Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem
| Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287630] |
Sun, 20 September 2015 15:40  |
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JShot
Messages: 485
Registered: October 2006
Location: NW Ohio
Karma: 0
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Just returned from a rally, about 100 miles. Were unloading, and wife says something is "hissing" near the front. Open her hood, and the battery sounds like it's boiling. A check with the IR shows about 190* on the battery case.
We do not have any house batteries, only the engine starting - usually plug in to ac when camping. The isolator has 5 posts, from a PO when there WERE house batteries. There is a combiner across the correct terminals of the isolator. We have an APC installed.
The PD 9245 in the rear feeds the house 12volt fuse panel, AND ALSO the center terminal of the isolator in the front via a long #8 wire.
Obviously nothing is coming from the PD while going down the road, so I'm assuming all of this has something to do with the alternator system.
Ideas?
TIA, as always
Shot
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287631 is a reply to message #287630] |
Sun, 20 September 2015 15:45  |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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JShot wrote on Sun, 20 September 2015 15:40Just returned from a rally, about 100 miles. Were unloading, and wife says something is "hissing" near the front. Open her hood, and the battery sounds like it's boiling. A check with the IR shows about 190* on the battery case.
We do not have any house batteries, only the engine starting - usually plug in to ac when camping. The isolator has 5 posts, from a PO when there WERE house batteries. There is a combiner across the correct terminals of the isolator. We have an APC installed.
The PD 9245 in the rear feeds the house 12volt fuse panel, AND ALSO the center terminal of the isolator in the front via a long #8 wire.
Obviously nothing is coming from the PD while going down the road, so I'm assuming all of this has something to do with the alternator system.
Ideas?
TIA, as always
Shot You could have a short circuit in one or more cells. Your alternator is trying to keep the voltage up and that short circuit is sucking a boatload of current and generating a lot of heat in that battery. Which is history, by the way.
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287637 is a reply to message #287635] |
Sun, 20 September 2015 17:01 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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If still under Wal-Mart warranty - take it back. That is why you get a warranty. Perhaps your alternator did kill it, but hot weather actually kills more batteries than cold weather. If your alternator kills the next one - take it back (get my drift). Then, consider replacing the alternator.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287640 is a reply to message #287630] |
Sun, 20 September 2015 17:43 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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JShot wrote on Sun, 20 September 2015 16:40Just returned from a rally, about 100 miles. Were unloading, and wife says something is "hissing" near the front. Open her hood, and the battery sounds like it's boiling. A check with the IR shows about 190* on the battery case.
We do not have any house batteries, only the engine starting - usually plug in to ac when camping. The isolator has 5 posts, from a PO when there WERE house batteries. There is a combiner across the correct terminals of the isolator. We have an APC installed.
The PD 9245 in the rear feeds the house 12volt fuse panel, AND ALSO the center terminal of the isolator in the front via a long #8 wire.
Obviously nothing is coming from the PD while going down the road, so I'm assuming all of this has something to do with the alternator system.
Ideas?
TIA, as always
Shot
Shot,
Yes, I have an idea - several actually.
Disconnect the battery and let it cool down.
Let it cool off. When it is cool enough to get near, put a volt meter on it. If it is less than 12.6, it is toast. When you do that, come back and tell us because the situation may depend on the answer.
I am 3 sun hours west, but I will be looking for your answer.
Matt - going back in to see if I won a Manny trans.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287648 is a reply to message #287645] |
Sun, 20 September 2015 21:02 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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5 post isolator? My guess it handles only 3 batteries, as follows, 3 output posts to batteries, one input post for alternator, and one post used for a different alternator set-up. My 5 post isolator controls flow to three batteries, engine battery, and 2 isolated house batteries, with one post connected to nothing.
I believe the wire run from the PD converter through the isolator is not a good idea. The PD should only produce 12 v ( actualy a little more, 13.5 v) while plugged into shore power. Since it's output is regulated by the PD, it should not be routed through the diode internal to the isolator. It does not need the voltage drop, and will produce a "false" sense to the circuit in the PD. Plus, it will not fully charge the battery.
If the intent is to charge the engine battery while attached to shore power, wire the PD directly to the engine battery.
If you only have an engine battery, wire the output from the alternator directly to the engine battery.
