Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » external engine oil cooler parts
external engine oil cooler parts [message #296639] |
Thu, 03 March 2016 12:15 |
KB
Messages: 1262 Registered: September 2009
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I'm preparing to do an engine rebuild quite soon so need to figure out
how to do an external oil cooler and exactly what parts are required.
I've searched the discussions here on the topic but haven't
found anything definite on the bypass question so far. Seems like
if there is a bypass with a 40 year old spring or such and you add an
even longer oil cooler path, you might have problems. So is there a
need or a way to fix the bypass to work with an external cooler?
Any consensus on adding a cooler with an integrated fan vs a passive cooler?
Also, just the simple plumbing question of how to get around
the radiator to an external cooler. I thought of getting longer
hard lines made so the ends reach closer to the back of the radiator,
and then using the existing flexible lines to the new cooler.
Has anybody here done that? Any other suggestions on how to accomplish
the task?
Any tips or suggestions on specific coolers or parts would also be appreciated.
thanks,
Karen
1975 26' yard ornament
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296642 is a reply to message #296639] |
Thu, 03 March 2016 14:14 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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If you just feel like you got to have an external cooler, your local hydraulic shop will make you a set of hoses to your spec - at least the one in Gainesville will. Take them one of the flex lines and tell them 'I want these fittings on a hose this long'. Plug the radiator cooler, keep the stock lines, and you can revert to stock alongside the highway if you hafta.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] external engine oil cooler parts [message #296644 is a reply to message #296639] |
Thu, 03 March 2016 15:23 |
jimk
Messages: 6734 Registered: July 2006 Location: Belmont, CA
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Karen,
We use the B & M 70273
You'll need to get additional brass fittings.
Be sure to mount it close to the radiator to let the fan pull the air
through it.
If you want , we have mounting material here you can have n/c.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, KB wrote:
> I'm preparing to do an engine rebuild quite soon so need to figure out
> how to do an external oil cooler and exactly what parts are required.
>
> I've searched the discussions here on the topic but haven't
> found anything definite on the bypass question so far. Seems like
> if there is a bypass with a 40 year old spring or such and you add an
> even longer oil cooler path, you might have problems. So is there a
> need or a way to fix the bypass to work with an external cooler?
>
> Any consensus on adding a cooler with an integrated fan vs a passive
> cooler?
>
> Also, just the simple plumbing question of how to get around
> the radiator to an external cooler. I thought of getting longer
> hard lines made so the ends reach closer to the back of the radiator,
> and then using the existing flexible lines to the new cooler.
> Has anybody here done that? Any other suggestions on how to accomplish
> the task?
>
> Any tips or suggestions on specific coolers or parts would also be
> appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1975 26' yard ornament
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Re: [GMCnet] external engine oil cooler parts [message #296645 is a reply to message #296644] |
Thu, 03 March 2016 15:46 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005 Registered: August 2004 Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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If you visit men's malls. you will find GM brand vehicles that have this problem nicely solved. Heavy Duty pick-ups and Suburban types have external engine oil cooler and/or external transmission coolers installed by the factory.
The transmission cooler is a simple finned U-shaped one and the Engine oil cooler is a flat blade type. They are attached to a U-shaped square tubing frame that holds them in front of the radiator.
This design would be easily transformed to the GMC.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296676 is a reply to message #296639] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 00:41 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Bummer Karen if I remember right you put that motor in a short time ago. I capped of my existing cooler and used a 70273 cooler as Jim suggests. I mounted mine in front of the a/c condenser and secured it to the cross frame directly under it and braced the top to the bottom of the blower housing.it is about 4 or so inches in front of the a/c coil. I picked up a small electric radiator fan at the wrecking yard to blow more air thru it. I ran 5/8" copper refrigerant tubing a short distance with copper elbows terminating with 1/2" female pipe fittings and connected it to JR's stainless lines with 1 line shortened and straight fittings replacing both 90 degree fittings. I doubled up the spring in the filter bypass to raise the relief pressure from 5 psi to 10 psi. When you rebuild your heads don't let the shop put solid bronze guides in the exhausts or they will seize the valve stems on a long mountain grade you don't want the nightmare I reciently experienced . My cooler and associated piping required an extra 1 1/2 to 2 quarts of oil on initial fill up.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
[Updated on: Fri, 04 March 2016 00:47] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] external engine oil cooler parts [message #296713 is a reply to message #296698] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 15:06 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Karen,
Here you go!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6398-455-2f-403-engine-oil-flow-path.html
To get it out you have to drill the four stake points out and pry the steel ring out. When you put it back in I would suggest using
a modicum of hi-temp epoxy as well as re-staking.
