Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches (New coach)
| New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288926] |
Sat, 17 October 2015 20:34  |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Hello all,
My coach is now safe in my driveway in Montreal (Quebec) after a 450 mile trip home from Brantford Ontario - interrupted by a day spent at a garage in Toronto for some badly needed preventative repairs (among others, a right lower ball joint so loose that a well-aimed kick might have broken the knuckle away from the A arm).
I've been debating taking the PO to task for his duplicity in this forum, but have decided against, if only because it makes me look so stupid for not doing a good enough job enforcing the second clause in the Trust but Verify law. Suffice to say that there is some well disguised, but potentially serious rust in the rear frame extension and the right frame rail, which means that there may more in the bogie frame. I've already been in touch with Dan Stuckey for the frame and David Lenzi for the iffy road holding.
So Johnny Bridges, we may have sister coaches. Mine is a 1976 23" Norris - but it's a side bath. I gather you never managed to get your hands on a Norris wiring diagram? Mine might be different because it apparently underwent a fairly significant facelift by Cinnabar at some point in the past.
I ask for your patience - be prepared for a storm of "how to" and "what is this" questions. First challenge is getting the coach "safetied" and plated in Quebec.
Don't know what the PO did (the wiring all looked stock other than the addition of a CD, a Brake Buddy, a tachometer and an aftermarket radio, but there seems to be real problems with the wiring under the dash - no horn, no backup lights, no idiot lights and the climate control unit has no back lighting.
The PO did divulge that the cruise coach's control didn't work. I figured a hose or a modulator, bit it's more serious than that. Turns out that the original carb has been swapped for an Edelbrock, and the cruise control linkage simply left unconnected. Anyone out there know what has to be done to adapt the stock GM cruise control carb linkage to an Edelbrock?
Gordon Gibson
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288929 is a reply to message #288926] |
Sat, 17 October 2015 22:20  |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Gordon,
Sorry for all the if's. Our collective experience is that seldom do you buy a coach without problems. People selling their coaches are sometimes under financial stress, health issues and are conflicted, so hopeful speech about the coach is often used. If it got you home without other issues I guess you are doing ok. Many of us are electrically challenged. I had flickering lights on speedometer, turn signals. Turn on headlights, and gas gauge read differently. Many other things had to be set right. How else are you going to get to know the coach? I wonder how many have fully functioning dashes, gauges, instrument lighting, label lighting, telltales in the panel. Less than 5% of coaches, just a guess. Don't know how to fix the cruise control problem, but suggest a trip to the auto wrecking yard to scope out brackets that can be modified. If your other instrument panel lights work fine, just try replacing that bulb on your climate control panel. Many would give their eyeteeth for a functioning climate control panel, notwithstanding the lighting issue.
Enjoy your coach and leave it in better shape for the next owner. Being up north, a galvanized frame would give peace of mind. There hasn't been any real comprehensive rust prevention program for the entire load bearing portion of the frame including the front subframe that I recall. The discussion has been at the level of not coating anything with anything that could give off dangerous fumes if welded. Some squirt ATF before each trip on everything except mufflers and tailpipes or anything else that could get hot. You are in the salt zone, and maybe the P.O. got a rusty coach to begin with, with the rust camouflage in place.
I know you will be getting all these things taken care of in time.
Best,
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288930 is a reply to message #288929] |
Sat, 17 October 2015 22:43 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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On the electrical problems just pick one of them and go after it until you fix it. Many times fixing one of the them also fixes other problems on your list.
On dash problems, do not forget the ground side of the circuits. There is a ground wire running from the aluminum plate that everything is mounted in the instrument panel, to the aluminum plate under the passenger side hood. The isolator and boost solenoids are mounted on the under hood plate. This wire is many times is loose or oxidized on the dash end. There is also a second wire from the under hood aluminum plate to the negative side of the battery. Make sure both wires are intact and are making a good connection.
Good luck.
Ken B
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288939 is a reply to message #288929] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 09:37 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Carey,
Thanks for your thoughts. Most of the frame sections Brian Stuckey manufactures are available in either galvanized un-galvalized. Given the fairly minor price difference, I will probably opt for the former. Montreal is probably the rust bucket capital of North America - we dump a phenomenal amount of salt on our roads, which leads to crumbling infrastructure......and cars eaten away by tin worm. So I am altogether too familiar with rust - which makes it even more embarrassing to have spotted this. Got a good look at the front section of the frame (under the battery tray, etc.), and since it was pristine, I assumed the back would be in a similar state.