With only one battery, what is the other end of the combiner attached to? Combiners combine batteries, and the red wires should be to the positive battery posts of each battery.
You really should have a house battery in line with the PD, it stores power for the house system and acts as a buffer between the PD and the house demands.
I believe this to be accurate, and Matt can point out the errors of my ways.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287657 is a reply to message #287648] |
Sun, 20 September 2015 22:14 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Be sure and do all electrical system checking with a known-good fully charged battery. If you don't have a load tester for automotive batteries (I call them toasters), you can get one from Harbor Freight for less than 20 bucks. Otherwise, truck it on down to Wally World and get them to test it. You might want to get another battery while you're there and use that for testing the charging system and then use it for your "house" battery after you get the system sorted out.
The charger/converter should have a battery hooked directly to it, no isolators or other devices in between them.
As someone said, you have described the symptoms of a shorted cell in the battery, that would make plenty of heat and hopefully did not toast the alternator.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
[Updated on: Mon, 21 September 2015 21:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287719 is a reply to message #287657] |
Mon, 21 September 2015 17:26 |
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JShot
Messages: 485
Registered: October 2006
Location: NW Ohio
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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OK, here's the latest. I really appreciate the input from all of you.
The coach DID have two, totally dead batteries in the Onan compartment when we bought the coach. I have no clue if they were regular or deep cycle. There are some wires back there, and there are battery cables that, when hooked up to a tractor battery, will start the Onan.
The "hot" engine battery was cooled down this morning, and the voltage was 12.57 on a good VOM. I pulled the battery, and filled it with distilled water to the split rings. All cells were very low, obviously. I have it on a Battery Minder now, and it's reading 12.45, and slowly increasing. So maybe it's ok. I found the sales slip - it's 5 years old - no warranty.
I put the combiner on the system some years ago, to help keep the starting battery charged up when we were camped, and running the dash radio. Also because this is the only battery in the coach, every thing I've hooked up (reefer, air level compressor, etc,) has been run off of the starting battery. So I figured a combiner would be a good idea. And yes, I did use the alligator clip idea for the 1st year.
Would the best idea be to get a regular, 3 post isolator instead of the existing 5 post? And keep the combiner?
I don't have a load tester, but can haul the battery to the nearest WW tonight, and have them test it.
And I hate to say this, but don't quite know how to test the alternator output - what wire/terminal, what speed, what should it read, etc.
I really don't know where to go from here. I have a list of the wires that are hooked to the existing 5 post isolator, but I don't like to read that stuff on the forum, and I'm sure you don't either. It's probably better to see the wiring in person.
Tom, got your PM. It's a Sure Power 12033A. What I have connected to it doesn't match what you sent for connections.
John
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287735 is a reply to message #287729] |
Mon, 21 September 2015 21:37 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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A very important rule I learned while servicing batteries for aircraft that is also true for any unsealed lead-acid type of battery: Never fill the battery with water or electrolyte to the split rings before charging. The night shift mechanics would do this, then hook it up to the charger, and when I came in to work in the A.M. the battery would be overflowing and flooding the containment area on the aircraft batteries. The automotive batteries would overflow and cover the workbench with diluted acid. What a mess. Always make sure the plates are covered and NO MORE before charging. The level will increase as the battery is charged. After it is fully charged, add ELECTROLYTE (already mixed) to bring the level to the split rings.
The voltage will drop when the electrolyte is diluted with water, and there is no way to un-dilute it except to dump it out and replace it with new electrolyte. A slightly hazardous operation that will probably not save the battery. Engaging in these types of tasks will require a hydrometer, a load testing device, and a good quality battery charger that has a fairly accurate meter to measure charge current.
Since that battery got to 190 degrees, it is almost guaranteed to be ready to recycle, so start looking for a sale...
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Need help with a battery wiring (?) problem [message #287737 is a reply to message #287735] |
Mon, 21 September 2015 21:43 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Isolator is a passive device. It really does not know how many batteries are attached. No real need to replace a 5 (3 battery) post isolator with a 3 (2 battery) post isolater. An unconnected post will do nothing.
My Surepower has a post labeling decal on the side. The slimmest post is the one not to connect anything to.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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