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Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289205]

Thu, 22 October 2015 23:31

timthenomad

Messages: 63
Registered: June 2015
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 5

Member

Hi All,

My name is Tim. I've been lurking for a few months meaning to post a meet and greet message with the show and tell pictures of my "new to me coach" and all that, but I never got around to to it. So its straight on to the "can anyone help me with this problem post". Apologies for the lack of social grace.

So I currently have no shore power and a limited understanding of how AC electricity ought to behave. I own a 76 Birchaven and from my searching of the archives it looks like all of the Coachmen line have roughly the same AC electrical setup. A 30 amp shore power cord going into this Square D QO power box..
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/2778-royale/p39700-royale-power-transfer-rocker-switch.html

On mine the breaker on the shore power appears to be cooked. My search for the replacement part led me to this thread..
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=17677&goto=132421&rid=4886#msg_132421

Here is where I am confused. Are these 2 pole breakers? They take up 2 slots on the box and it would seem that this part would be a drop in replacement, but I thought 2 pole = 220 volt output..
http://www.lowes.com/pd_71820-296-QO230CP_1z10xmeZ1z0yt2m__?productId=3135067&pl=1

But if you do the 360 view thing of that back of it, it has two connection clips on the top rail and one on the bottom right. On the failed one I pulled out of mine it has one clip on the the top left and one on the bottom right. Is it just a matter of prying off the top right connector on the Lowes part, filling the void with liquid electrical tape. And Blissfully enjoying AC without the fear of the panel blowing up?

Thanks in Advance.
--tim

Tim Taylor
~~Austin TX~~
Philadelphia PA
76 Birchaven (SB)
76 Triumph TR6

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Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289209 is a reply to message #289205]

Fri, 23 October 2015 00:42

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

You are aware of the steel plate that allow you to go to the generator or
the land line.
Some have not figured that out.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Tim Taylor wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My name is Tim. I've been lurking for a few months meaning to post a meet
> and greet message with the show and tell pictures of my "new to me coach"
> and all that, but I never got around to to it. So its straight on to the
> "can anyone help me with this problem post". Apologies for the lack of
> social grace.
>
> So I currently have no shore power and a limited understanding of how AC
> electricity ought to behave. I own a 76 Birchaven and from my searching of
> the archives it looks like all of the Coachmen line have roughly the same
> AC electrical setup. A 30 amp shore power cord going into this Square D QO
> power box..
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/2778-royale/p39700-royale-power-transfer-rocker-switch.html
>
> On mine the breaker on the shore power appears to be cooked. My search
> for the replacement part led me to this thread..
>
> http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=17677&goto=132421&rid=4886#msg_132421
>
> Here is where I am confused. Are these 2 pole breakers? They take up 2
> slots on the box and it would seem that this part would be a drop in
> replacement, but I thought 2 pole = 220 volt output..
>
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_71820-296-QO230CP_1z10xmeZ1z0yt2m__?productId=3135067&pl=1
>
> But if you do the 360 view thing of that back of it, it has two connection
> clips on the top rail and one on the bottom right. On the failed one I
> pulled out of mine it has one clip on the the top left and one on the
> bottom right. Is it just a matter of prying off the top right connector
> on the
> Lowes part, filling the void with liquid electrical tape. And Blissfully
> enjoying AC without the fear of the panel blowing up?
>
> Thanks in Advance.
> --tim
>
> --
> Tim Taylor
> Austin TX
> 76 Birchaven (SB)
> 76 Triumph TR6
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289216 is a reply to message #289205]

Fri, 23 October 2015 03:46

Guy Lopes

Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Hi Tim! Welcome to the cult.

I too own a 76 Birchaven. I haven't yet dug into the electrical system
enough to answer your question with any authority. Just to be sure though,
your shore power CB is TU? Fried? Gone? Not working? You want to replace it?
I'll do some searching as well, but you've come to the right place.

