If I have any complaint it would be that the throttle is extremely stiff; I tried removing one of the two return springs, but then the throttle wouldn't close properly. I have now made a bracket that more than doubles the leverage on the throttle arm, and now pressing the gas peddle doesn't require both feet!
Driving impression - like Jerry said it greatly improves the drivability, taking off from traffic lights more like a car than a 12000 lb anvil, starting instantly and idling smoothly regardless of the temp. I would rate this as one of the better mods if your carb is ready for replacement.


Norm.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #297995 is a reply to message #297977] Thu, 24 March 2016 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
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Does anyone have a few photos? Particularly -- where are you installing the fuel sump?

Thank you,
Dennis


Norisan wrote on Thu, 24 March 2016 14:06
I've just finished my installation, and like you say it was a snap. After completion it started up on the second turn of the key, and within seconds was running smoothly. I don't have many miles on yet but it has required no adjustments so far. If I have any complaint it would be that the throttle is extremely stiff; I tried removing one of the two return springs, but then the throttle wouldn't close properly. I have now made a bracket that more than doubles the leverage on the throttle arm, and now pressing the gas peddle doesn't require both feet!
Driving impression - like Jerry said it greatly improves the drivability, taking off from traffic lights more like a car than a 12000 lb anvil, starting instantly and idling smoothly regardless of the temp. I would rate this as one of the better mods if your carb is ready for replacement.



Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298049 is a reply to message #297995] Fri, 25 March 2016 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Nutter is currently offline  Scott Nutter   United States
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What is the model number? Where do you buy them? Thanks, scott

Scott Nutter 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI Houston, Texas
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298082 is a reply to message #298049] Sat, 26 March 2016 07:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhb1 is currently offline  jhb1   Canada
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Scott Nutter wrote on Fri, 25 March 2016 22:36
What is the model number? Where do you buy them? Thanks, scott

Ordered mine from here
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/m20ProductDisplayView?pageSize=10&resultCatEntryType=&searchTerm=&catalogId=10002&langId =-1&productId=3539375&storeId=10001&sType=&pgGrp=search


John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298086 is a reply to message #298082] Sat, 26 March 2016 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Nutter is currently offline  Scott Nutter   United States
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I would assume this EFI mod would also solve any vapor lock problems?

Scott Nutter 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI Houston, Texas
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298093 is a reply to message #298086] Sat, 26 March 2016 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Scott Nutter wrote on Sat, 26 March 2016 09:05
I would assume this EFI mod would also solve any vapor lock problems?
Not necessarily. If you use a pump external to the fuel tanks to feed the surge tank, you could still get vapor lock in the low pressure section of the line between the tank and that pump.

The best that can be done to prevent vapor lock is a pump submerged in the gas in the tank. The only low pressure (vacuum) point in that system will be at the pump inlet, and it would be small compared to what it would be with an externally mounted pump.

If you experience vapor lock with a submerged pump, the universe is out to stop you so just crack open a beverage and wait for it to cool down.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298094 is a reply to message #297995] Sat, 26 March 2016 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norisan is currently offline  Norisan   Canada
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I made a bracket and mounted the fuel sump to the battery tray beside the battery - lots of cool air. I have pictures I could email. Trying to shrink them down so that I can post them.

Norm.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298095 is a reply to message #298094] Sat, 26 March 2016 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Norisan wrote on Sat, 26 March 2016 11:30
I made a bracket and mounted the fuel sump to the battery tray beside the battery - lots of cool air. I have pictures I could email. Trying to shrink them down so that I can post them.
You can't shrink them enough to put them here in the forum.

Post them to the photo site and then link to them as explained in this post:

http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=31075&start=0&rid=2083
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298098 is a reply to message #298094] Sat, 26 March 2016 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Fuel Injection does not solve vapor lock problems....
I have run EFI in different degrees of sophistication since 1990 and can
tell you it is not so, and anyone that says that is speaking from one
single experience.
It is all about addressing what causes the issue.
Yes in some way it can since you route the lines differently and avoid
heated area or shorten pulling the fuel longer distance and replacing old
cracked fuel lines.
I can tell you that on an ASE Test, that question if asked the answer would
be NO it does not eliminate vapor lock.
I am ASE certified and they have lot of trick questions.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Norman Allinson wrote:

> I made a bracket and mounted the fuel sump to the battery tray beside the
> battery - lots of cool air. I have pictures I could email. Trying to shrink
> them down so that I can post them.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298126 is a reply to message #298098] Sat, 26 March 2016 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
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jimk wrote on Sat, 26 March 2016 11:20

Yes in some way it can since you route the lines differently and avoid
heated area or shorten pulling the fuel longer distance and replacing old
cracked fuel lines.
I can tell you that on an ASE Test, that question if asked the answer would
be NO it does not eliminate vapor lock.
I am ASE certified and they have lot of trick questions.



