Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Generator for a 23' Coach
| Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297215] |
Sat, 12 March 2016 17:20  |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
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Hello to all,
Quick question. The Generac generator in my coach is a boat anchor at this stage and apparently it's virtually impossible to find parts for it. I am casting about for alternatives, and wonder if the Honda EB4010 is still the gold standard in terms of retro-fit generators for a 23 footer. I know that Johnny Bridges installed a Harbour Freight Predator. Good deal cheaper for sure - but it sounded like a fair amount of modding work was required, and I figure it will be easier to get Honda parts up here in Canada.
I have found a used EV4010 (2008) for approx. $700 US plus shipping.
Has anyone experimented with the newer Honda air-cooled ones with built in invertors? Or with the new Onan 2800 watt Generator?
I had a big Onan in my SOB class C, and hardly ever used the thing, so I don't want to spend a fortune. But something relatively quiet would be nice, and my understanding is that the Honda is a bit quieter than an Onan.
Thanks on advance
Gordon Gibson
1976 23' Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297217 is a reply to message #297215] |
Sat, 12 March 2016 17:28  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Honda operates at 3600 rpm, so noise level is a bit higher. I don't think that either of the 2 Honda EV series are as quiet as the suitcase style gensets. Further, I do not believe that the EV family will fit in a 23' without genset hole remodeling.
My Honda ev6010 takes up almost the entire genset compartment in my 26' . The ev4010 is very near the same size as the ev6010, so no savings going with the 4kw versus the 6kw.
Johnny Bridges has done extensive remodeling of a Chinese-made genset into his 23'. Check back further in the forum for his saga.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297219 is a reply to message #297215] |
Sat, 12 March 2016 17:44 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
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Gordon I believe JimB at the Coop has installed a few of the EV4010's in 23 footers. Give him a call I am sure he can help. I have installed in my coach if you wait till mid April you can pass by and listen to it running inside the coach. I can tell you it is quieter than the Onan troll I threw out I can now sleep in the coach with it running and that it was not possible with the troll.
HTH
gibsongo wrote on Sat, 12 March 2016 18:20Hello to all,
Quick question. The Generac generator in my coach is a boat anchor at this stage and apparently it's virtually impossible to find parts for it. I am casting about for alternatives, and wonder if the Honda EB4010 is still the gold standard in terms of retro-fit generators for a 23 footer. I know that Johnny Bridges installed a Harbour Freight Predator. Good deal cheaper for sure - but it sounded like a fair amount of modding work was required, and I figure it will be easier to get Honda parts up here in Canada.
I have found a used EV4010 (2008) for approx. $700 US plus shipping.
Has anyone experimented with the newer Honda air-cooled ones with built in invertors? Or with the new Onan 2800 watt Generator?
I had a big Onan in my SOB class C, and hardly ever used the thing, so I don't want to spend a fortune. But something relatively quiet would be nice, and my understanding is that the Honda is a bit quieter than an Onan.
Thanks on advance
Gordon Gibson
1976 23' Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297229 is a reply to message #297226] |
Sat, 12 March 2016 21:32 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
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Powwerjon,
Good questions for sure.
The Generac cranks but doesn't fire. Frank Borrmann (Borrmann Garage, Bluevale Ontario) who is working on the coach, thinks that the problem is the ignition stator - which sounds like a cheap and easy fix. But he has called his contacts and hasn't found a source. I have also searched the net and found a few sites with Generac parts - but the question is: for which models. I gather this particular model is a retrofit by Cinnabar who updated the coach roughly 25 years ago. I don't know the exact model but when I look at the parts shown on the web sites....they don't look familiar (i.e. they don't look like what I see on this generator). The other problem is that even if we get it to fire, it will probably need a carb rebuilt etc. etc because I gather it hasn't run in a decade or so. And then, one it finally runs.....the big question is will it produce power???
While I am adamantly against the throw-away approach to vehicle maintenance, with something this old you quickly bump up against the worries of throwing good money after bad. If $700 buys me something that works, and has a readily available supply of parts for the next decade or so, it might not be a bad approach.