Ken Henderson owns the same coach as us, albeit super modified over stock
status, and I suspect that he'll have an answer for us pretty quickly. GMC
"genius" may be a bit overstated about him, but not by much, and he'll
humbly deny it anyway. There are many others here who know these systems
inside and out and are extremely helpful. You should hear shortly the best
route to take.

I love Austin and get out there several times a year. Maybe we'll meet up
one day. I'd love to see your GMC!

Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL

www.GMC-Guy.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Taylor
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:31 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes.

Hi All,

My name is Tim. I've been lurking for a few months meaning to post a meet
and greet message with the show and tell pictures of my "new to me coach"
and all that, but I never got around to to it. So its straight on to the
"can anyone help me with this problem post". Apologies for the lack of
social grace.

So I currently have no shore power and a limited understanding of how AC
electricity ought to behave. I own a 76 Birchaven and from my searching of
the archives it looks like all of the Coachmen line have roughly the same AC
electrical setup. A 30 amp shore power cord going into this Square D QO
power box..
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/2778-royale/p39700-royale-power-transfer-r
ocker-switch.html

On mine the breaker on the shore power appears to be cooked. My search for
the replacement part led me to this thread..
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=17677&goto=132421&ri
d=4886#msg_132421

Here is where I am confused. Are these 2 pole breakers? They take up 2
slots on the box and it would seem that this part would be a drop in
replacement, but I thought 2 pole = 220 volt output..
http://www.lowes.com/pd_71820-296-QO230CP_1z10xmeZ1z0yt2m__?productId=313506
7&pl=1

But if you do the 360 view thing of that back of it, it has two connection
clips on the top rail and one on the bottom right. On the failed one I
pulled out of mine it has one clip on the the top left and one on the bottom
right. Is it just a matter of prying off the top right connector on the
Lowes part, filling the void with liquid electrical tape. And Blissfully
enjoying AC without the fear of the panel blowing up?

Thanks in Advance.
--tim

--
Tim Taylor
Austin TX
76 Birchaven (SB)
76 Triumph TR6

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Guy Lopes 76 Birchaven "Orion" Sacramento, CA W6TOL www.GMC-Guy.com

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Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289220 is a reply to message #289205]

Fri, 23 October 2015 06:46

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Tim,

Welcome aboard.

The old thread you found contains just about everything known about the
subject you broached.

The double pole breaker you found is a double ploe breaker for use in a 240
vac circuit and is NOT what you want. With the power disconnected from the
coach, remove your failed breaker to an electrical supply house (Lowes,
Home Depot, or a local distributor). You should be able to find a direct
replacement. The important thing is that the rocker between the Shore and
Generator breaker prevents the breakers from EVER being closed at the same
time. NEVER have both closed at the same time!

However, I suggest you consider installing one of these for future
convenience:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039T0518/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B006FLT 0IG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=08GRPWGJ38CXA8J466P4

or

http://goo.gl/7Ygf4P

That is not quite the cheapest one offered by Amazon, but it's from a
manufacturer we're VERY familiar with here.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Tim Taylor wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My name is Tim. I've been lurking for a few months meaning to post a meet
> and greet message with the show and tell pictures of my "new to me coach"
> and all that, but I never got around to to it. So its straight on to the
> "can anyone help me with this problem post". Apologies for the lack of
> social grace.
>
> So I currently have no shore power and a limited understanding of how AC
> electricity ought to behave. I own a 76 Birchaven and from my searching of
> the archives it looks like all of the Coachmen line have roughly the same
> AC electrical setup. A 30 amp shore power cord going into this Square D QO
> power box..
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/2778-royale/p39700-royale-power-transfer-rocker-switch.html
>
> On mine the breaker on the shore power appears to be cooked. My search
> for the replacement part led me to this thread..
>
> http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=17677&goto=132421&rid=4886#msg_132421
>
> Here is where I am confused. Are these 2 pole breakers? They take up 2
> slots on the box and it would seem that this part would be a drop in
> replacement, but I thought 2 pole = 220 volt output..
>
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_71820-296-QO230CP_1z10xmeZ1z0yt2m__?productId=3135067&pl=1
>
> But if you do the 360 view thing of that back of it, it has two connection
> clips on the top rail and one on the bottom right. On the failed one I
> pulled out of mine it has one clip on the the top left and one on the
> bottom right. Is it just a matter of prying off the top right connector
> on the
> Lowes part, filling the void with liquid electrical tape. And Blissfully
> enjoying AC without the fear of the panel blowing up?
>
> Thanks in Advance.
> --tim
>
> --
> Tim Taylor
> Austin TX
> 76 Birchaven (SB)
> 76 Triumph TR6
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289242 is a reply to message #289205]

