Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch (kinda pushing the limits of "routine" maintenance)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289575 is a reply to message #289574] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 00:53   |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Haha! Good one Tim!
Where are you located? What year is your Birch?
You may want to include this info into your signature file. I can almost
guarantee that there are at least a couple of fellow GMC owners near you.
It's kind of fun to connect with them for weekend work parties,
commiserating, etc.
BTW, I'm sure you've NEVER heard this before, but I LOVE your name! It
conjures up all kinds of Binford Tool images in my head.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 10:16 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch
I've had the coach for about 3 months now and have been amazed at how
generally original and "untouched" it is. I had to pul apart the back
bed/couch
and was thinking the 20 or so screws to take it apart was a bit of an
ordeal to go through to periodically service the Air tank. I saw this but
I
thought it was just for storing the shore power cord..
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/mystery-box.jpg
I looked closer and noticed that cord didn't go into the box. I undid the
thumbscrews not knowing what to inspect and found this...
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/powerhouse.jpg
If its not the original battery it is pretty close to it. Looks the same as
this one in an Ad from 77
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19770214&id=GQwqAAAAIBAJ&sji
d=TikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2768,2188110&hl=en
Are the concours d'elegance judges impressed with a vintage battery? I
guess I could leave it in, its built it's own Isolator.
--tim
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289582 is a reply to message #289574] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 09:00 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Tim,
Your signature line is pretty barren with no info except for your name. It is very helpful if you include other information about you, your coach model and year and where you live. This helps everyone on how they can help you with your questions or issues. Matt C has a much lengthier comments on how to set up sig line, but I won’t post it here. Please look at mine and also look at others as you read post here. This is the big one and I do have smaller sig line too.
Need to know the year and model of your coach to make an informed guess.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Oct 28, 2015, at 1:16 AM, Tim Taylor wrote:
>
> I've had the coach for about 3 months now and have been amazed at how generally original and "untouched" it is. I had to pul apart the back bed/couch
> and was thinking the 20 or so screws to take it apart was a bit of an ordeal to go through to periodically service the Air tank. I saw this but I
> thought it was just for storing the shore power cord..
>
> http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/mystery-box.jpg
>
> I looked closer and noticed that cord didn't go into the box. I undid the thumbscrews not knowing what to inspect and found this...
> http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/powerhouse.jpg
>
> If its not the original battery it is pretty close to it. Looks the same as this one in an Ad from 77
> https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19770214&id=GQwqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2768,2188110&hl=en
>
> Are the concours d'elegance judges impressed with a vintage battery? I guess I could leave it in, its built it's own Isolator.
>
> --tim
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289598 is a reply to message #289574] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 14:17 |
timthenomad
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Karma: 5
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Member |
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Sorry about the lack of signature, forgot to toggle it on when I posted. I just set set it on as a default.
Thank you Guy. Nice looking coach by the way. Nice design choices on the interior the original blinds look great with the new floor and upholstery.
Billy,-- we were sorry to miss the rally. We will definitely try to make it in January.
How was the water level in that 'ol battery?
more on that later.
Do you still have the original charger installed?
The Buzz box is still in there and was still buzzing until 2 weeks ago. Now it gets warm but no Buzz an no volts (I've read that that is a blessing in disguise.) I've got new PD 9245 ready do go in.
The classic car guy in me is saying "gut the inside of the buzz box and mount the PD in the case to keep it original". But from what i've been reading that's not how everybody rolls around here and frankly I'm stoked to just drop the PD over to the right and get an extra cabinet of storage out of the deal.
I plan on posting a photo tour of this coach pretty soon. I'm registered on the photo site, but there are no links to create galleries, I suspect I'm in the admin approval queue. I have been image hosting on my own server (which I'm aware is a no no around here but I will try to update my posts when it is possible to migrate them.)
So this Coach is a 76 Side Bath Birchaven. It was purchased new by Nathan and Jewell Wodruff and spent its live in Chattanooga TN. Nathan passed a few years ago and I purchased it from his son. I was told that Nathan didn't work on it personally but was meticulous about maintenance. First at the dealer, and after by a family friend who taught at the technical college and had "just about every ASC certification known to man". This was of course from the seller, but everything i've dug into it seems well maintained and un mucked with.