I have my cars done by one of only 2 APA-approved rust proofers. Its run by Barry - a Jamaican guy who's background includes designing a rust-proofing program for British military vehicles. He makes up 2 different cocktails of a mixture of grease and ATF. One of them is thin - he does a first spray with this so that it dribbles into all of the cracks, then overshoots with a much thicker spray that is closer to your more conventional tar-based undercoating, but still a mixture or grease and ATF. The second coat "protects" the first. He typically spends 5 - 6 hours doing a car, because he doesn't drill holes - takes everything apart piece by piece. He has long flexible wants to get up into roof pillars, box sections, etc. The result: cars that just don't rust even in Montreal. Barry tools around in a 50-year old Volvo that doesn't have a spot of rust. When I get the metalwork repaired, I will get Barry to shoot the undercarriage of the coach.
Gordon
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288940 is a reply to message #288930] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 09:45 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken
First priority is the horn and backup lights in order to pass the safety inspection required to get the coach plated in Quebec.
I read somewhere on this group that the windshield has to be taken out to get the top of the dash off. Can most of the dash wiring be accessed from the plate underneath the dash that can be unscrewed?
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288942 is a reply to message #288940] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 10:00 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You do not have to remove the windshield to get to the back of the dash panel wiring. The backside plastic panel has two Phillips head screw in their respective corners. The one on the left side will require a very short Phillips head to remove. After you have taken out the screws, the panel should lift up about 1 inch, then you can carefully slide it out. The panel has a lip on it that will give you fits, if it is intact. I think most people have trimmed the upper left hand corner of the lip down for easier removal of the panel.
Makes the wiring easier to get to. Notice that I said easier, not easy. Still a hassle.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288944 is a reply to message #288942] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 10:10 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1500
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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The plastic support bars on the back side of the instrument panel can be
very brittle and just looking at them will cause one to break:-(
On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
> You do not have to remove the windshield to get to the back of the dash
> panel wiring. The backside plastic panel has two Phillips head screw in
> their
> respective corners. The one on the left side will require a very short
> Phillips head to remove. After you have taken out the screws, the panel
> should lift up about 1 inch, then you can carefully slide it out. The
> panel has a lip on it that will give you fits, if it is intact. I think
> most
> people have trimmed the upper left hand corner of the lip down for easier
> removal of the panel.
> Makes the wiring easier to get to. Notice that I said easier, not easy.
> Still a hassle.
> Tom, MS II
> --
> 1975 GMC Avion
> KA4CSG
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288962 is a reply to message #288930] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 18:32 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken. Just printed out the Transmode wiring diagram, which will probably help. The fact that so many electrical things (horn, backup lights, telltale lights, windshield washer, dash lights to "right side") are inoperative makes me think that it's a problem of the type that you alluded to rather than a whole bunch of individual problems.
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288963 is a reply to message #288940] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 18:40 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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If you have the early model steering wheel it is probably a rusty horn ring under the square cover. Back up lights is usually the switch out of adjustment. It is in the neutral safety switch, lowest switch on steering column next to floor board. 2screws to loosen and it will slide sideways. Engine off, key on, gear selector in reverse. Slide till back up lights stay on and tighten screws. Put in neutral and make sure it will start, also check in park. I would check the bulbs first as they do get dirty and lose ground sometimes.
gibsongo wrote on Sun, 18 October 2015 10:45Thanks Ken
First priority is the horn and backup lights in order to pass the safety inspection required to get the coach plated in Quebec.
I read somewhere on this group that the windshield has to be taken out to get the top of the dash off. Can most of the dash wiring be accessed from the plate underneath the dash that can be unscrewed?
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: New Cult Member - Johnny B, we have sister coaches [message #288965 is a reply to message #288926] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 18:55 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Welcome to the Norris club:) Rather than keep the Edelbrock and hook up the cruise linkage, see if you can get the correct Q-Jet, it will run better, both off idle and during acceleration. However, the square-bore is fitted to so many aftermarket applications, they have linkage parts for about everything. Call them and ask for a piece for a GM 70s cruise chain to pull. If yours, like mine, was at some point registered under the Norris number on the sticker by the driver's knee, I hope it's easier to reregister as a TZE in Canada than it has been so far in Georgia. One caveat - Norris used regular unstranded Romex for the house 110V wiring, rather than stranded wire. Be prepared to tighten plugs and switches regularly, they loosen. They did, however, use good cabinetry and such. There's not a lot of 'spit-board' there. Get a right-angle Philips screwdriver and the rear cover on the dash unscrews fairly easily. Bring your coach to the GMCMI in Dothan next year, we'd all like to see it. What genset is in it?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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