Jim is right, the EF most of us are able to install in GMCs does is not a 100% cure for vapor lock.


To stop vapor lock we would have to do what automakers are doing:

1. Put pumps in the tank/s. ( We can do this and it all but eliminates the problem.. We have to keep our tanks pretty full because they are so shallow. Pumps can suck air on corners.)
2. Pressurize the fuel tank to probably more than we can, as our tanks are so flat they swell up like balloons .
3. Raise pressure to 40+ lbs.

Some are having good luck with 1 and 3 but I believe most are Caddy engines with fuel rails. GM did make a high-pressure throttle body before they moved to individual injectors.



'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George

[Updated on: Sun, 27 March 2016 14:50]

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Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298127 is a reply to message #298126] Sat, 26 March 2016 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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George,
I have run w/o a pump in the tank in weather over 100 degrees by routing
the fuel line straight out to the outside of the frame and attaching the
tank selector on the frame and immediately behind a large capacity fuel
filter then a 7psi rotary pump that pushes the fuel to the front where the
Hi pressure pump is located.
I run the same system on my non injected 403 as well.
Should one monitor the temperature between the frame, you'll find it can be
50-80 degrees warmer.
The vapor lock will happen more when you pull off the highway and get into
traffic.
Flow of fuel slows down considerably and now the heat build up will happen.
I have pulled into a fuel station and heard the fuel boiling in the tank so
I could not remove the cap without burping out as m vent system was
temporarily plugged.
I would then bleed off the pressure slowly for several minutes, then start
filling.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 8:27 PM, George Beckman wrote:

> jimk wrote on Sat, 26 March 2016 11:20
>> Yes in some way it can since you route the lines differently and avoid
>> heated area or shorten pulling the fuel longer distance and replacing
> old
>> cracked fuel lines.
>> I can tell you that on an ASE Test, that question if asked the answer
> would
>> be NO it does not eliminate vapor lock.
>> I am ASE certified and they have lot of trick questions.
>>
>> [/color]
>>
>> Jim is right, the EF most of us are able to install in GMCs does is not
> a 100% cure for vapor lock.
>>
>>
>> To stop vapor lock we would have to do what automakers are doing:
>>
>> 1. Put pumps in the tank/s. ( We can do this and it all but eliminates
> the problem.. We have to keep our tanks pretty full because they are so
>> shallow. Pumps can suck air on corners.)
>> 2. Pressurize the fuel tank to probably more than we can, as our tanks
> are so flat they swell up like balloons .
>> 3. Raise pressure to 40+ lbs.
>>
>> Some are having good luck with 1 and 3 but I believe most are Caddy
> engines with fuel rails. GM did make a high-pressure throttle body before
> they
>> moved to individual injectors.
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298128 is a reply to message #297938] Sat, 26 March 2016 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Senior Member
Oh,
Why did Ford and GM have testing locations in Arizona?
Because it gets hot and elevation can be high.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:

