Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be?
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288943 is a reply to message #288938] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 10:15   |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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My 12v outlet installation in the passenger side armrest area.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/electrical/p59298-12v-outlet.html
There is lots of room here for several (3?) 12v outlets. I choose to add one 12v outlet and because I'm into Amateur Radio and Emergency Response (ARES), I included a pair of Anderson Power Poles. The wiring is straight through the grommet on the firewall to the house battery up front.
I used heavier gauge wire. the PowerPoles are rated at 20 Amps, plenty for my radio usage.
If you go to www.qsradio.com you will see a great selection of Anderson PowerPoles. Plus, they now have "Q-PWR Panels and Pods." I'm sure that you can find outlet designs that will inspire your design.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288945 is a reply to message #288937] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 10:34 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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If you're planning to add a 12VDC - 120VAC inverter, you'll want to consider running the (heavy!) 12V power cable to its location. In my coach, I wanted the inverter by the AC power box under the rear bed, which required 35 feet of 1/0 and 2/0 cable to carry the necessary 100 amps of DC power (inverters are notoriously finicky about voltage drop and will shut down if you don't have seriously large cables feeding them, or very, very short runs of cable). Others choose to mount the inverter near the house batteries, and run 120VAC cables to the distribution panel(s), but I really didn't want to start stringing 120VAC cables along the chassis.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288946 is a reply to message #288945] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 11:24 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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The inverter should be placed as close as feasible to the batteries. Better
to run lots of ac wire and less than 4' of 0 gauge wire.
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Sunday, October 18, 2015, Mark wrote:
> If you're planning to add a 12VDC - 120VAC inverter, you'll want to
> consider running the (heavy!) 12V power cable to its location. In my
> coach, I
> wanted the inverter by the AC power box under the rear bed, which required
> 35 feet of 1/0 and 2/0 cable to carry the necessary 100 amps of DC power
> (inverters are notoriously finicky about voltage drop and will shut down
> if you don't have seriously large cables feeding them, or very, very short
> runs of cable). Others choose to mount the inverter near the house
> batteries, and run 120VAC cables to the distribution panel(s), but I really
> didn't
> want to start stringing 120VAC cables along the chassis.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288952 is a reply to message #288946] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 13:13 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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sgltrac wrote on Sun, 18 October 2015 09:24The inverter should be placed as close as feasible to the batteries. Better
to run lots of ac wire and less than 4' of 0 gauge wire.
I do understand the electrical reasons for this, but I decided to go the other way for a couple reasons...
1) Larger 12VDC cabling to my power distribution box (also mounted in the rear of the coach), as well as to supply the generator starter means less power loss for everything else. Not a huge deal, but having a couple extra tenths of a volt can make a difference, especially when trying to start the generator.
2) The cost of the heavy 1/0 and 2/0 cable wasn't huge - I think I sunk about $50 into all of it.
3) The consequences of frayed insulation a 12VDC cable running the length of the coach's frame rails is a blown fuse.
4) The consequences of frayed insulation on a 120VAC cable running the length of the coach's frame rails could be downright dangerous.
5) Mounting the inverter near the house batteries means in the engine compartment (not a good idea, IMHO) or - best case - under the dinette base or couch base, which would still require 10' or so of heavy cable, and would put the inverter where the noise of the fan might be a whole lot more noticeable.
6) Kind of an oblique issue, but inverters are notorious for putting out radio frequency interference. Mounting it in the back means it's not at all close to anything that could be affected by the inverter's presence.
As a result, I stuck the inverter back under the bed (tilting platform that covers water, DC and AC distribution), where it is protected and far enough away from the "living area" that you really can't hear the fan unless you're standing in the kitchen listening hard for it.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288964 is a reply to message #288937] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 18:40 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Bob
Depending on where the air compressor is, if it's like my 78 Royale, make sure the wire to the compressor is adequate, it's a pretty long run. I like the idea that too many USB ports are impossible, running under way and with house current. Don't have a great idea for switching the two. Relay that pulls in on shore power? How about AC for upper cabinets for satellite receiver, bigger screen TV. Run concealed coax for cable TV if you aren't in easy satellite territory for some reason, (trees, buildings, canyon.) I keep finding a need for a 120vac outlet nearer the front for test equipment, computer charging, etc, but it's near gasoline fumes, etc. They keep things pretty separate, stock. Think through the inverter wiring as mentioned. Often the heater blower amps are critical, wouldn't hurt to uprate the heater 12v wire if you plan on trouble-free operation. I would lay an extra multi-conductor wire from front to back, (video backup camera, and other things as needed, including towed vehicle telltales (brakes applied light, complete circuit light.) If you contemplate solar, you need heavy 12v bus wire front to back, ceiling to floor in refrig compartment, depending on whether you use or where you locate the extra batteries most need when boondocking. Check out the heavy wire to the back batteries behind the driver's side front wheel well so it doesn't chafe (possibly the reason behind your first fire). Some also say check the full run, particularly in front of the coach ahead of the engine. Are you ever going to have an automatic deploying awning and need 12 v up high? Redundant grounds are good, as Ken Burton says. You aren't remotely going to need all this, but if you want to pick one or two, it will be taken care of.
