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GMC general questions [message #293729] Mon, 11 January 2016 15:21 Go to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
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Following are three GMC related comments I have been curious about.
What's your opinion/experience?

Is extended idling detrimental for our 403/455 engines? At break in it is suggested to run at higher rom -- but what about idle time max for "broken in" engines? I have read people running at idle for two hours to charge the batteries.

Will placing the key in the run position (engine off) for an extended period burn the points on the early points/condenser ignition? Someone once mentioned this in connection with leaving the key in run to allow the compressor to pump up the airbags.

What benefits accrue from "drive it like you stole it" -- this is occasionally mentioned in connection with engine performance.


Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: GMC general questions [message #293731 is a reply to message #293729] Mon, 11 January 2016 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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I don't personally ide a carbureted engine any great length of time - not over 5 minutes or so. Our have (if correctly hooked) ported vacuum to the distributor, which will make it ide with a greatly retarded spark... it will run hotter internally. Injected engines (the new stuff) run about the same at idle as off idle, it shouldn't really make any difference.

Even with the ballast resistor in place the points will get hot and discolor. I'd fire it up. Takes only a minute or two to pump the suspension up, not too long to idle - and you won'yt beat the battery up either.

I suspect the comment means you don't need t baby the engine once it's broken in. I imagine if you keep the engine between 2000 and 3000 rpm - which is where it will be under normal operation except accelerating momentarily for the freeway on ramp - you'll get maximum life out of it. From all I can tell, maximum life on one of these is considerable.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: GMC general questions [message #293743 is a reply to message #293731] Mon, 11 January 2016 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bullitthead is currently offline  Bullitthead   United States
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If the points are open, you can leave the key on until the battery is dead and the only damage will be to the battery. If the points are closed, current will be constantly flowing through the coil, heating it up. Somewhat of a gamble as to whether you burn up the coil or kill the battery first, I've seen both scenarios played out, and have actually roasted a coil when an engine quit while idling unsupervised. At the half hour check, the coil was too hot to touch. After repairing the fuel supply the engine fired right up again, but the coil gave out weeks later on the road.

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.
Re: GMC general questions [message #293745 is a reply to message #293729] Mon, 11 January 2016 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Dennis S wrote on Mon, 11 January 2016 16:21
Following are three GMC related comments I have been curious about.
What's your opinion/experience?

Is extended idling detrimental for our 403/455 engines? At break in it is suggested to run at higher rom -- but what about idle time max for "broken in" engines? I have read people running at idle for two hours to charge the batteries.

Will placing the key in the run position (engine off) for an extended period burn the points on the early points/condenser ignition? Someone once mentioned this in connection with leaving the key in run to allow the compressor to pump up the airbags.

What benefits accrue from "drive it like you stole it" -- this is occasionally mentioned in connection with engine performance.

Dennis,

Another 73 - 23 Here and in the possession of an engine guy....

First, Nothing good happens when an engine is idling. Idling is particularly tough on a flat tappet (what you have) engine. Only idle long enough to make it go. The only exception being if you overnighted in a highway rest area. Then, get the temperature gage off the pin before you pull out.

Second, The suspension compressor should run in accessory. If you can't push the cylinder in enough to get there, then the column is broke like mine was and the fix is simple, if you have a lathe, If you don't have access to one, I will send you the shim you need. Johnny and Terry were both right, but as you will be hard pressed to know if the points are closed or not, don't do it. You should also look up a Pertronix 1186. It replaces the points so you don't have to mess with then again - except to put them in a jar and carry as a back up if you are as paranoid as I am. (I know am paranoid about some things, but I am OLD and paranoid.)

Third, Drive it like you stole is pretty much never a good idea, that implies no concern for the hardware. It is a good idea to get to high manifold pressures (lower vacuum) to burn out the carbon from time to time, but that should never happen with the engine cold and while it used to be needed in over-engined passcars, we don't (even with a <10k@ coach) have much trouble that way.

That's my take on that after 40 years of engine development engineering.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: GMC general questions [message #293768 is a reply to message #293729] Tue, 12 January 2016 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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An occasional 'drive it like you stole it' can be a good test when circling very close to home on a pre trip shake down. If you can walk home, get your truck, tow strap and friend, then fix it at home, I call that a win. I never idle long to warm up. Puts too much water in the crankcase. I warm up like 60 sec for every 10 degrees below freezing, and drive off gently till everything is at normal temps.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: GMC general questions [message #293770 is a reply to message #293729] Tue, 12 January 2016 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Location: Braselton ga
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Actually, in cold weather, I fall back to my aviation training. When the engine is warm enough to take throttle without stumbling, it's warm enough to run.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: GMC general questions [message #293775 is a reply to message #293745] Tue, 12 January 2016 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
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Registered: November 2005
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Thanks everyone for the input.