Which brings me this absurd battery placement. 76 was well before there where ubiquitous cordless screw guns and everybody had gobs of driver sets with whatever that square headed format is called. And there are like 20 (a lot of them hidden) screws holding that bunk together. How did they expect anybody to check the water, or even be aware that that was back there. Which is why I'm pretty sure this dryed out charred up thing is the original battery from 76, I'm not sure when they stopped the "Power House" but the fonts on the label certainly date from the Seventies. 
I took a pic of the stamp on the side, but can't decipher it (huge pic)....
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/bat-serial.jpg
I'm showing 12volts on the wires coming in so I guess it is wired in parallel with the coach battery up front. So it seems there was a convenient maintenance alert feature in the form of an exploding battery 6 inches below ones pillow.
Though poorly thought out, that battery placement is so strange as to be charming. The classic car guy in me is like "that's like the Wankle engine of battery placement, gotta preserve that. Pull the stickers off the side of the powerhouse and glue the water caps to the top of a modern dry cell. No one will ever see it, but you'll know."
--tim
Tim Taylor
Austin TX
Philadelphia PA
76 Birchaven (SB)
76 Triumph TR6
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| Re: Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289601 is a reply to message #289598] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 15:42 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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timthenomad wrote on Wed, 28 October 2015 15:17Sorry about the lack of signature, forgot to toggle it on when I posted. I just set set it on as a default.
<snip - and many to follow>
The Buzz box is still in there and was still buzzing until 2 weeks ago. Now it gets warm but no Buzz an no volts (I've read that that is a blessing in disguise.) I've got new PD 9245 ready do go in.
The classic car guy in me is saying "gut the inside of the buzz box and mount the PD in the case to keep it original". But from what i've been reading that's not how everybody rolls around here and frankly I'm stoked to just drop the PD over to the right and get an extra cabinet of storage out of the deal.
Which brings me this absurd battery placement.
I'm showing 12volts on the wires coming in so I guess it is wired in parallel with the coach battery up front. So it seems there was a convenient maintenance alert feature in the form of an exploding battery 6 inches below ones pillow.
Though poorly thought out, that battery placement is so strange as to be charming. The classic car guy in me is like "that's like the Wankle engine of battery placement, gotta preserve that. Pull the stickers off the side of the powerhouse and glue the water caps to the top of a modern dry cell. No one will ever see it, but you'll know."
--tim
Tim,
GMC owners enjoy their coaches and unlike Airstream owners, some of whom choose to retain the coach as close to OE as is humanly possible. In stead, we go for safety, reliability and functionality. That is why we have modern electrics and electronics, disk brakes and LED lighting, and that is just for starters. If you choose to peal the buzz box and stuff the PD inside, you can do that. Be aware that if you keep it a secret, other owners may doubt your competence. We all know that the only real value of a functioning buzz box is that it makes a good DC bench supply. Oh, Yeah, in a 23 you can't give up any storage volume.
Many of the early coaches (all the GM/Gemini) had a battery in back corner (between the wheel well and the APU in 23s). This was simple. Copper was REAL expensive and lead was Real Cheap then. The only part that does suck about this is that I have to keep the regulator on the APU and where they installed the converter it is forty feet of current path from the house bank in the right front corner. (I's moving it this winter. To near the passenger seat. I want that 0.7V back.)
Yes, my brother did put a dorm reefer and an inverter in his 1965 Airstream, but he just could not see 2K$ for an absorption number when they never dry camp.
Glad you fixed the sigfile.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289603 is a reply to message #289598] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 15:48 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Tim,
With all due respect to the classic car guy I wouldn't worry about maintaining originality, from my experience I doubt whether you
did so or not it would not affect the value of your GMC one way or the other.
I may ruffle some feathers with the following statement but we're talking about a mass produced vehicle not a Duisenberg. :-)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Taylor
Sorry about the lack of signature, forgot to toggle it on when I posted. I just set set it on as a default.
Thank you Guy. Nice looking coach by the way. Nice design choices on the interior the original blinds look great with the new
floor and upholstery.
Billy,-- we were sorry to miss the rally. We will definitely try to make it in January.
How was the water level in that 'ol battery?
more on that later.
Do you still have the original charger installed?
The Buzz box is still in there and was still buzzing until 2 weeks ago. Now it gets warm but no Buzz an no volts (I've read that
that is a blessing in disguise.) I've got new PD 9245 ready do go in.
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/buzzy_sm.jpg
The classic car guy in me is saying "gut the inside of the buzz box and mount the PD in the case to keep it original". But from
what i've been reading that's not how everybody rolls around here and frankly I'm stoked to just drop the PD over to the right and
get an extra cabinet of storage out of the deal.
