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Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #284969] Sat, 15 August 2015 10:57 Go to next message
Dan is currently offline  Dan   United States
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Registered: August 2014
Location: Allentown, NJ
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Hello,

Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.

Dan


Dan DeLuca 1978 Eleganza II (http://imgur.com/gallery/YFHhK) Parked at Evil Monkey Farm in Allentown, New Jersey

[Updated on: Sat, 15 August 2015 11:18]

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Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #284987 is a reply to message #284969] Sat, 15 August 2015 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wally is currently offline  wally   United States
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
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Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 10:57
Hello,

Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.

Dan

On ours the sender wires run back from the dash area under the big slider window on the drivers side then go down thru the floor about at the rear of the bigger window. I think most of the time its the senders not the wires causing the problem. From what I remember reading.


Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285013 is a reply to message #284987] Sat, 15 August 2015 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kelvin is currently offline  kelvin   United States
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
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On 8/15/2015 11:10 AM, Wally Anderson wrote:
> Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 10:57
>> Hello,
>>
>> Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been
>> pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this
>> point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.
>>
>> Dan

Usually a gauge pinned to "Full" means the sender wire is shorted to
ground. At least that's how it's always been in any car I've worked
on. I assume the same for a GMC.

Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR

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Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285015 is a reply to message #284969] Sat, 15 August 2015 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 09:57
Hello,

Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.

Dan

Does it do that with the fuel tank selector in either position?


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285063 is a reply to message #284969] Sat, 15 August 2015 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Dan,

The GM gauges of the period are all 3~90 ohm. For the fuel gauges they are 90 = full, 3 = Empty.
Personally, I think it was 5hi7 brain stupid.
If the lead gets broken, the gauge reports Full......

I kind of hate to tell you this, but the most common place for the system to go open is in the sender inside the tank.
So, try all the external connections first. Then use a jumper set to short the gauge lead to the frame and see if it goes to empty.

You can remove the sender and solder a wire lead from the top of the potentiometer to the terminal and it may work for about a year until the ethanol gets to the internal connections of the pot, there is no saving that one.

I am told there is a company in California that will rebuild them for a price that is better than new replacement, but that is all I know about that.

Matt




Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 11:57
Hello,

Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.

Dan



Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285068 is a reply to message #285013] Sat, 15 August 2015 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim at the Co-op is currently offline  Jim at the Co-op   United States
Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida
Karma: 2
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Mat, Jeff Sirum sell new senders, he supplies them to me, I think Jim K. and about every dealer.  Keep the $ in the group.  All else you would need is a new seal which I think all the dealers can supply.  If you have gone through the crap to pull tjose gddhjbvffg ¥% ₩`¤♡♥♡%==₩₩₩~~% tanks, just replace the parts.


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: Matt Colie
Date: 08/15/2015 8:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Sender Wire Cut

Dan,

The GM gauges of the period are all 3~90 ohm.  For the fuel gauges they are 90 = full, 3 = Empty.
Personally, I think it was 5hi7 brain stupid. 
If the lead gets broken, the gauge reports Full......

I kind of hate to tell you this, but the most common place for the system to go open is in the sender inside the tank.
So, try all the external connections first.  Then use a jumper set to short the gauge lead to the frame and see if it goes to empty.

You can remove the sender and solder a wire lead from the top of the potentiometer to the terminal and it may work for about a year until the ethanol
gets to the internal connections of the pot, there is no saving that one. 

I am told there is a company in California that will rebuild them for a price that is better than new replacement, but that is all I know about that.


Matt

 


Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 11:57
> Hello,
>
> Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty.  This year however my gauge as been
> pinned to full.  I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut.  Is there a common place for this to occur?  Just curious because at this
> point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.  
>
> Dan


--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285070 is a reply to message #285068] Sat, 15 August 2015 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Jim,

I do appreciate what you and the other dedicated suppliers do, and I have purchased from all of you at one time or another. But, I was sold down the river by the abrogation of the bankruptcy laws and so price for everything will now be a an issue for us for as long as we live. The depression here has killed my business and my only remaining income. (I am too old to hire as anything but an entry way greeter and they didn't.)

The only replacement TZE sender I have ever seen had the attached tubes too long and mis-located. This made reusing the tank hoses problematic. I was shocked when the owner told me what he had paid as I had very recently purchased two, one for a 73 Corvette and another for a 68 Suburban. Together they were way less than that and they came with the ring and new gasket at that price.