Gordon
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297234 is a reply to message #297229] |
Sat, 12 March 2016 22:53 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Gordon,
I endured the 4kW Onan for about 9 years. There never was anything on it I
couldn't easily repair. But there was always something that NEEDED
repair. So, I finally installed a nice quiet new Generac which fit pretty
nicely in the hole -- which nothing else on the market would do. Here's
the album for that:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3781-generac-impact-36g-plus-ii-installation.html
That was a nice clean installation and it ran very quietly and smoothly.
IIRC, that Generac had 50 hours on it when it had its first major
breakdown. I was able to repair that by replacing one electronic
component, based on a comparison to another GMCer's Generac, which he
foolishly followed my lead into.
At about 75 hours, another, much more difficult and expensive failure
occurred. So, after about 2-1/2 years, I gave up and visited Lowes, where
I found an electric-start Troy-Bilt 5kW contractor's generator on sale.
Here's the album on my installation of that one:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5330-troybilt-generator-installation.html
I've never had one moment's problem with that generator. It's pretty noisy
outside, probably more so than the old Onan, but it's not obtrusive inside
the coach, probably thanks to the heavy insulation I installed around the
compartment in 1998. We don't usually run it for more than an hour or
less, during mid-day stops. But it has run for 24 hours on a couple of
occasions with no problem at all. It will pull every electrical appliance
in the coach at once. When the A/C kicks on, the generator's tone barely
changes -- unlike the Onan or the Generac which always "grunted". I'm more
than happy with this option after about 6-1/2 years.
Oh yeah -- it DOES start & stop from inside, just like its predecessors. I
had to remove the redundant pull starter for space reasons, but I could
quickly reinstall it if needed (IF I could find it).
HTH,
Ken H.
On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Gordon Gibson
wrote:
> Powwerjon,
>
> Good questions for sure.
>
> The Generac cranks but doesn't fire. Frank Borrmann (Borrmann Garage,
> Bluevale Ontario) who is working on the coach, thinks that the problem is
> the
> ignition stator - which sounds like a cheap and easy fix. But he has
> called his contacts and hasn't found a source. I have also searched the
> net and
> found a few sites with Generac parts - but the question is: for which
> models. I gather this particular model is a retrofit by Cinnabar who
> updated the
> coach roughly 25 years ago. I don't know the exact model but when I look
> at the parts shown on the web sites....they don't look familiar (i.e. they
> don't look like what I see on this generator). The other problem is that
> even if we get it to fire, it will probably need a carb rebuilt etc. etc
> because I gather it hasn't run in a decade or so. And then, one it
> finally runs.....the big question is will it produce power???
>
> While I am adamantly against the throw-away approach to vehicle
> maintenance, with something this old you quickly bump up against the
> worries of
> throwing good money after bad. If $700 buys me something that works, and
> has a readily available supply of parts for the next decade or so, it might
> not be a bad approach.
>
> Gordon
> --
> 1976 23" Norris Upfit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297247 is a reply to message #297234] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 08:33 |
Jerry Wheeler
Messages: 246
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I installed my Generac in 2000; it would crank and crank and never fire
after I had let it sit for months. I ended up buying a new carb for it and
it started right away. I did this twice (bought 2 carbs). I finally got
wise and installed a gas line cut off switch and then, for long storage,
would cut the fuel off and let the Generac run until it ran out of fuel. I
haven't had any problems since.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 11:53 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Gordon,
>
> I endured the 4kW Onan for about 9 years. There never was anything on it I
> couldn't easily repair. But there was always something that NEEDED
> repair. So, I finally installed a nice quiet new Generac which fit pretty
> nicely in the hole -- which nothing else on the market would do. Here's
> the album for that:
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3781-generac-impact-36g-plus-ii-installation.html
>
> That was a nice clean installation and it ran very quietly and smoothly.
> IIRC, that Generac had 50 hours on it when it had its first major
> breakdown. I was able to repair that by replacing one electronic
> component, based on a comparison to another GMCer's Generac, which he
> foolishly followed my lead into.
>
> At about 75 hours, another, much more difficult and expensive failure
> occurred. So, after about 2-1/2 years, I gave up and visited Lowes, where
> I found an electric-start Troy-Bilt 5kW contractor's generator on sale.
