Finding those timing marks [message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 15:57 |
|
thainglo
Messages: 132 Registered: March 2015 Location: Iowa
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm going my new coach piece by piece, just wrapping up rear brake rebuild and planning to do a thorough tune up back to spec. In preparation, I marked the slit in the balancer since it was accessible and started the hunt for the timing marks. found Gene's photo of what it should look like:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p30454-timing455.html
Hard to get a frame of reference from this shot, I'm guessing it is from looking down on the engine from the driver side of the hatch? Sure not a lot of space to get a good look at the balancer!
I've felt all the way around the balancer from below and couldn't feel anything that I could discern as the pointer. Am I missing something?
If it is gone, any idea why it might have been removed? Water pump replacement maybe?
Lastly, assuming it is gone, does anyone have an extra I could purchase?
Thanks for any help!
Matt
Matt Sladek
1976 Eleganza II
Coralville, IA
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281101 is a reply to message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 16:21 |
|
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt (nice name),
On my 455, the timing marks are best viewed from the top. (Cut a belly board before you even start.)
I have to wedge the timing light between radiator hoses and stuff to see it. It can be a bear.
GM used the same "timing saw" on lots of engines over lots of years. Some are plastic and so are easily broken and lost.
Matt
thainglo wrote on Tue, 30 June 2015 16:57I'm going my new coach piece by piece, just wrapping up rear brake rebuild and planning to do a thorough tune up back to spec. In preparation, I marked the slit in the balancer since it was accessible and started the hunt for the timing marks. found Gene's photo of what it should look like:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p30454-timing455.html
Hard to get a frame of reference from this shot, I'm guessing it is from looking down on the engine from the driver side of the hatch? Sure not a lot of space to get a good look at the balancer!
I've felt all the way around the balancer from below and couldn't feel anything that I could discern as the pointer. Am I missing something?
If it is gone, any idea why it might have been removed? Water pump replacement maybe?
Lastly, assuming it is gone, does anyone have an extra I could purchase?
Thanks for any help!
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
Re: [GMCnet] Finding those timing marks [message #281103 is a reply to message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 16:21 |
w schurman
Messages: 49 Registered: June 2015
Karma: 1
|
Member |
|
|
An extra coach ??
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Matt Sladek wrote:
> I'm going my new coach piece by piece, just wrapping up rear brake rebuild
> and planning to do a thorough tune up back to spec. In preparation, I
> marked the slit in the balancer since it was accessible and started the
> hunt for the timing marks. found Gene's photo of what it should look like:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p30454-timing455.html
>
> Hard to get a frame of reference from this shot, I'm guessing it is from
> looking down on the engine from the driver side of the hatch? Sure not a
> lot
> of space to get a good look at the balancer!
>
> I've felt all the way around the balancer from below and couldn't feel
> anything that I could discern as the pointer. Am I missing something?
>
> If it is gone, any idea why it might have been removed? Water pump
> replacement maybe?
>
> Lastly, assuming it is gone, does anyone have an extra I could purchase?
>
> Thanks for any help!
> Matt
> --
> Matt Sladek
> 1976 Eleganza II
> Coralville, IA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
William S. Schurman
box 772806
Steamboat Springs, CO
80477
1978 Palm Beach
TZE168V100258
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281114 is a reply to message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 18:24 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085 Registered: October 2008 Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
|
Senior Member |
|
|
thainglo wrote on Tue, 30 June 2015 13:57I'm going my new coach piece by piece, just wrapping up rear brake rebuild and planning to do a thorough tune up back to spec. In preparation, I marked the slit in the balancer since it was accessible and started the hunt for the timing marks. found Gene's photo of what it should look like:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p30454-timing455.html
Hard to get a frame of reference from this shot, I'm guessing it is from looking down on the engine from the driver side of the hatch? Sure not a lot of space to get a good look at the balancer!
I've felt all the way around the balancer from below and couldn't feel anything that I could discern as the pointer. Am I missing something?
If it is gone, any idea why it might have been removed? Water pump replacement maybe?
Lastly, assuming it is gone, does anyone have an extra I could purchase?
Thanks for any help!
Matt
Belly board suggestion really helps. I also rewired my timing light so it can plug into a cigar lighter. Saves looking for 12V. Also, take time to put a white stripe of paint on the timing notch on the balancer.
As far as seeing the little notched guy, it is really hard to see. I doubt it is gone. It might be covered with grease. It is closer to the top than I thought and after standing on my head I finally saw it. No way to read what it says. I have to count notches to set timing. Even then, with hoses and stuff it is difficult to see the notch you need to see. Always seems to be "just around the corner" from where I can see and get the light to shine. Be careful not to get the light or wires in any moving parts... there are lots of them around there.
If it is really gone, I believe JimK has a nylon replacement.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
|
|
|
Re: [GMCnet] Finding those timing marks [message #281121 is a reply to message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 18:58 |
Len Novak
Messages: 676 Registered: February 2004 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The number on the box in front of me says
00419048
http://www.tonkinonlineparts.com/p/Pontiac__Grand-Prix/INDICATOR-Engine-Fron
t-Cover-Engine-Front-Cover-Timing-POINTER-Timing/5841292/00419048.html
http://www.kakapart.com/parts/gm-00419048.html
Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule@Roadrunner.Com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt
Sladek
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:58 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Finding those timing marks
I'm going my new coach piece by piece, just wrapping up rear brake rebuild
and planning to do a thorough tune up back to spec. In preparation, I marked
the slit in the balancer since it was accessible and started the hunt for
the timing marks. found Gene's photo of what it should look like:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p30454-timing455.html
Hard to get a frame of reference from this shot, I'm guessing it is from
looking down on the engine from the driver side of the hatch? Sure not a
lot of space to get a good look at the balancer!