If the owner can afford the down time to save more than the cost of a whole tank of fuel, should that choice never be offered?? I have only heard of this rebuilder, I do not have his contact information.

I have had my tanks down several times with the coach jacked up in my barn (and once on the gravel outside). It is just not that tough a job, if it is done with some forethought.

Matt


Jim at the Co-op wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 21:01
Mat, Jeff Sirum sell new senders, he supplies them to me, I think Jim K. and about every dealer.  Keep the $ in the group.  All else you would need is a new seal which I think all the dealers can supply.  If you have gone through the crap to pull tjose gddhjbvffg ¥% ₩`¤♡♥♡%==₩₩₩~~% tanks, just replace the parts.



Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285071 is a reply to message #285063] Sat, 15 August 2015 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Hey Matt

Here is a post from 2013 by John Hunt....

I was thinking it would be better to just replace the very old senders with new ones though the cost seemed kinda high. That was until I read several posts indicating replacement sender's quality leave something to be desired.

Though I live an hour away, I shipped my incredibly rusty and not-working senders to these guys here in Riverside CA: http://speedometershop.com

They are one of those shops that have been working on auto instruments since the '50s and used to calibrate equipment for race shops around Riverside Raceway back before it became a sea of tract homes.

They rebuilt my senders the same day they received them and had them back to me faster than I would have been able to drive back and get 'em. Price was a lot less than new senders, and mine seem to be working great. JWID.

John

Orange County, CA
'76 Eleganza II

1976 Eleganza II, 1969 Lotus Elan Plus 2, 1978 Merlyn Formula Ford, 1981 Lola Sports 2000.



Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 19:23
Dan,

The GM gauges of the period are all 3~90 ohm. For the fuel gauges they are 90 = full, 3 = Empty.
Personally, I think it was 5hi7 brain stupid.
If the lead gets broken, the gauge reports Full......

I kind of hate to tell you this, but the most common place for the system to go open is in the sender inside the tank.
So, try all the external connections first. Then use a jumper set to short the gauge lead to the frame and see if it goes to empty.

You can remove the sender and solder a wire lead from the top of the potentiometer to the terminal and it may work for about a year until the ethanol gets to the internal connections of the pot, there is no saving that one.

I am told there is a company in California that will rebuild them for a price that is better than new replacement, but that is all I know about that.

Matt




Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 11:57
Hello,

Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.

Dan



Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285072 is a reply to message #285071] Sat, 15 August 2015 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Matt

Here is another -- in Howell, MI.

http://www.bobsspeedometer.com/1/120/services.asp

Dennis

Dennis S wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 21:33
Hey Matt

Here is a post from 2013 by John Hunt....

I was thinking it would be better to just replace the very old senders with new ones though the cost seemed kinda high. That was until I read several posts indicating replacement sender's quality leave something to be desired.

Though I live an hour away, I shipped my incredibly rusty and not-working senders to these guys here in Riverside CA: http://speedometershop.com

They are one of those shops that have been working on auto instruments since the '50s and used to calibrate equipment for race shops around Riverside Raceway back before it became a sea of tract homes.

They rebuilt my senders the same day they received them and had them back to me faster than I would have been able to drive back and get 'em. Price was a lot less than new senders, and mine seem to be working great. JWID.

John

Orange County, CA
'76 Eleganza II

1976 Eleganza II, 1969 Lotus Elan Plus 2, 1978 Merlyn Formula Ford, 1981 Lola Sports 2000.



Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 19:23
Dan,

The GM gauges of the period are all 3~90 ohm. For the fuel gauges they are 90 = full, 3 = Empty.
Personally, I think it was 5hi7 brain stupid.
If the lead gets broken, the gauge reports Full......

I kind of hate to tell you this, but the most common place for the system to go open is in the sender inside the tank.
So, try all the external connections first. Then use a jumper set to short the gauge lead to the frame and see if it goes to empty.

You can remove the sender and solder a wire lead from the top of the potentiometer to the terminal and it may work for about a year until the ethanol gets to the internal connections of the pot, there is no saving that one.

I am told there is a company in California that will rebuild them for a price that is better than new replacement, but that is all I know about that.

Matt




Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 11:57
Hello,

Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty. This year however my gauge as been pinned to full. I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut. Is there a common place for this to occur? Just curious because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.

