| [GMCnet] Which TBI to Use [message #286912] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 05:16  |
Advanced Concept Ener
Messages: 112
Registered: December 2014
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Thanks George. I went to site and look at some of the posts. The nuclear engineer in me was very interested but the practical marine and instrument engineer in me said KISS. At my age I could prolly get it to work but a week later wouldn't remember what I did. I really need plug and play. Need something that will automatically retard spark when fuel or altitude has the engine running rough. Also have to consider support network which is why I was thinking that Jim K MSD might be a good choice but can't seem to find full story on it. Maybe I have to see if I can find an install and setup manual online. How do these systems interface to HEI? Inputting a typical example good curve into software does not solve fuel change or altitude issue unless you have multiple curves which seems sloppy and difficult to implement on the fly. Am I looking for something that doesn't exist yet and that's why you guys are experimenting?
Jon Darcy ACES
North Jersey 76 stretch, flares, 4 bag, Alcoa's, bunkhouse,MAC Dash
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which TBI to Use [message #286916 is a reply to message #286912] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 06:00  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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I suggest you talk to miguel He has more than 70 atomic installs
I have 4 Howell systems. 2 running - one atomic conversion
http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2014/12/my-atomic-1973-23.html?m=1
Which I love. More later
Erf
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015, Advanced Concept Energy Solutions <
aces4nrg@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks George. I went to site and look at some of the posts. The nuclear
> engineer in me was very interested but the practical marine and instrument
> engineer in me said KISS. At my age I could prolly get it to work but a
> week later wouldn't remember what I did. I really need plug and play.
> Need something that will automatically retard spark when fuel or altitude
> has the engine running rough. Also have to consider support network which
> is why I was thinking that Jim K MSD might be a good choice but can't seem
> to find full story on it. Maybe I have to see if I can find an install and
> setup manual online. How do these systems interface to HEI? Inputting a
> typical example good curve into software does not solve fuel change or
> altitude issue unless you have multiple curves which seems sloppy and
> difficult to implement on the fly. Am I looking for something that doesn't
> exist yet and that's why you guys are experimenting?
>
> Jon Darcy ACES
> North Jersey 76 stretch, flares, 4 bag, Alcoa's, bunkhouse,MAC Dash
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which TBI to Use [message #286917 is a reply to message #286912] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 06:13 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
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MSD makes a "ping" detector set-up that changes the ignition timing based on pre-ignition. Perhaps that would do what you are looking for. Works with HEI. Does not influence fuel delivery at all. Designed in carb days. My old coach had one, but here in flat Alabama, not much of a problem. The coach came from Denver, not so flat.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which TBI to Use [message #286971 is a reply to message #286912] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 18:33 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
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Advanced Concept Ener wrote on Wed, 09 September 2015 03:16Thanks George. I went to site and look at some of the posts. The nuclear engineer in me was very interested but the practical marine and instrument engineer in me said KISS. At my age I could prolly get it to work but a week later wouldn't remember what I did. I really need plug and play. Need something that will automatically retard spark when fuel or altitude has the engine running rough. Also have to consider support network which is why I was thinking that Jim K MSD might be a good choice but can't seem to find full story on it. Maybe I have to see if I can find an install and setup manual online. How do these systems interface to HEI? Inputting a typical example good curve into software does not solve fuel change or altitude issue unless you have multiple curves which seems sloppy and difficult to implement on the fly. Am I looking for something that doesn't exist yet and that's why you guys are experimenting?
Jon Darcy ACES
North Jersey 76 stretch, flares, 4 bag, Alcoa's, bunkhouse,MAC Dash
Perhaps I misled. The EBL does retard spark on hills, if necessary, and changes fuel mixtures based on altitude, pull and temperature. It is fairly plug and play and the tuning that some of us like to do is to get it well adapted to individual coaches. You are right about the curve needing to adapt to elevation (and fuel). The EBL uses GM tables with some nice additions. We try to set spark tables so the knock sensor is very rarely triggered. As mentioned above this can be very different for various coaches. One spark table does not fit all. Mostly all but we find some engines ping at certain RPMs and throttle and other engines don't. This is when we make some changes for the individuals. The EFI forum likes to help with these things, via e-mail. A driving log can be shared and others can see where problems occur and send out changes that can be installed if a few moments. EBL can have eight different bins (sets of tables) installed at any one time. I have been known to have a special one for 6K+ altitude. Don't have to but did it because I can.
When learning to tune we found some tables that were apparently set to GM parameters and I for one do not mess with them at all. One example is when Power Enrichment begins. This is like the power valve on a carburetor. When I saw it can begin to work at 46% throttle at 2400 RPMs I thought, What?! I supposed we were worried about Wide Open Throttle. Exhaust temperature gauges showed that extreme heat cylinder starts long, long before WOT. (40% throttle at 1600 RPMs.)
The Atomic does not use a knock sensor, that I can find: http://www.msdperformance.com/AtomicEFI/Diagrams.aspx Look at the controlled spark diagram.
Without a knock sensor the spark control won't be any better than a well curved distributor if knock/ping begins. If the weather is warm, the hill steep, the gas a bit lacking, it may ping. If it does, the computer won't know it. I would assume you could add an MSD distributor retard system that was mentioned above. Lots can be done and it is only $$. Ha.
MSD are the makers of Atomic EFI. I am not sure if the spark can be used with HEI. I have only watched YouTube and they were created by MSD. They were using MSD distributors but that means little. They do have an interesting feature on the MSD distributor which allows you to adjust the pointer on the rotor. With EBL we tend to run pretty advanced spark. This can make the pointer moving toward the "edge" of the lugs in the cap. It has never been a problem for me, but I found it an interesting concept. On setup, they moved the pointer 15* if I remember right.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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