> Here's the album on my installation of that one:
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5330-troybilt-generator-installation.html
>
> I've never had one moment's problem with that generator. It's pretty noisy
> outside, probably more so than the old Onan, but it's not obtrusive inside
> the coach, probably thanks to the heavy insulation I installed around the
> compartment in 1998. We don't usually run it for more than an hour or
> less, during mid-day stops. But it has run for 24 hours on a couple of
> occasions with no problem at all. It will pull every electrical appliance
> in the coach at once. When the A/C kicks on, the generator's tone barely
> changes -- unlike the Onan or the Generac which always "grunted". I'm more
> than happy with this option after about 6-1/2 years.
>
> Oh yeah -- it DOES start & stop from inside, just like its predecessors. I
> had to remove the redundant pull starter for space reasons, but I could
> quickly reinstall it if needed (IF I could find it).
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:32 PM, Gordon Gibson gordon.gibson@videotron.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Powwerjon,
>>
>> Good questions for sure.
>>
>> The Generac cranks but doesn't fire. Frank Borrmann (Borrmann Garage,
>> Bluevale Ontario) who is working on the coach, thinks that the problem is
>> the
>> ignition stator - which sounds like a cheap and easy fix. But he has
>> called his contacts and hasn't found a source. I have also searched the
>> net and
>> found a few sites with Generac parts - but the question is: for which
>> models. I gather this particular model is a retrofit by Cinnabar who
>> updated the
>> coach roughly 25 years ago. I don't know the exact model but when I look
>> at the parts shown on the web sites....they don't look familiar (i.e.
> they
>> don't look like what I see on this generator). The other problem is that
>> even if we get it to fire, it will probably need a carb rebuilt etc. etc
>> because I gather it hasn't run in a decade or so. And then, one it
>> finally runs.....the big question is will it produce power???
>>
>> While I am adamantly against the throw-away approach to vehicle
>> maintenance, with something this old you quickly bump up against the
>> worries of
>> throwing good money after bad. If $700 buys me something that works, and
>> has a readily available supply of parts for the next decade or so, it
> might
>> not be a bad approach.
>>
>> Gordon
>> --
>> 1976 23" Norris Upfit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297251 is a reply to message #297247] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 09:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jerry,
WIthout knowing for sure which Generac Gordon has, my derogatory remarks
are aimed at the model 36G, which was at the time the only one that would
fit a standard 23' compartment. I know of at least two others, Rick Denny
& Johnny Bridges, whose experiences with that model resemble mine: It's an
overly complicated, poorly designed, difficult to service piece of JUNK.
Apparently even Generac agrees since they stopped selling them 2-3 years
ago.
Some Generac's are apparently great, just NOT the 36 series.
Ken H.
On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Jerry Wheeler wrote:
> I installed my Generac in 2000; it would crank and crank and never fire
> after I had let it sit for months. I ended up buying a new carb for it and
> it started right away. I did this twice (bought 2 carbs). I finally got
> wise and installed a gas line cut off switch and then, for long storage,
> would cut the fuel off and let the Generac run until it ran out of fuel. I
> haven't had any problems since.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297264 is a reply to message #297215] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 13:43 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Guys
Think my model is older than the 36G. I haven't yet invested the time to figure out how to post pictures to this forum (...I will, at some point in the not too distant future), but when I troll the net for pictures, what I have looks like the Generac MC35 in this you tube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y33niqVlCwU). Anyone know of a reliable source of parts for a Generac this old?
Ken - too bad about the 36G - lots of room and the installation you did was beautiful. I am looking for something that is more or less "drop in" at this point, since I don't have fabricating skills or tools. I presume that the new Onans Applied is selling (a 2800 watt one for the 23') would fit this description. But they are pricey (close to $3K shipped), and according to the specs, noisy (3600 RPM just like the Honda, but 70 DB rather than 56). Also, 2800 watts might be a little tight.
