Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Half shaft alignment observations
| Half shaft alignment observations [message #296361] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 19:15  |
dr.diesel
Messages: 85
Registered: April 2015
Location: The Haute, Indiana
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Something else I recently completed this winter was the Manny 1-Ton front end conversion. Something I noticed during work was the mating flanges were not properly aligned. I took a quick video to further illustrate:
https://youtu.be/_mq8KzvJ1dA
The inside CV houses quite a bit of mass, upwards of 50+ MPH generated noticeable vibration. I'd thought there was an inside centering ring on the half shaft for alignment, but i was wrong, just the bolts are used for alignment. I've not yet attempted to loosen the bolts and center, I have doubts that even if I do it will stay in that position for long.
Any thoughts?
77 Kingsley
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| Re: Half shaft alignment observations [message #296365 is a reply to message #296361] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 19:45  |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
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My one ton came from Applied GMC back in early 2011. The kit came with a pair of rings designed to center the inner CV with the drive flange.
However the inner diameter of the rings was a tad too small to fit the CV. So I simply cut the ring to allow it to expand slightly. I never checked it for alignment as you have, but I can't say there is any vibration. Its been a great upgrade with must be over 12,000 miles on it.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
[Updated on: Sun, 28 February 2016 19:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296368 is a reply to message #296361] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 19:45 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Andy,
Have you shown that to, and discussed it with, Manny? It's been several
years since I installed an early 1-Ton, so CRS may come into play; but, I
don't remember any such misalignment. And I've certainly experienced no
adverse vibration during the several tens of thousands of miles I've run
from coast to coast at up to 90+ mph.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Andy wrote:
> Something else I recently completed this winter was the Manny 1-Ton front
> end conversion. Something I noticed during work was the mating flanges were
> not properly aligned. I took a quick video to further illustrate:
>
> https://youtu.be/_mq8KzvJ1dA
>
> The inside CV houses quite a bit of mass, upwards of 50+ MPH generated
> noticeable vibration. I'd thought there was an inside centering ring on the
> half shaft for alignment, but i was wrong, just the bolts are used for
> alignment. I've not yet attempted to loosen the bolts and center, I have
> doubts that even if I do it will stay in that position for long.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296370 is a reply to message #296368] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 20:00 |
dr.diesel
Messages: 85
Registered: April 2015
Location: The Haute, Indiana
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Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 28 February 2016 20:45
Have you shown that to, and discussed it with, Manny?
Yes Sir. Both the drivers and passenger side show about the same amount of mis-alignment. Manny commented that the bolts are the alignment point, there is no other alignment hubs built-in.
His suggestion was to loosen the bolts and attempt to re-center.
77 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296372 is a reply to message #296370] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 20:17 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Andy,
While, as I said, I don't remember the hubs not being self-centering,
Bruce's note does stimulate some idle neurons. If I were faced with the
situation now, I'd measure the ID of the flange and the OD of the CV hub
and decide whether to have a ring machined, or find an O-ring, of
appropriate dimensions to center them while the bolts were tightened. The
relationship WILL NOT change as long as the bolts stay tight, as they MUST
(use blue locktite). I DO recall that I didn't like the bolts Manny
provided (the heads seemed to strip easily) so I installed Grade 8+ socket
headed bolts from McMaster-Carr.
I'm sure you'll work this minor problem out and be VERY happy with the
1-Ton.
Ken H.
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Andy wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 28 February 2016 20:45
>> Have you shown that to, and discussed it with, Manny?
>
>
> Yes Sir. Both the drivers and passenger side show about the same amount
> of mis-alignment. Manny commented that the bolts are the alignment point,
> there is no other alignment hubs built-in.
>
> His suggestion was to loosen the bolts and attempt to re-center.
> --
> 77 Kingsley
>
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296373 is a reply to message #296372] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 20:26 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Andy, I watched your video, and it looks to me like the flange is not
concentric. Put a pointer on the outside of the flange , and turn the shaft
by hand. If it turns out that the flange does not turn true, you might have
to reposition or replace the half shaft.
Jim Hupy
On Feb 28, 2016 6:18 PM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:
> Andy,
>
> While, as I said, I don't remember the hubs not being self-centering,
> Bruce's note does stimulate some idle neurons. If I were faced with the
> situation now, I'd measure the ID of the flange and the OD of the CV hub
> and decide whether to have a ring machined, or find an O-ring, of
> appropriate dimensions to center them while the bolts were tightened. The
> relationship WILL NOT change as long as the bolts stay tight, as they MUST
> (use blue locktite). I DO recall that I didn't like the bolts Manny
> provided (the heads seemed to strip easily) so I installed Grade 8+ socket
> headed bolts from McMaster-Carr.
>
> I'm sure you'll work this minor problem out and be VERY happy with the
> 1-Ton.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Andy wrote:
>
>> Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 28 February 2016 20:45
>>> Have you shown that to, and discussed it with, Manny?
>>
>>
>> Yes Sir. Both the drivers and passenger side show about the same amount
>> of mis-alignment. Manny commented that the bolts are the alignment
> point,
>> there is no other alignment hubs built-in.
>>
>> His suggestion was to loosen the bolts and attempt to re-center.