I've felt all the way around the balancer from below and couldn't feel
anything that I could discern as the pointer. Am I missing something?
If it is gone, any idea why it might have been removed? Water pump
replacement maybe?
Lastly, assuming it is gone, does anyone have an extra I could purchase?
Thanks for any help!
Matt
--
Matt Sladek
1976 Eleganza II
Coralville, IA
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6037 / Virus Database: 4365/10131 - Release Date: 06/30/15
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Las Vegas, NV new email: B52sRule@Gmail.com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281125 is a reply to message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 19:32 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt, I made a belly board with about a 6" square on the left front. This covers the alternator and the spinning belt that is RIGHT FIGGING THERE when you're working on the timing. This lets me get much closer to where I need to be without worrying about getting the timing light wires or my arm caught in something. If you can ever find the right saw tooth, you can mark it with some yellow or other bright color fingernail polish.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281146 is a reply to message #281097] |
Tue, 30 June 2015 22:32 |
|
wally
Messages: 643 Registered: August 2004 Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
thainglo wrote on Tue, 30 June 2015 15:57I'm going my new coach piece by piece, just wrapping up rear brake rebuild and planning to do a thorough tune up back to spec. In preparation, I marked the slit in the balancer since it was accessible and started the hunt for the timing marks. found Gene's photo of what it should look like:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p30454-timing455.html
Hard to get a frame of reference from this shot, I'm guessing it is from looking down on the engine from the driver side of the hatch? Sure not a lot of space to get a good look at the balancer!
I've felt all the way around the balancer from below and couldn't feel anything that I could discern as the pointer. Am I missing something?
If it is gone, any idea why it might have been removed? Water pump replacement maybe?
Lastly, assuming it is gone, does anyone have an extra I could purchase?
Thanks for any help!
Matt
Here is a pic of the metal version of the timing tab. This view is from the front of a 455 with the water pump and pulley not present.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p58275-timing-tab.html
To see the tab you look down from the hatch on the drivers side of the water pump, the darn thing is hard to see being almost under the water pump. Looks like this with the belts off. I've dinged a timing light on moving stuff so be careful.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p58276-timing-tab.html
Plastic tab up close with numbers
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p58277-timing-tab.html
HTH
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
[Updated on: Tue, 30 June 2015 22:36] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281153 is a reply to message #281101] |
Wed, 01 July 2015 00:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you still need one and Jim K. does nto have them, Dickpaterson had some on his table at the last rally he attended. Give him a call.
If you do have one installed the left hand most point looking down from the top is 0 degrees. Every point after that is 4 degrees BTDC. 0-4-8-12-16-20 and 24 (I believe)
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281182 is a reply to message #281181] |
Wed, 01 July 2015 11:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have bottles of white out in most of my tool boxes. It works great for marking most things. It is available at Walamrt for around $.99 .
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281186 is a reply to message #281180] |
Wed, 01 July 2015 11:11 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629 Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes it can be installed with balancer on, but it is held on with the stud that mounts the power steering pump. So you have to remove the 3 bolts that mount the pump so you can pull it forward enough to get the stud out. The
Olds timing Mark is specific and is nylon with a pressed in steel spacer.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/dean-26amp-3b-cheri/p50419-ready-to-install.html
You can see it better in the enlarged photo.
thainglo wrote on Wed, 01 July 2015 11:38Thanks for the great tips guys on the belly board, and special thanks to Wally for the photos he posted. They were a HUGE help to confirm that my timing marks are utterly, and completely, missing in action. Will give Dick or Jim a call on getting a replacement. Rob Burkitt pointed me to a Mondello part as well, in case I need that as an option.
At least it looks like the pointer can be installed without removing the balancer. Thank goodness for that!
Matt
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281202 is a reply to message #281097] |
Wed, 01 July 2015 14:56 |
bwevers
Messages: 597 Registered: October 2010 Location: San Jose
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My waterpump blocks the view of timing marks beyond 8º.
So I marked the pulley 10º ATDC from the slit. Now
when my mark is at TDC I have 10º of advance.
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Finding those timing marks [message #281232 is a reply to message #281097] |
Wed, 01 July 2015 20:57 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458 Registered: September 2013 Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It is possible to create your own timing mark and pointer in another more accessible location once you verify TDC with a piston stop [which is always a good idea in any case.]
You can use a timing tape from any engine with hte same diameter balancer. They don't last but you can make your hash marks with it as a reference
76 Glenbrook
|
|
|
|
|
Re: [GMCnet] Finding those timing marks [message #281255 is a reply to message #281242] |
Thu, 02 July 2015 08:13 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Guys,
This sounds like a "fiber optic' timing light?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Sladek
James Hupy wrote on Wed, 01 July 2015 17:56
> I have a borescope that will fit in a hole smaller than 3/8". I agree that
> a timing light is a pita to use on a gmc. Dangerous also. I thought about
> making a sheath for the scope that you could snake down near the pointer
> for viewing and just point the timing light so it illuminates the marks. I
> can lay the display near the distributor for adjustments and not put myl
> head near those moving parts up front. EZ PZ. Next time I time something,
> I'm gonna try it.
I've got one of those little guys in the shop as well. Great idea, will give that a try and report back.
--
Matt list
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|