Fri, 23 October 2015 11:46

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

Are you guessing the breaker is bad or have you proved it as bad with a meter. You could use an Ohm meter with everything unplugged and check for continuity across the breaker ON and no continuity OFF. Then with shore power on, in 200VAC mode meter before and after the breaker to see if there is 120V with the other meter lead on neutral. Or if there is stuff plugged in and on in the coach you can meter across the line and load side of the breaker. Breaker OFF you should see about 120V and ON 0V if breaker is good. Shore power cables have been known to fail in the cable or at male plug end as well.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289245 is a reply to message #289205]

Fri, 23 October 2015 14:27

timthenomad

Messages: 63
Registered: June 2015
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 5

Member

Yes the breaker shorted out on the back. I'll try to post some images this evening.
--tim

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289248 is a reply to message #289205]

Fri, 23 October 2015 16:08

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

I installed one of these to transfer from generator to shore power when I installed the 7KW genset, which is 240 volt:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196574_200196574?utm_source=google_PPC&utm_medium=Dynamic+Search+Ads+Test&utm_campaign=DSA&a mp;a mp;utm_content=_cat:generators/generator%20accessories/reliance&mkwid=sb8yF2dPw&pcrid=81459273311&mtype=b&devicetype=c&storeId=697 0&langId=-1&type=search&gclid=CN6ksrm-2cgCFdgOgQodo8QL-Q
And then put in a new breaker panel:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6845-new-coach-power-systems.html
That panel is a spit bus 240V, but by paralleling the two buses, you can use it with a 30 amp feed and 120 genst.
The old system had an automatic transfer which I made, basically a continuous duty DPDT relay rated 30 Amps on its contacts. The relay isn't inexpensive... but we used them in a tower light controller in several locations. We changed them every 4 years as a matter of preventative maintenance, I bagged a spare. My original setup had burned the master breaker and the manual transfer switch. Since I went to 50 amp shore power and the 7KW genset, I also removed the selector switch which gave hot water or air conditioning.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Updated on: Fri, 23 October 2015 16:09]

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289251 is a reply to message #289245]

Fri, 23 October 2015 18:59

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

timthenomad wrote on Fri, 23 October 2015 14:27

Yes the breaker shorted out on the back. I'll try to post some images this evening.
--tim

I am guessing if you have two 30A circuits, you want two of these

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/786676/786676362207lg.jpg

instead of one of these

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/786676/786676362955lg.jpg

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289316 is a reply to message #289205]

Sat, 24 October 2015 13:30

timthenomad

Messages: 63
Registered: June 2015
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 5

Member

I like Ken's suggestion of the Progressive Dynamics box, but it says the size is 8"x8"x4" I'm trying to maximize space around there and that takes up a lot more room that a piece of tape and a "do not touch" note. Smile

Smile

Although less then ideal I'm fine sticking with the original solution if I can find a replacement breaker. Bonus points if it will fit the rocker "kinda sorta" protection mechanism.

Here are the Breakers from the back. The one on the left is the feed from Onan the one on the right is the feed from the shore power cord.

http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/bad-breaker-back.jpg

Here is the hot bar at the back of the breaker box where they connect. I can't tell if the black stuff is insulator that Coachmen put on there, or the melted remains of the back of the breaker.

http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/buss-bar.jpg

There are no identifiable part numbers on either of the Coachmen breakers, And it looks as if they "made" them by just removing the left clip from a 2 pole breaker and plugging the hole with insulator. My plan was to try the same with the breaker I linked to above (the rocker mechanism will fit on it). Wire it up to the shore cord and see if I'm getting 110 volts on the one top clip. If so further insulate the unused contact on the panel bar and plug it in.