BTW while I am in the USA I am going down to Tom Pryor's home and do some testing on this valve.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 4:02 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] external engine oil cooler parts
Hey Roy! Nice to hear from you; haven't seen you around much and have been wondering
how you're doing. Is your engine fixed now? I was really sorry to hear that
you were having problems.
Thanks for the ideas, that helps. Do you have any details on the filter bypass
springs you used, or what was involved to get the thing apart? Guess it'll probably
make more sense when I have it in my hand to look at.
Yup, the camshaft failed on this engine. It was probably my fault, but it could
also be the el-cheapo camshaft that was used (I should have done my homework better
on the parts). I'll know better next time.
I'm fortunate to have expert help available for a little while on this, but
have to hustle to make sure all our ducks are lined up before then and get as
much work done in advance as possible.
thanks,
Karen 1975 26' yard ornament
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] external engine oil cooler parts [message #296716 is a reply to message #296713] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 16:01 |
skip2
Messages: 544 Registered: September 2011 Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
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Rob you going to be at Tom Pryors place? I tried to find it one day when I was in his community doing some work at the clubhouse, no luck. Met him at the auto parts store up the road awhile back. Like to meet you and him again and see his ongoing project when you get in the area, I'm probably only 5 miles from him.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296717 is a reply to message #296639] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 16:08 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I would think that too much oil cooling would be more damaging to the engine than not enough. Oil needs to be up around 220 to burn (boil) off moisture. As far as contributing to overall cooling system capacity it does take a lot of heat out of the engine but mounted in front of the rad it puts it right back in to the system.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: [GMCnet] external engine oil cooler parts [message #296721 is a reply to message #296716] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 17:06 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Skip,
I am scheduled to fly into Orlando on Sunday, June 12. Tom and I have allocated from Monday, June 13th through Thursday, June 16th
for the testing. We'll give you a call when we're at a point we feel comfortable showing you what we've accomplished.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Hartline
Rob you going to be at Tom Pryors place? I tried to find it one day when I was in his community doing some work at the clubhouse, no
luck. Met him at the auto parts store up the road awhile back. Like to meet you and him again and see his ongoing project when you
get in the area, I'm probably only 5 miles from him.
Skip
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296724 is a reply to message #296698] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 19:00 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
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Hey Karen we tried to make treasure island last year but had to turn back as the cam was a tooth off and the exhaust valves were also starting to stick but I didn't know it yet. Needed a degree wheel to figure out the dots on the cam gear weren't accurate. The exhaust guides were sticking to the valves really bad on our winter run south it wasn't a fun trip I pulled the heads in a campground and had the correct iron guides installed to replace the bronze ones. It ran ok on the return trip. Some folks will say I shouldn't have increased the bypass pressure but the poppet valves I have seen that were in gmc motor home relief valves were all badly worn and some were stuck partly open leading me to believe the dang thing is bypassing way too much. If you want to increase the bypass pressure from the stock 5 lbs relief to 10 lbs you could remove the keeper by prying it out and adding a similar second spring inside the existing one and re staking the keeper. You could also get a Delco oil relief valve from summit racing for $9 part #nal 25161284take the spring out of it and use the spring only to replace the motor home one . You will also have to restake it in the bypass housing. Just make sure the poppet opens at 10 psi when you push on it. Good luck on your cam replacement I used a comp cam flat tappet cam kit xe250h-10 (42 220 4) high torque cam that was recommended to me at the time by Dick Patterson for carbureted engines in 2006. When I tore the engine down last year due to a crank shaft thrust bearing failure the cam and lifters still checked out good so I put it back in the engine after 12,000 miles.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296729 is a reply to message #296639] |
Fri, 04 March 2016 20:44 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Rob what I meant was the oil cooler pulls heat out of the engine via the oil but then that hot air flows into over the radiator, some of which reenters the system via raised coolant temps durring max system loads. But the same thing happens with the in tank setup. I would think in very cold weather once the stat is partly open, the oil would not be cooled as much as the air stream cooler. Whereas going down the road in cold weather you could overcool the oil, over reducing piston temps, loosing some MPG.