Dan



Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285092 is a reply to message #285013] Sun, 16 August 2015 05:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim at the Co-op is currently offline  Jim at the Co-op   United States
Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Matt and others,

These are ild machines with all the systems in your house AND every concern in your car.  Its not complicated but with soooo many things to keep going, if you rig things you eill always be working on it.  What is your time worth, that's the only thing for sure we only have a certain amount of.  Dropping fuel tanks on your back is something you will only want to do once.  Ehen you expend all of. That energy, buyinf one new sender (you only need 1) is the cheap part of the job.  The senders you GMC vendors have work pretty good, why give you money what ever much to someone outside of our community?  No one made you buy your coach so now its your job to keep it up.  What will the next owner of your coach say about your work after you sell it.  Remember, we come and go but the coach stays.  Do a repair right


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: Dennis Sexton
Date: 08/15/2015 10:37 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Sender Wire Cut

Matt

Here is another -- in Howell, MI.

http://www.bobsspeedometer.com/1/120/services.asp

Dennis

Dennis S wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 21:33
> Hey Matt
>
> Here is a post from 2013 by John Hunt....
>
> I was thinking it would be better to just replace the very old senders with new ones though the cost seemed kinda high. That was until I read
> several posts indicating replacement sender's quality leave something to be desired.
>
> Though I live an hour away, I shipped my incredibly rusty and not-working senders to these guys here in Riverside CA: http://speedometershop.com
>
> They are one of those shops that have been working on auto instruments since the '50s and used to calibrate equipment for race shops around
> Riverside Raceway back before it became a sea of tract homes.
>
> They rebuilt my senders the same day they received them and had them back to me faster than I would have been able to drive back and get 'em.
> Price was a lot less than new senders, and mine seem to be working great. JWID.
>
> John
> Orange County, CA
> '76 Eleganza II
>
> 1976 Eleganza II, 1969 Lotus Elan Plus 2, 1978 Merlyn Formula Ford, 1981 Lola Sports 2000.
>
>
>
> Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 19:23
>> Dan,
>>
>> The GM gauges of the period are all 3~90 ohm.  For the fuel gauges they are 90 = full, 3 = Empty.
>> Personally, I think it was 5hi7 brain stupid. 
>> If the lead gets broken, the gauge reports Full......
>>
>> I kind of hate to tell you this, but the most common place for the system to go open is in the sender inside the tank.
>> So, try all the external connections first.  Then use a jumper set to short the gauge lead to the frame and see if it goes to empty.
>>
>> You can remove the sender and solder a wire lead from the top of the potentiometer to the terminal and it may work for about a year until the
>> ethanol gets to the internal connections of the pot, there is no saving that one. 
>>
>> I am told there is a company in California that will rebuild them for a price that is better than new replacement, but that is all I know
>> about that.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>   
>>
>>
>> Dan wrote on Sat, 15 August 2015 11:57
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Last year my fuel gauge gave me a somewhat helpful three part reading of full/less full/ somewhat empty.  This year however my gauge as
>>> been pinned to full.  I understand this means that the sender wire must be cut.  Is there a common place for this to occur?  Just curious
>>> because at this point it is not important enough for me to climb under the coach again and search blindly for the wire.  
>>>
>>> Dan

--
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Germantown, TN

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Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285501 is a reply to message #284969] Thu, 20 August 2015 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zhagrieb is currently offline  zhagrieb   United States
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Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
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Senior Member
Dan, does the gage read full in both the main and aux switch positions? If so your problem may not be a sender. There is a sender in each tank and each has its own wire up to the tank selector switch. If you look at the back of the switch you'll see 3 contacts on one side, two on the other. The 3 contacts are for the fuel gage, the top and bottom contacts come from the senders, the middle goes to the gage. Pull the center one off, if the gage stays the same, look for a problem between the switch and the gage. If the gage changes, remove the wires to the senders, one at a time, and hold each, again one at a time, against the wire from the gage. If the gage shows somewhere between empty and full the switch is probably bad.

Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG '73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'

[Updated on: Thu, 20 August 2015 21:25]

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Re: Fuel Sender Wire Cut [message #285503 is a reply to message #285501] Thu, 20 August 2015 22:14 Go to previous message
Dan is currently offline  Dan   United States
Messages: 99
Registered: August 2014
Location: Allentown, NJ
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Thanks, thats helpful. Right now its brimmed in the driveway but we will be taking it down to elks neck in Maryland this weekend. I will see if switching the selector has any effect then I will follow your procedure!

Dan


Dan DeLuca 1978 Eleganza II (http://imgur.com/gallery/YFHhK) Parked at Evil Monkey Farm in Allentown, New Jersey
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