As I said before though, my knowledge of VAC is week. I actually have no idea why my vacuum cleaner doesn't suck instead of blow when I put the plug in upside down. So I am hoping to run the idea by an electrican first to see if they shake their head.

--tim

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Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289318 is a reply to message #289316]

Sat, 24 October 2015 15:41

Dave Mumert

Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hi Tim

The breaker looks like a Square D QO type, The interlock is available from Square D as part number QO2DTIM or QO2DTI
http://www.qualityswitchgear.com/ordersavantweb/Product/SQUARE-D/433477-QO240
http://products.schneider-electric.us/technical-library/?event=detail&oid=09008926801a020b&cat=0b0089268022c9a4
There are a couple listed on EBay.

You can find the Square D catalog here
http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range/7229-qo-b--circuit-breakers/?parent-subcategory-id=50310
Look under documents and downloads then select "QO and QOB Miniature Circuit"

It looks like you will need to clean out the melted plastic before you can install a new breaker.

QO breakers are very common here in Canada.

Good Luck

Dave Mumert

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 12:31 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes.
>
> I like Ken's suggestion of the Progressive Dynamics box, but it says the size is 8"x8"x4" I'm trying to maximize space around
there and
> that takes up a lot more room that a piece of tape and a "do not touch" note. :) Although less then ideal I'm fine sticking with
the
> original solution if I can find a replacement breaker. Bonus points if it will fit the rocker "kinda sorta" protection mechanism.
>
> Here are the Breakers from the back. The one on the left is the feed from Onan the one on the right is the feed from the shore
> power cord.
> http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/bad-breaker-back.jpg
>
> Here is the hot bar at the back of the breaker box where they connect. I can't tell if the black stuff is insulator that Coachmen
put on
> there, or the melted remains of the back of the breaker.
>
> http://qa.tahitiblue.com/images/buss-bar.jpg
>
> There are no identifiable part numbers on either of the Coachmen breakers, And it looks as if they "made" them by just removing
the
> left clip from a 2 pole breaker and plugging the hole with insulator. My plan was to try the same with the breaker I linked to
above
> (the rocker mechanism will fit on it). Wire it up to the shore cord and see if I'm getting 110 volts on the one top clip. If so
further
> insulate the unused contact on the panel bar and plug it in.
>
> As I said before though, my knowledge of VAC is week. I actually have no idea why my vacuum cleaner doesn't suck instead of blow
> when I put the plug in upside down. So I am hoping to run the idea by an electrican first to see if they shake their head.
>
> --tim
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289320 is a reply to message #289205]

Sat, 24 October 2015 16:27

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Tim -
It really doesn't matter whether the insulation is Coachmen or Square D. When things are burned like that, replace them to avoid future problems. For example from Lowe's:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_36242-296-HOM612L100SCP___?productId=3134331&pl=1&Ntt=beaker+box

Under $15. Breakers run less than $5 each, Put new in and save the worry.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289324 is a reply to message #289320]

Sat, 24 October 2015 17:51

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 24 October 2015 16:27

Tim -
It really doesn't matter whether the insulation is Coachmen or Square D. When things are burned like that, replace them to avoid future problems. For example from Lowe's:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_36242-296-HOM612L100SCP___?productId=3134331&pl=1&Ntt=beaker+box

Under $15. Breakers run less than $5 each, Put new in and save the worry.

--johnny

I believe there are two types of circuit breakers. Square D stuff won't fit anything else, and nothing else fits Square D. All the rest are interchangeable with each other (AKA GE compatible).

Picture clearly shows Square D, so that's the brand of breaker that will have to be bought if that box is going to be used. If the breaker box is going to be replaced, Johnny is right.