I plan on posting a photo tour of this coach pretty soon. I'm registered on the photo site, but there are no links to create
galleries, I suspect I'm in the admin approval queue. I have been image hosting on my own server (which I'm aware is a no no around
here but I will try to update my posts when it is possible to migrate them.)
So this Coach is a 76 Side Bath Birchaven. It was purchased new by Nathan and Jewell Wodruff and spent its live in Chattanooga TN.
Nathan passed a few years ago and I purchased it from his son. I was told that Nathan didn't work on it personally but was
meticulous about maintenance. First at the dealer, and after by a family friend who taught at the technical college and had "just
about every ASC certification known to man". This was of course from the seller, but everything i've dug into it seems well
maintained and un mucked with.
Which brings me this absurd battery placement. 76 was well before there where ubiquitous cordless screw guns and everybody had
gobs of driver sets with whatever that square headed format is called. And there are like 20 (a lot of them hidden) screws holding
that bunk together. How did they expect anybody to check the water, or even be aware that that was back there. Which is why I'm
pretty sure this dryed out charred up thing is the original battery from 76, I'm not sure when they stopped the "Power House" but
the fonts on the label certainly date from the Seventies.
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/phouse-font.jpg
I took a pic of the stamp on the side, but can't decipher it (huge pic)....
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/bat-serial.jpg
I'm showing 12volts on the wires coming in so I guess it is wired in parallel with the coach battery up front. So it seems there
was a convenient maintenance alert feature in the form of an exploding battery 6 inches below ones pillow.
Though poorly thought out, that battery placement is so strange as to be charming. The classic car guy in me is like "that's like
the Wankle engine of battery placement, gotta preserve that. Pull the stickers off the side of the powerhouse and glue the water
caps to the top of a modern dry cell.
No one will ever see it, but you'll know."
Tim
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289666 is a reply to message #289574] |
Thu, 29 October 2015 14:50 |
timthenomad
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Karma: 5
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Member |
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Thanks Rob and Matt.
I'm not sure what my point was when I started this thread. Except maybe declare the Coachmen engineers the winner in the hide the battery contest. Then it started rambling . Here is my dilemma. I love original examples, and I think that it is important that they are out there. Sit people inside an original Sequoia and they feel like it's the Jetsons come to life. It's 1974, technology is making the world a better place , and in just a few short years these babies are going to be running on nuclear power and driving themselves. You can show a bored kid the threatening, hot, buzzing boat anchor of a converter and say "you know that tiny square on the plug of your cell phone charger? This is how they made them in 76". Heck it might make the physics of electricity more accessible and somebody might learn something. More likely the kid will be like "you carried that in your backpack to charge your phone at school?" For which I believe the proper response is "uphill both ways".
So to keep some pure coaches kicking around we need the preservationists. Those dedicated freaks that are re-plating their 70's era hose clamps to stay period correct. I haven't met many people in the GMC community but there has to be a few of them here. in the Triumph community it seems to be more the norm. I admire their orthodoxy and love the work they do. But I don't want to be one.
I want my coach to be a charming, comfortable, reliable, adventure mobile. Ready to go anywhere anytime, with surfaces that are easy to keep clean an adequate sound system, and not be on fire.
I'm exited about the wife (Stephanie) getting the flooring and curtain samples, the design choice bickering, the installation frustration, and hopefully the eventual satisfaction. This is going to be awesome.
But what I have now is a near perfect record of how it left the factory ~40 years ago. And I feel guilty about deleting some of that record. Stealing one from the preservationists. I don't know if you saw the post on Facebook a couple of months ago by the guy who had bought a Canyonlands with a mint interior for the purpose of gutting it and flipping it as food truck. That, of course is his prerogative, but I don't think I am the only lover of GMCs that was depressed by it.
I want to thank everybody in advance for indulging me as I come on the list from time to time to offload my preservationist guilt. And if I run into you at a gathering and you have a Coach with some plaid and shag left on it invite me come hang out in it a bit.
--tim
(still don't have a lot of pics, but here is what I'm working with)
Tim Taylor
Austin TX
Philadelphia PA
76 Birchaven (SB)
76 Triumph TR6
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| Re: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289667 is a reply to message #289666] |
Thu, 29 October 2015 15:06 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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The interior of my coach was done in 1973 by Gemini who I believe was a
subcontractor to GMC at that time. It was either Gemini or GM that decided
to use solid core house wire and soldered copper tubing for the plumbing.