Ken Henderson wired automatic 6-way seats, (12v). Fuel pump and relay wire uprated, if EFI. If you want Gene's air horns, wire them to the roof. If you want Gene's military spot, wire that. (I am thinking about a fire engine spotlight) Start brush fires. If you want a dashcam operated behind the rear view mirror, get 12v around the windshield to the top. Consider any antennas you want to mount now. Do you expect to mount an automatic dish on top? You will need some of that fancy cable from the LNA to the receiver. 12v to that point, probably. Have to research that. With all that, it would be good to fuse a relayed circuit to pull in on the ACC/RUN position on the ignition switch. That should do it.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288966 is a reply to message #288937] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 19:06 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Bob -
I haven't yet but will be adding both 12V and 110V outlets outside the coach. These will probably be in a box between the frame and body just behind the door on the curb side of the coach. Also, I'll add speaker plugs for the radio. This will save me running an extension cord out the window for my canopy lights and allow me to use the coach stereo for music outside instead of the portable radio I have now. I don't know what the 12V outlet will be good for, but I bet it gets used for something before it's all over with.
I learned early on, when building studios and transmitter plants, when you figure out how many wires to run for what, double the number. It sounds silly, but you end up using them. Easy to do during construction and costs only wire... but a royal PIA after the finish work has been done. I replaced a two breaker AC panel with an 8 breaker, I'm down to only two spares already.
--johnny
n.b. I am in awe of your Corvairs. I had a '65 500 club coupe, and considered it the worst fraud ever perpetrated on the driving public:)
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #288985 is a reply to message #288964] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 22:35 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
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12 volts inside the overhead cabinets is useful for lighting and may already be there, but it's also nice to have a couple of cigarette lighter style sockets mounted in there to accommodate those 12V>>>USB chargers for phones and gadgets while still keeping them safer in the cabinet. I would like to have the 110v wired in the cabinet also, but instead just put a small inverter in there for now to power some rope lights.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #289000 is a reply to message #288966] |
Mon, 19 October 2015 07:26 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Johnny Bridges wrote on Sun, 18 October 2015 20:06Bob - <snip>
I learned early on, when building studios and transmitter plants, when you figure out how many wires to run for what, double the number. It sounds silly, but you end up using them. Easy to do during construction and costs only wire... but a royal PIA after the finish work has been done. I replaced a two breaker AC panel with an 8 breaker, I'm down to only two spares already.
--johnny
Johnny,
That all sounds very much like what I always used to tell owners when upgrading the electrics on keel boats. My favorite line was, "It takes 20 feet of wire to go 10 feet on a sailboat." And it was usually pretty close.
My rule was Critical things should not share a circuit. Do you have any idea how many times there was one circuit for "Radio" and it powered both the VHF and the Stereo??
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #289005 is a reply to message #288937] |
Mon, 19 October 2015 07:52 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Bob -
Smoke on contacts leads to heat failure. I suggest you take the transfer switch and carefully clean the contacts in it with solvent and then a relay burnishing tool or some crocus cloth to ensure you don't have a layer of crud on them which would lead to grief. Then, as long as the coils are still good the switch should perform correctly.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #289028 is a reply to message #288937] |
Mon, 19 October 2015 13:26 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
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BobDunahugh wrote on Sun, 18 October 2015 08:56I'm getting to the point of repairing, and adding more 12/110 volt wiring. I've made a drawing. But open to ideas that I may have not thought of. I don't want to be in the situation of. ( I wish I would have thought of that in 3 months. )Bob Dunahugh78 Royale.
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,
Bob,
I ran the house 12v wires, in walls, inside wire looms or plastic tubes with a string to be able to pull other if future need come up.
Some looms have added a few spare wires. All wires (12v & 120ac) going across the roof are routed in the roof rib channel.
The removal of the roof panel gap strip(roof panel are short not to cover the channel)give easy access to wires and water lines.
There are (Amazon) USB charge ports for 12v, and also 120ac recepts with USB charge ports at Lowes and Home Depot.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #289078 is a reply to message #288985] |
Tue, 20 October 2015 23:11 |
The Dr
Messages: 75
Registered: July 2014
Location: Toledo, OR
Karma: 0
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I found putting in 12v LED tape lights in the cabinets works really well. I put a dimmer on the one in the cabinet over the galley. I also want to wire the cabinet doors with switches so that it turns on when they open. It is bright enough to do a pretty good job of lighting up the main area. Also put some behind the cabinets in the back and up over the back window. Really brightens up the back. Makes it feel less like a cave. Now I have to find connections in the wardrobe and bathroom. All the cabinets are going to get the same treatments.
Bullitthead wrote on Sun, 18 October 2015 20:3512 volts inside the overhead cabinets is useful for lighting and may already be there, but it's also nice to have a couple of cigarette lighter style sockets mounted in there to accommodate those 12V>>>USB chargers for phones and gadgets while still keeping them safer in the cabinet. I would like to have the 110v wired in the cabinet also, but instead just put a small inverter in there for now to power some rope lights.
Mike Sauer
Toledo, OR
1975 26' Avion
1-ton front end, SullyBilt AirBag System, 3.21 tranny
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Restoration. If you could add more 12/110 volt. Where would it be? [message #289095 is a reply to message #288937] |
Wed, 21 October 2015 13:01 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Bob,
I personally would run everything inside on 20 amp 12-2 wire. That way you can not have any power issues when running any space heater, or other slightly higher draw appliance.
amazon is your friend:
http://www.amazon.com/TOPGREENER-TU2204A-Charger-Tamper-Resistant/dp/B00IAZTL2K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1445450049&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=US B+outlet&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/ISWEES-Cigarette-Lighter-Splitter-Charger/dp/B00RJVJJCI/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1445450069&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=c igerette+lighterr+outlet
any questions on solar charging, give me a call. You may leave space to install a solar charge controller, and run some wires. I have 6 awg fished up to the roof from my charge controller at the batteries up to my solar panels, and another couple wires run from the charge controller/batteries, to a battery meter.
Bob- if you need or want to add any coax for TV/Dish, and need some good stuff and fittings. Let me know. I can have one of my crew drop some stuff off for you.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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