>> --
>> 77 Kingsley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Half shaft alignment observations [message #296376 is a reply to message #296365] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 20:38 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
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RF_Burns wrote on Sun, 28 February 2016 20:45My one ton came from Applied GMC back in early 2011. The kit came with a pair of rings designed to center the inner CV with the drive flange.
However the inner diameter of the rings was a tad too small to fit the CV. So I simply cut the ring to allow it to expand slightly. I never checked it for alignment as you have, but I can't say there is any vibration. Its been a great upgrade with must be over 12,000 miles on it.
Bruce,
I remember reading your post about cutting the rings when I was doing my research for installing the one ton. I was expecting that I would have to as well, but mine fit with no cutting required. Are the rings no longer used in the ones currently sold?
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Half shaft alignment observations [message #296379 is a reply to message #296361] |
Sun, 28 February 2016 21:17 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
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Richard,
I purchased mine right about this time of the year in 2011, so that was 5 years ago. I suspect my ring size issue was either a fluke, or was corrected shortly after that time. I don't have any experience with Manny's kit, but he has sold lots of them.
The rings were not very thick from poor memory, certainly under 0.1". Obviously in my case there was a space as the CV's fit into the flange with no issues.
Ken's idea would be a quick easy solution.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: Half shaft alignment observations [message #296414 is a reply to message #296361] |
Mon, 29 February 2016 12:52 |
bwevers
Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose
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Maybe the bolt shank diameter is too small.
Are the bolts made for TH425?
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
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| Re: Half shaft alignment observations [message #296426 is a reply to message #296425] |
Mon, 29 February 2016 18:08 |
dr.diesel
Messages: 85
Registered: April 2015
Location: The Haute, Indiana
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A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 29 February 2016 19:02Its not supposed to rely on the bolts to align it. The one-ton inner joint hub alignment pilot is .060 smaller than the recess in the final drive flange. The kit is supposed to come with a pilot ring to take up the slack.
Manny specifically said the bolts are the only alignment point on his kit, bad news for-sure, obviously the bolts are not capable of proper alignment.
77 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296434 is a reply to message #296427] |
Mon, 29 February 2016 18:55 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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The mystery in this, for me, is that Karen Bradley does not mention any
alignment problem in her instructions (
http://machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=Knuckle). While
those instructions were in draft format, Kerry Pinkerton and I each
installed the front end and provided comments for that document, most of
which were incorporated. Since no alignment problem is noted, apparently
neither Karen, Kerry, nor I had any such problem.
One should remember that Stan did his own 1-Ton, so there may be
differences from Manny's version.
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:20 PM, A. wrote:
> dr.diesel wrote on Mon, 29 February 2016 18:08
>> Manny specifically said the bolts are the only alignment point on his
> kit, bad news for-sure, obviously the bolts are not capable of proper
>> alignment.
> Maybe for most people, but clearly not for you. Your gonna need to take
> the bolts out, slip a pilot ring in to align it, and put in new bolts.
>
> Details on the pilot discrepancy are on slide 50 of this PowerPoint
> presentation:
> http://www.bdub.net/One%20Ton%20Truck%20Front%20Suspension%20Conversion.pdf
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296437 is a reply to message #296434] |
Mon, 29 February 2016 19:07 |
dr.diesel
Messages: 85
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Location: The Haute, Indiana
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Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 29 February 2016 19:55her instructions
That raises even more questions. Manny's kit has ZERO, I mean nothing about installation (aside form manufacture sheets), that's the first I've seen regarding the 1-Ton kit. I even called Manny when his kit came with one offset bushing per side, had to ask him if it goes in the front or the rear of the upper control arm, and you have to install it backwards from the sheet included with the bushing. Not that it's hard to install, but there are a few specific details that should be noted.
Her kit mentions long and short half shaft bolts,  , mine were all in the same box, if they were different lengths I didn't notice.
77 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Half shaft alignment observations [message #296439 is a reply to message #296434] |
Mon, 29 February 2016 19:01 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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I have installed a dozen or so Manny 1 ton front ends. I have not
encountered a problem of ill fitting CV to flange. Something odd here.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Feb 29, 2016 4:56 PM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:
> The mystery in this, for me, is that Karen Bradley does not mention any
> alignment problem in her instructions (
> http://machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=Knuckle). While
> those instructions were in draft format, Kerry Pinkerton and I each
> installed the front end and provided comments for that document, most of
> which were incorporated. Since no alignment problem is noted, apparently
> neither Karen, Kerry, nor I had any such problem.
>
> One should remember that Stan did his own 1-Ton, so there may be
> differences from Manny's version.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:20 PM, A. wrote:
>
>> dr.diesel wrote on Mon, 29 February 2016 18:08
>>> Manny specifically said the bolts are the only alignment point on his
>> kit, bad news for-sure, obviously the bolts are not capable of proper
>>> alignment.
>> Maybe for most people, but clearly not for you. Your gonna need to take
>> the bolts out, slip a pilot ring in to align it, and put in new bolts.
>>
>> Details on the pilot discrepancy are on slide 50 of this PowerPoint
>> presentation:
>>
> http://www.bdub.net/One%20Ton%20Truck%20Front%20Suspension%20Conversion.pdf
>> --
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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