Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze?
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290636 is a reply to message #290630] |
Fri, 20 November 2015 11:18   |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I have read articles that agree with your thoughts . I wouldn't use old antifreeze even if were still sealed. I wouldn't have a problem using old oil if it wasn't real old like 15 years or more ? The refining of oil has come a long way in recent years except for zinc content for flat tappet cams. Not that long ago Blackstone ran a number of tests of some real old oil in sealed cans . They found the old oil was still good as it was refined to be.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290650 is a reply to message #290630] |
Fri, 20 November 2015 17:11 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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As far as oli goes, ZDDP has a shelf life of about 2 years. It breaks down even on the shelf, so I would think it and other additives degrade over time in oil on the shelf. It just won't have the full rated effectiveness. I bought a like new 2000 Mi 1987 Turbo Regal and the inside of the radiator looks horrible simpley from time and lack of coolant replacement, NOT mileage at 2K since rolling out of Pontiac Mi assembly.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290658 is a reply to message #290637] |
Fri, 20 November 2015 19:32 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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I also believe that the shelf life of oil is a fair bit longer than a few years, but I have seen the effects on oil that has sat for 10+ years in storage.
Back in the 90's I was given two 55g barrels of engine oil. One was straight 30w and the other was 10w30. Both barrels had been in storage, sealed, unopened, and undisturbed for more than 10 years. I repackaged that oil into 1g jugs. Once empty, I noticed a jelly-like sediment on the bottom of each barrel that I thought might be condensation residue. I inquired with the manufacturer (Petro Canada) and they said it was likely that some of the additives that had separated out of the oil and settled to the bottom. They advised that the oil would still provide adequate lubrication, but would no longer be efficient at combating/controlling contaminants and that reduced oil change intervals would be necessary if used in an automotive application. I ran that oil in all of my engines with no noticeable negative effect for many years. Most of those engines where high mileage old tech. Would I do that in a current model car? Probably not.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
> On Nov 20, 2015, at 12:23 PM, A. wrote:
>
> BobDunahugh wrote on Fri, 20 November 2015 08:46
>> I found a 1 gal container of anti freeze that has been around about 8 years. If it was oil. It would be way past it's usable date.Bob Dunahugh
> Prestone's FAQ says "many years". And, FYI, the shelf life of oil is way more than the manufacturers say. Their numbers are only to cover their
> butts.
>
> The bigger "hazard" with old oil is that it doesn't contain the benefits of the advances in oil formulations that occur from manufacture date to
> present.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> '73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit For Sale
> Upper Alabama
> Life is never as it is supposed to be. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290662 is a reply to message #290630] |
Sat, 21 November 2015 00:16 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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I spoke to a friend in the auto repair business 14 years ago who told me that the old method of measuring the freeze point and observing for green (not rusty) color of antifreeze was "inoperative". He allowed as how a trade publication lost to memory told him that the high temperatures of the ethylene glycol in the engines gradually broke it down and it became acidic (or basic) and ate up bearings in water pumps and attacked the metal in radiators, hence it was best to change it on the manufacturer's schedule. Stands to reason, as the five year (orange) antifreeze is of a different base compound, but presumably the additives aren't different, so the idea of additive depletion would cause us to check the color of the antifreeze and if no rust present, it would be evidence of the additive for rust prevention still being good. Not so, says my friend. Change the stuff. I changed my ways, and started using the orange stuff. No sludge noted, but not using in the motorhome. Only in vehicles in which it came standard.
Just what I think I know, your knowledge may vary. Given Emery Stora's experience with selling the stuff, I am ready to be corrected. Really, I don't have a dog in this hunt except what to base best practices on. Folks are saying change the antifreeze every two years. The reason purported here is to refresh the additive package. I remember vaguely some litmus-like strips for testing antifreeze, or did they test for additive packages? I'll research further on the net and report.
Editing now, I found this product on the big river website:
"Product Description
Cool-Trak coolant test strips is a easy and reliable way to test engine coolant effectiveness. With one simple dip, you can determine an engine's protection against freeze-up, boil-over and acid buildup with a highly effective pH test. You can also use CoolTrak to determine when to send coolant for recycling and to check recycled coolant for effectiveness. CoolTrak has been proven effective with the US military and has been approved for use by the U.S. Postal Service and municipal vehicle maintenance centers across the country."
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
[Updated on: Sat, 21 November 2015 00:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290663 is a reply to message #290630] |
Sat, 21 November 2015 00:22 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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I spoke to a friend in the auto repair business 14 years ago who told me that the old method of measuring the freeze point and observing for green (not rusty) color of antifreeze was "inoperative". He allowed as how a trade publication lost to memory told him that the high temperatures of the ethylene glycol in the engines gradually broke it down and it became acidic (or basic) and ate up bearings in water pumps and attacked the metal in radiators, hence it was best to change it on the manufacturer's schedule. Stands to reason, as the five year (orange) antifreeze is of a different base compound, but presumably the additives aren't different, so the idea of additive depletion would cause us to check the color of the antifreeze and if no rust present, it would be evidence of the additive for rust prevention still being good. Not so, says my friend. Change the stuff. I changed my ways, and started using the orange stuff. No sludge noted, but not using in the motorhome. Only in vehicles in which it came standard.