These are cardinal sins in anything that moves. OK for a home that does not
shake and vibrate but not good for a motorcoach. I did not feel bad at all
to replace all of this to updated materials. In 1973 I was 23 years old and
the blue, red and orange shag carpet would have been very cool to me back
then. It gave me a headache when I looked at it back in 2008. It got
replaced as did the fake woodgrain on all the panels. It got replaced with
vinyl.
Don't feel back about updating. It's all part of the fun.
Thanks,
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Taylor
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 12:50 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch
Thanks Rob and Matt.
I'm not sure what my point was when I started this thread. Except maybe
declare the Coachmen engineers the winner in the hide the battery contest.
Then it started rambling . Here is my dilemma. I love original examples,
and I think that it is important that they are out there. Sit people
inside an original Sequoia and they feel like it's the Jetsons come to life.
It's 1974, technology is making the world a better place , and in just a
few short years these babies are going to be running on nuclear power and
driving themselves. You can show a bored kid the threatening, hot,
buzzing boat anchor of a converter and say "you know that tiny square on the
plug of your cell phone charger? This is how they made them in 76".
Heck it might make the physics of electricity more accessible and somebody
might learn something. More likely the kid will be like "you carried that
in your backpack to charge your phone at school?" For which I believe the
proper response is "uphill both ways".
So to keep some pure coaches kicking around we need the preservationists.
Those dedicated freaks that are re-plating their 70's era hose clamps to
stay period correct. I haven't met many people in the GMC community but
there has to be a few of them here. in the Triumph community it seems to be
more the norm. I admire their orthodoxy and love the work they do. But I
don't want to be one.
I want my coach to be a charming, comfortable, reliable, adventure mobile.
Ready to go anywhere anytime, with surfaces that are easy to keep clean an
adequate sound system, and not be on fire.
I'm exited about the wife (Stephanie) getting the flooring and curtain
samples, the design choice bickering, the installation frustration, and
hopefully the eventual satisfaction. This is going to be awesome.
But what I have now is a near perfect record of how it left the factory ~40
years ago. And I feel guilty about deleting some of that record.
Stealing one from the preservationists. I don't know if you saw the post
on Facebook a couple of months ago by the guy who had bought a Canyonlands
with a mint interior for the purpose of gutting it and flipping it as food
truck. That, of course is his prerogative, but I don't think I am the only
lover of GMCs that was depressed by it.
I want to thank everybody in advance for indulging me as I come on the list
from time to time to offload my preservationist guilt. And if I run into
you at a gathering and you have a Coach with some plaid and shag left on it
invite me come hang out in it a bit.
--tim
(still don't have a lot of pics, but here is what I'm working with)
http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/GMC/birchaven.jpg
--
Tim Taylor
Austin TX
76 Birchaven (SB)
76 Triumph TR6
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| Re: [GMCnet] Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289705 is a reply to message #289667] |
Fri, 30 October 2015 12:00 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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" More likely the kid will be like "you carried that in your backpack to charge your phone at school?" For which I believe the proper response is "uphill both ways"."
I recently saw a "Meme" on Facebook that read, "You kids don't know how easy you have it today. Why, when I was your age, I had to walk through nine feet of shag just to change the channel".
My coach came to me not at all original (new paint, interior, etc) so I don't have any qualms with making further modifications to suit me and my lifestyle. If your desire is to keep the coach as original as possible, I can completely understand that. As a practical measure, there are some things that should be updated though and one of the important ones is the change out the 'buzz box' for a smart charger. It is hidden away in a cabinet and only you need to know what you did. The buzz box will cook your batteries in short order if you leave the coach plugged in all the time and it is a crap shoot to make sure you unplug it before any damage is done. You can do it, but is it worth the hassle?
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289747 is a reply to message #289574] |
Sat, 31 October 2015 15:35 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Tim -
If you want the original 12v supply that Norris fitted ti the eqarly 23', send me a message - I got one which wiorks.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Archaeological discovery in the back of the Birch [message #289765 is a reply to message #289747] |
Sat, 31 October 2015 21:12 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Tim,
Nice coach! I had a similar discovery with my birch when I first replaced the front battery, Could not understand why the battery would not charge - it was trying to charge the hidden one in the back. I did not feel like rewiring at that point so I just replaced it and moved on.
Good luck with your coach.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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