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289331 is a reply to message #289324]

Sat, 24 October 2015 19:15

Hal StClair

Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM

Karma: -12

Senior Member

At one time many brands of breakers would interchange ie. Westinghouse, Murray, Bryant,GE, ITE to name a few. The problem was they were not listed to be used in panels other than their own brand even though they would 'fit'the boxes. Now breakers are unique for their listed panels and the commonality once enjoyed is gone.A breaker for a GE panel will only fit a GE panel. Square D still produces the 'Q' series that Coachman used (and IMHO is a better product than their new Home Line series) but also makes the Home Line series.
Installing breakers that "kinda sorta" work is really a BAD idea. A cross connection is something you don't even want.
Off my soap box for now.
Hal

"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane." 1977 Royale 101348, 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered, 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout, Rio Rancho, NM

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289334 is a reply to message #289205]

Sat, 24 October 2015 19:42

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

Hard to tell in the pictures but the breakers look ok or at least better than the buss bar in the box. Must have been a loose or oxidized connection. Have you searched those SquareD box numbers? Also something looks odd to me the way they have those white neutral wires pinched under those sharp brackets. But again hard to tell in the pic

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289342 is a reply to message #289331]

Sun, 25 October 2015 00:02

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

Hal StClair wrote on Sat, 24 October 2015 19:15

At one time many brands of breakers would interchange ie. Westinghouse, Murray, Bryant,GE, ITE to name a few. ... Now breakers are unique for their listed panels and the commonality once enjoyed is gone. ...

I haven't seen that. Only Square D maintains their lack of interchangeability. The only times I ever found that something wouldn't fit is anything other than Square D in a Square D box, or a Square D breaker in any other branded box. There's Square D, and everything else is "GE compatible".

Of course Square D is what I see in the pictures in this thread, so if the breaker box in this story is not going to be replaced, the replacement breakers will have to be Square D.

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289356 is a reply to message #289205]

Sun, 25 October 2015 09:35

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

OK Tim,

Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum.....

Fortunately this will all be printable so you don't have to take notes...
(You are really taxing some old guy's memory here..)

That damaged breaker is a VERY special part. QO-SWN is the most of the part number. The complete part number would be QO-SWN-30. It is two-pole, but it is not two power poles. The second pole is a neutral switch. That is why those breakers have two pig-tails. The only place you will even find it listed is in Square D's own catalog and at that, it barely gets an Honorable Mention on page 7 of http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/QO-QOB%20Circuit%20Breakers/0730CT9801R108.pdf the miniature breaker complete catalog.

Austin is a big town, and hopefully you will find a cooperative electric supplier. They will probably ask you to pay in advance. You will not find a replacement at a big box. You may not even be able to buy it from an on-line listing. (Yes, they are that rare, but it is available.) I see there is a Graybar in Pflugerville, and they are a national supplier that I have worked with to acquire strange parts. But, I advise that you start with the closest supplier first as the biggest is not always the best and this may take several tries.

The buss in the box (the hot side thing the breakers connect to) does not look (Good Picture) to be hurt anyplace that matters. Scrape off the melted plastic and forget about it. You do know the Coachman diagram for this box is on the GMC site - Right?

Now, Why Does This Special Breaker Matter:
It matters because in a coach, you have two possible power sources. For safety reasons, those have to remain completely isolated. To do that, both the hot and the neutral have to be disconnected. This is why GMC used plugs. Nothing more secure than unplugging everything. There is also not much that is less convenient than unplugging everything. That is why Coachman used what they did.

Now that you are here, and I see you have been lurking a while, you have to know what a great community you have joined. You now have several thousand "old" friends ready to offer assistance. I have seen this before, but only with the watermen that are my world. No, I am not the "Official Site Greeter" but I feel it is important that all new arrivals know that they are welcome. That is why I have taken to writing a welcome much as any new owner or vessel would be welcomed in the only other community I know that is a mindful of others. So,

May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth within here.

Welcome Tim

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289432 is a reply to message #289205]

Sun, 25 October 2015 22:16

timthenomad

Messages: 63
Registered: June 2015
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 5

Member

Thank you Matt, for the info and the blessing.