Matt, thank you for the offer -- but I'm good on the ignition switch. I expect to go with the Pertronix.

Regards,
Dennis

Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 11 January 2016 19:13
Dennis S wrote on Mon, 11 January 2016 16:21
Following are three GMC related comments I have been curious about.
What's your opinion/experience?

Is extended idling detrimental for our 403/455 engines? At break in it is suggested to run at higher rom -- but what about idle time max for "broken in" engines? I have read people running at idle for two hours to charge the batteries.

Will placing the key in the run position (engine off) for an extended period burn the points on the early points/condenser ignition? Someone once mentioned this in connection with leaving the key in run to allow the compressor to pump up the airbags.

What benefits accrue from "drive it like you stole it" -- this is occasionally mentioned in connection with engine performance.

Dennis,

Another 73 - 23 Here and in the possession of an engine guy....

First, Nothing good happens when an engine is idling. Idling is particularly tough on a flat tappet (what you have) engine. Only idle long enough to make it go. The only exception being if you overnighted in a highway rest area. Then, get the temperature gage off the pin before you pull out.

Second, The suspension compressor should run in accessory. If you can't push the cylinder in enough to get there, then the column is broke like mine was and the fix is simple, if you have a lathe, If you don't have access to one, I will send you the shim you need. Johnny and Terry were both right, but as you will be hard pressed to know if the points are closed or not, don't do it. You should also look up a Pertronix 1186. It replaces the points so you don't have to mess with then again - except to put them in a jar and carry as a back up if you are as paranoid as I am. (I know am paranoid about some things, but I am OLD and paranoid.)

Third, Drive it like you stole is pretty much never a good idea, that implies no concern for the hardware. It is a good idea to get to high manifold pressures (lower vacuum) to burn out the carbon from time to time, but that should never happen with the engine cold and while it used to be needed in over-engined passcars, we don't (even with a <10k@ coach) have much trouble that way.

That's my take on that after 40 years of engine development engineering.

Matt


Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: [GMCnet] GMC general questions [message #293777 is a reply to message #293745] Wed, 13 January 2016 04:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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.

>
>



> Second, The suspension compressor should run in accessory. If you can't
> push the cylinder in enough to get there, then the column is broke like mine
> was and the fix is simple, if you have a lathe,


>
>
> What is this?


>
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Re: [GMCnet] GMC general questions [message #293778 is a reply to message #293777] Wed, 13 January 2016 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 13 January 2016 05:48
<quote compressed>
> Second, The suspension compressor should run in accessory. If you can't
> push the cylinder in enough to get there, then the column is broke like mine
> was and the fix is simple, if you have a lathe,

> What is this?
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca

Excerpted from my post of 11 January 2016:
Second, The suspension compressor should run in accessory. If you can't push the cylinder in enough to get there, then the column is broke like mine was and the fix is simple, if you have a lathe, If you don't have access to one, I will send you the shim you need. <snip>

Chaumière's Situation:
My coach had a steering column problem. The worn out lock cylinder would often no allow me to get to the accessory position. I replaced the lock cylinder, and that made it better, but still not reliable. Then, I recognized that the tumbler section could not go into the cylinder body enough to unlock toward accessory. So with the wonderful instructions I got from Chuck Boyd some time past, I dug into the column again. What I found was that the little bridge that is supposed to use the lock cylinder retainer from going in farther had bent out of place. It is die cast and the attempt to return it to the proper location resulted in a broken part. With some further inspection, I realize that, if a proper shim is placed in the bore for the lock cylinder, then the cylinder body could be held in the correct place. That is what I did.

I may write about this repair for the community, but I have other fires to stomp out just now. When those are down to a smolder, I will document that, the keyless entry, the rear wheel bearing failure and my bolts and gaskets talk that has been a year in the making. All require my time and attention.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] GMC general questions [message #293779 is a reply to message #293778] Wed, 13 January 2016 08:57 Go to previous message
jknezek is currently offline  jknezek   United States
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Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 13 January 2016 09:44


I may write about this repair for the community, but I have other fires to stomp out just now. When those are down to a smolder, I will document that, the keyless entry, the rear wheel bearing failure and my bolts and gaskets talk that has been a year in the making. All require my time and attention.

Matt


So long as you have them all done and ready to present by Dothan Matt all will be well! Just kidding of course...


Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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