Gordon
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297265 is a reply to message #297264] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 13:59 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir, that is the gen that came in your coach new. They were in all Midas (Norris) finished coaches. The one in my 76 Crestmont is like yours with a sideways rear tub. The gen compartment is wooden and is smaller than the metal boxes in 23' models with the Onan.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297268 is a reply to message #297264] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 14:15 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gordon,
Good luck finding a "drop-in" or anything close to it. Especially if, as
Chuck suggests, your compartment is even smaller than that in the Coachmen
fitted Birchavens. Enlarging the compartment to fit most generators would
be a BIG undertaking on every 23' I've seen.
Good luck with your parts search.
Ken H.
On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Gordon Gibson
wrote:
> Hi Guys
>
> Think my model is older than the 36G. I haven't yet invested the time to
> figure out how to post pictures to this forum (...I will, at some point in
> the not too distant future), but when I troll the net for pictures, what I
> have looks like the Generac MC35 in this you tube video
> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y33niqVlCwU). Anyone know of a reliable
> source of parts for a Generac this old?
>
> Ken - too bad about the 36G - lots of room and the installation you did
> was beautiful. I am looking for something that is more or less "drop in" at
> this point, since I don't have fabricating skills or tools. I presume that
> the new Onans Applied is selling (a 2800 watt one for the 23') would fit
> this description. But they are pricey (close to $3K shipped), and
> according to the specs, noisy (3600 RPM just like the Honda, but 70 DB
> rather than
> 56). Also, 2800 watts might be a little tight.
>
>
>
> Gordon
> --
> 1976 23" Norris Upfit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297271 is a reply to message #297268] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 14:35 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chuck
Don't suppose you would know the dimensions of the generator compartment on the Norris? I'd go and measure mine....but the coach is 600 miles from here.
Gordon
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297289 is a reply to message #297215] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 19:44 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If, like me you have a rear bath Norris upfit 23', the Hondoo isn't going to fit... And it will require major surgery to make it fit. Actually, according to my measurements it will sit in the bay, but you can't >get< it in the bay. I've a working 36G which I don't like, and a 4KW Kohler 'thumoper' which I think will fit, albeit just barely. Since it's an 1800 RPM set, it's quieter than the heathen chinee ones Ken and I have.. Ken's being a bit quieter cos it's a bit smaller. You do hafta take them out of the frame they come in and build mounts for them... and add a fuel pump. All fairly easy.. Ken's is even on slides. I'm going to make a couple of changes on mine which will require it to come out, at which point I'll probably add some insulation to the bay and a couple of pieces of tin to direct airflow. It isn't noisy enough to notice at freeway speeds, which is where it sees the most use, running the roof AC unit(s) when traveling. Given the shop manual, I suspect your Junkerac would be reasonably easy to heal. The 36G ones aren't - check the thread on the new genset I started. Basically they're a poor iteration of a fairly good idea.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297294 is a reply to message #297271] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 19:58 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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I'm thinking the depth is the issue. At least 2 ". The side (back) is actually open so if you had to you can rope the Generac flywheel and pull the rope out the bottom. I have a Birch with the Onan I was gonna put in mine. The Birch has a metal box put in fron the inside with a brace on the frame rail. The bath tub across the back in the Crestmont is in the way. I have not took my counter top off to see what is there. I had to replace the elec fuel pump on mine but it still works. I do have to choke it manually. Gonna do an elec solenoid powered off the starter motor. It is 3600 rpm and loud.
gibsongo wrote on Sun, 13 March 2016 15:35Chuck
Don't suppose you would know the dimensions of the generator compartment on the Norris? I'd go and measure mine....but the coach is 600 miles from here.
Gordon
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297304 is a reply to message #297215] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 20:54 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Mine is a side bath, so presumably adding depth to the generator compartment simply eats into the storage capacity available under the bed. Apparently the minimum dimensions for a cabinet for the Honda are 26.22" x 20.19" x 14.60". Think I am OK in terms of width and heighth - so it appears to be a question of how much I am willing to give up in the "bedroom".
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: Generator for a 23' Coach [message #297305 is a reply to message #297215] |
Sun, 13 March 2016 21:14 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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IIRC, JimB said an EV installation in a 23 required an additional 4" out of the aisle.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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