> I have logged over million miles on the GMC so I have experienced lot of
> things , specially in hot weather in the high altitude area of the West.
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Jim Kanomata
> wrote:
>
>> George,
>> I have run w/o a pump in the tank in weather over 100 degrees by routing
>> the fuel line straight out to the outside of the frame and attaching the
>> tank selector on the frame and immediately behind a large capacity fuel
>> filter then a 7psi rotary pump that pushes the fuel to the front where the
>> Hi pressure pump is located.
>> I run the same system on my non injected 403 as well.
>> Should one monitor the temperature between the frame, you'll find it can
>> be 50-80 degrees warmer.
>> The vapor lock will happen more when you pull off the highway and get
>> into traffic.
>> Flow of fuel slows down considerably and now the heat build up will
>> happen.
>> I have pulled into a fuel station and heard the fuel boiling in the tank
>> so I could not remove the cap without burping out as m vent system was
>> temporarily plugged.
>> I would then bleed off the pressure slowly for several minutes, then
>> start filling.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 8:27 PM, George Beckman
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jimk wrote on Sat, 26 March 2016 11:20
>>>> Yes in some way it can since you route the lines differently and avoid
>>>> heated area or shorten pulling the fuel longer distance and replacing
>>> old
>>>> cracked fuel lines.
>>>> I can tell you that on an ASE Test, that question if asked the answer
>>> would
>>>> be NO it does not eliminate vapor lock.
>>>> I am ASE certified and they have lot of trick questions.
>>>>
>>>> [/color]
>>>>
>>>> Jim is right, the EF most of us are able to install in GMCs does is
>>> not a 100% cure for vapor lock.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To stop vapor lock we would have to do what automakers are doing:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Put pumps in the tank/s. ( We can do this and it all but
>>> eliminates the problem.. We have to keep our tanks pretty full because they
>>> are so
>>>> shallow. Pumps can suck air on corners.)
>>>> 2. Pressurize the fuel tank to probably more than we can, as our tanks
>>> are so flat they swell up like balloons .
>>>> 3. Raise pressure to 40+ lbs.
>>>>
>>>> Some are having good luck with 1 and 3 but I believe most are Caddy
>>> engines with fuel rails. GM did make a high-pressure throttle body before
>>> they
>>>> moved to individual injectors.
>>>
>>> --
>>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> George
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298129 is a reply to message #297938] Sat, 26 March 2016 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
I have logged over million miles on the GMC so I have experienced lot of
things , specially in hot weather in the high altitude area of the West.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:

> George,
> I have run w/o a pump in the tank in weather over 100 degrees by routing
> the fuel line straight out to the outside of the frame and attaching the
> tank selector on the frame and immediately behind a large capacity fuel
> filter then a 7psi rotary pump that pushes the fuel to the front where the
> Hi pressure pump is located.
> I run the same system on my non injected 403 as well.
> Should one monitor the temperature between the frame, you'll find it can
> be 50-80 degrees warmer.
> The vapor lock will happen more when you pull off the highway and get into
> traffic.
> Flow of fuel slows down considerably and now the heat build up will happen.
> I have pulled into a fuel station and heard the fuel boiling in the tank
> so I could not remove the cap without burping out as m vent system was
> temporarily plugged.
> I would then bleed off the pressure slowly for several minutes, then start
> filling.
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 8:27 PM, George Beckman wrote:
>
>> jimk wrote on Sat, 26 March 2016 11:20
>>> Yes in some way it can since you route the lines differently and avoid
>>> heated area or shorten pulling the fuel longer distance and replacing
>> old
>>> cracked fuel lines.
>>> I can tell you that on an ASE Test, that question if asked the answer
>> would
>>> be NO it does not eliminate vapor lock.
>>> I am ASE certified and they have lot of trick questions.
>>>
>>> [/color]
>>>
>>> Jim is right, the EF most of us are able to install in GMCs does is not
>> a 100% cure for vapor lock.
>>>
>>>
>>> To stop vapor lock we would have to do what automakers are doing:
>>>
>>> 1. Put pumps in the tank/s. ( We can do this and it all but eliminates
>> the problem.. We have to keep our tanks pretty full because they are so
>>> shallow. Pumps can suck air on corners.)
>>> 2. Pressurize the fuel tank to probably more than we can, as our tanks
>> are so flat they swell up like balloons .
>>> 3. Raise pressure to 40+ lbs.
>>>
>>> Some are having good luck with 1 and 3 but I believe most are Caddy
>> engines with fuel rails. GM did make a high-pressure throttle body before
>> they
>>> moved to individual injectors.
>>
>> --
>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>> Best Wishes,
>> George
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
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Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI is the real deal [message #298195 is a reply to message #297938] Sun, 27 March 2016 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
kwharland is currently offline  kwharland   United States
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Before anyone pulls the trigger on a purchase, understand not everything is rosy....yet. Read this first;
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c1-and-c2-corvettes/3779829-fitech-tbi-install-in-65-a.html


1978 Eleganza II

[Updated on: Sun, 27 March 2016 21:18]

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