Just what I think I know, your knowledge may vary. Given Emery Stora's experience with selling the stuff, I am ready to be corrected. Really, I don't have a dog in this hunt except what to base best practices on. Folks are saying change the antifreeze every two years. The reason purported here is to refresh the additive package. I remember vaguely some litmus-like strips for testing antifreeze, or did they test for additive packages? I'll research further on the net and report.
Editing now, I found this product on the big river website:
"Product Description
Cool-Trak coolant test strips is a easy and reliable way to test engine coolant effectiveness. With one simple dip, you can determine an engine's protection against freeze-up, boil-over and acid buildup with a highly effective pH test. You can also use CoolTrak to determine when to send coolant for recycling and to check recycled coolant for effectiveness. CoolTrak has been proven effective with the US military and has been approved for use by the U.S. Postal Service and municipal vehicle maintenance centers across the country."
I apologize for the duplicate post, but since I edited it, the editing won't show up on the list, or so I believe. So this is the edited post with evidence that acid build up is an issue at least for some.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290664 is a reply to message #290663] |
Sat, 21 November 2015 07:14 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Re: MM X-7525 / Section 0 / General Information / Page 0-8 / 9 COOLING SYSTEM
Every 24 months or 24,000 miles, drain, flush, and refill the cooling system with a new coolant solution.
Re: MM X-7525 / Section 0 / General Information / Page 0-11 / Recommended Fluids and Lubricants:
USAGE: Engine Coolant
FLUID / LUBRICANT: Mixture of water and a high quality Ethylene Glycol base type anti-freeze conforming to GM Spec. 1899-M.
CAPACITIES: 21 Qts.
I just checked the price of anti-freeze at Wal Mart and it appears to be about $12 per gallon and distilled water is $0.88 a gallon.
Therefore in theory to change the engine coolant in a GMC you need 10.5 Qts of anti-freeze and 10.5. That means you need to buy 3
gallons of antifreeze @ $12.00 per gallon and 3 gallons of distilled water @ $0.88 per gallon (plus tax). Since Double Trouble is
based in Texas I'll ad 8.25% sales tax and it comes to $41.83. You only have to spend that every two years so the bottom line is $21
a year.
I'll just change it!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290667 is a reply to message #290664] |
Sat, 21 November 2015 08:41 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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USAussie wrote on Sat, 21 November 2015 08:14Every 24 months or 24,000 miles, drain, flush, and refill the cooling system with a new coolant solution.
Re: MM X-7525 / Section 0 / General Information / Page 0-11 / Recommended Fluids and Lubricants:
USAGE: Engine Coolant
FLUID / LUBRICANT: Mixture of water and a high quality Ethylene Glycol base type anti-freeze conforming to GM Spec. 1899-M.
CAPACITIES: 21 Qts.
I just checked the price of anti-freeze at Wal Mart and it appears to be about $12 per gallon and distilled water is $0.88 a gallon.
Therefore in theory to change the engine coolant in a GMC you need 10.5 Qts of anti-freeze and 10.5. That means you need to buy 3
gallons of antifreeze @ $12.00 per gallon and 3 gallons of distilled water @ $0.88 per gallon (plus tax). Since Double Trouble is
based in Texas I'll ad 8.25% sales tax and it comes to $41.83. You only have to spend that every two years so the bottom line is $21
a year.
I'll just change it!
Rob M.
The only problem I have with changing coolant is disposal. Our local recycling facility will take coolant in jugs. I don't know what they do with it. Flushing to me is another story. I don't have enough jugs to handle the results of flushing antifreeze and don't think having it go on the ground or down the drain is a good option. What do others do?
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290668 is a reply to message #290667] |
Sat, 21 November 2015 09:35 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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"The only problem I have with changing coolant is disposal. Our local recycling facility will take coolant in jugs. I don't know what they do with it. Flushing to me is another story. I don't have enough jugs to handle the results of flushing antifreeze and don't think having it go on the ground or down the drain is a good option. What do others do?"
Get yourself a plastic 55 gallon drum and a 5 dollar siphon pump, and scarf up some empty jugs from an auto repair place so you can easily recover and package the flushed out stuff for the recycle center. I got my barrels from the local soda pop bottling plant, cost me 2 dollars per barrel and the only thing I needed to do to them was rinse out the leftover drink syrup before using them.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil has a self life in the can. Does anti freeze? [message #290670 is a reply to message #290630] |
Sat, 21 November 2015 13:22 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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If you follow the 2 year plan, you should not need the caustic flush. The test strips are litmus. They are good at letting you know ph. That tells you if the ph modifiers, which are by design sacrificial, are depleted. If your ph is out of whack you have already been doing damage for a while. Once the additves are used up, degradation is rapid, It is not a linear curve. Like milk in the refer it is good until it turns foul, which is usually a day's time. So 2.5 yr old coolant may litmus ok, you check it a year later and it is bad. How long has it been bad?? So ya feel lucky? I hate doing radiators and head gaskets. I don't mind a simple drain and fill that much. I have seen premix EG coolants that meet the ASTM and GM spec on sale under $6 per gal. Since it doesn't all drain out opening the rad petcock, even less is needed than the dry fill spec. So I think Rob's estimate on cost is quite generous.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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