Interested to see the test results on the bypass valve(s). I was looking at the cooler addaptor for a Turbo Regal and it's a smaller version of our same unit for a PF47. There is another bypass valve in the cooler adaptor. Interested to know the total count and when they open and the effects of heavier 15w/50 oils some lean towards especially at cold startup.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296732 is a reply to message #296729] |
Sat, 05 March 2016 00:36 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 04 March 2016 18:44Rob what I meant was the oil cooler pulls heat out of the engine via the oil but then that hot air flows into over the radiator, some of which reenters the system via raised coolant temps durring max system loads. But the same thing happens with the in tank setup. I would think in very cold weather once the stat is partly open, the oil would not be cooled as much as the air stream cooler. Whereas going down the road in cold weather you could overcool the oil, over reducing piston temps, loosing some MPG.
Interested to see the test results on the bypass valve(s). I was looking at the cooler addaptor for a Turbo Regal and it's a smaller version of our same unit for a PF47. There is another bypass valve in the cooler adaptor. Interested to know the total count and when they open and the effects of heavier 15w/50 oils some lean towards especially at cold startup.
I have a toggle switch on my oil cooler fan. I also have a temperature gage in the oil pan. This January and February with ambient air in the 30 degree range my oil temperature was in the 200 degree + range. I needed to turn the fan on a lot to keep the oil below 250 degrees. Where I generally travel my oil is almost always hotter then I would like it to be. Believe me it isn't fun climbing mountain passes with a 3000 lb Toyota in tow. 15/50 Mobil 1 is my oil of choice but it is only cold once a day on initial start up. The scenery is pretty out here but I sure would like to trade for some flat land cruising and 8 mpg rather then 5mpg.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296737 is a reply to message #296639] |
Sat, 05 March 2016 09:56 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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200 is way too cold and not above boiling point of condensate water. Remember, each gallon of fuel you burn produces over 1 gal of water combining hydrocarbons with H and O2 from the air. Also oil splash cools pistons. Cool pistons absorb more heat energy that .could otherwise be used to push them down and do work. Loss of some MPG.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296741 is a reply to message #296737] |
Sat, 05 March 2016 11:12 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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JohnL455 wrote on Sat, 05 March 2016 07:56200 is way too cold and not above boiling point of condensate water. Remember, each gallon of fuel you burn produces over 1 gal of water combining hydrocarbons with H and O2 from the air. Also oil splash cools pistons. Cool pistons absorb more heat energy that .could otherwise be used to push them down and do work. Loss of some MPG.
200 + !! ,believe me my oil is never cold when I am towing in these mountains winter or summer I always worry about it being too hot. Flat land with no toad would be a whole other story.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: external engine oil cooler parts [message #296743 is a reply to message #296639] |
Sat, 05 March 2016 12:45 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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My point is that with a front mount oil cooler, it's great pulling a grade on a hot day, but a large percentage of time flat land cruising you may be over cooling the oil causing extra engine wear. On cars like the LT5 Corvette ZR1 with a huge ftont mount oil cooler, GM addressed this with a thermostaticly controled oil cooler path.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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