That was just the info I was looking for. Now the wiring on the bottom of the breaker makes sense. I couldn't figure out why they didn't have the neutral feed going straight to the neutral buss instead of routing it through the 2nd pole (a situation that would always cause a normal 2 pole breaker to trip. Quite spectacularly I would imagine.)

The ordering part number appears to be QO230SWN

There is a place in North Austin called Pioneer Breaker, I'll call them in the AM and see if they have one kicking around on the shelf. If not It looks like a couple of online vendors have them.

http://www.pacificcoastbreaker.com/SQD-QO230SWN.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5D52JA8748&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Circuit+Breakers+%26+Lin e+Protection-_-9SIA5D52JA8748&gclid=CN_d4I2V38gCFYZAaQodaWQNzA&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Updated on: Sun, 25 October 2015 22:16]

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289445 is a reply to message #289205]

Mon, 26 October 2015 09:02

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

Wow Matt that makes perfect sense on how they kept it to code by switching the neutral. Never examined a Royale or Birch up close. The convenience of the switchover seams nice but the GMC14-50 plug is idiotproof. Has anyone contacted Coachmen to see if there is a pile of these in a shop corner somewhere. They may have used this setup on their boxy coaches many years after the GMC Transmodes were finished.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289446 is a reply to message #289432]

Mon, 26 October 2015 09:23

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Tim,

It was truly my pleasure to be of assistance.
That is the way it works here.

I am very glad you were able to locate the part on line. I am surprised.

Enjoy the coach.

Matt

timthenomad wrote on Sun, 25 October 2015 23:16

Thank you Matt, for the info and the blessing.

That was just the info I was looking for. Now the wiring on the bottom of the breaker makes sense. I couldn't figure out why they didn't have the neutral feed going straight to the neutral buss instead of routing it through the 2nd pole (a situation that would always cause a normal 2 pole breaker to trip. Quite spectacularly I would imagine.)

The ordering part number appears to be QO230SWN

There is a place in North Austin called Pioneer Breaker, I'll call them in the AM and see if they have one kicking around on the shelf. If not It looks like a couple of online vendors have them.

http://www.pacificcoastbreaker.com/SQD-QO230SWN.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5D52JA8748&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Circuit+Breakers+%26+Lin e+Protection-_-9SIA5D52JA8748&gclid=CN_d4I2V38gCFYZAaQodaWQNzA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes. [message #289455 is a reply to message #289445]

Mon, 26 October 2015 10:28

k2gkk

Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009

Karma: -8

Senior Member

I had a fairly large boat (Carver 355 Aft Cabin) in which the original owner had an auto-transfer system installed.

I much preferred the original manual switching (between shore and generator power) of my previous boat because I could start the generator and wait 30 seconds or so for the generator to stabilize before re-engaging the various loads; especially the air conditioning.

With auto transfer, the changeover starts as soon as minimal voltage comes from the generator set and this is definitely NOT GOOD for either the genset OR the load appliances.

The GMC's manual reconnection from shore to already running generator (and vice versa) is far better, if not more convenient.

Remember that the above "advice" is not worth anything more than what you have paid for it!

If anybody is interested, I have a two-pole heavy duty ONAN manual change-over switch available. I believe each pole is capable of 30 Amps. I removed if from a single 30A setup on my previous boat when I installed a second 30A service and used relays to switch between shore and genset power. Switch has TWO center-off positions as an interlock to to ensure that one supply is definitely off before second supply is engaged. $100 plus shipping.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ Since 30 November '53 ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ Member GMCMI and Classics ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"

> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 08:02:45 -0600
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> From: gransport7087@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Coachmen Shore Power Breaker woes.
>
> Wow Matt that makes perfect sense on how they kept it to code by switching the neutral. Never examined a Royale or Birch up close. The convenience of
> the switchover seams nice but the GMC14-50 plug is idiotproof. Has anyone contacted Coachmen to see if there is a pile of these in a shop corner
> somewhere. They may have used this setup on their boxy coaches many years after the GMC Transmodes were finished.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> Source America First

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