Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability"
| 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 12:15  |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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I have been lurking this site for far too long (more than 2 years). Finally sold my "stick and staple" 28" Class C ( a 1988 Triple E Empress), which has served the family well over the last 14 years - lots of great memories. Now the time has come to buy its replacement....which hopefully will be a GMC.
My wife wants something smaller (an RV that could easily navigate parking lots, city driving, etc. - we don't want to travel with a Toad), newer and more reliable. Her preference would be for a minie winny or sprinter-based RV. I am trying to sell her on the idea that a properly-restored GMC could be just as reliable as a newish RV, and just as drivable as an $80K sprinter.
I fear that if my proposal for a replacement is a 26" GMC, she will nix it because it is only 2 feet shorter than the Class C we just got rid of. While a 23" might be easier to sell to her, they are few and far between, particularly since I don't want a rear-bath model. So my question is whether a 23" would really be materially easier to maneuver around in the city, the Wally-world parking lot, etc. To me, an additional 3 feet in length would make little or no difference, but then again, I haven't driven either a 23" or a 26" GMC, so I am soliciting opinions from the group of resident experts. My selling arguments will also incorporate the fact that a GMC would be lower to the ground and narrower (I think)than a typical Class C, and hence easier for her to drive. Is this a fact, or am I just blowing smoke here?
Finally, I have never actually even been inside a GMC, since most of the rallies and conventions I have read about on this site have been a long, long way from Montreal. Are there any GMC owners out there within a 50 mile radius around Montreal that would be willing to let me visit their coach and take me for a spin around the block?
Much thanks in advance to all for your comments and thoughts.
Gordon Gibson
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280497 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 14:47  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Good inquiry. We all have our own ideas on what we need.
Generally, the GMC is as easy to drive as any other RV type vehicle. Many owners travel without a toad, and just pull up stakes when they go to the store or out to dinner.
Do not think just because it is new, that it is more reliable. I had a friend with his new MB based RV, on it's initial voyage, lose the computer that controlled everything. Sure, it was under warranty, nearest dealer was 800 miles. Imagine doing that at a fixed 30 mph. Not a happy camper. P.S. there are only 120 dealers equipped to work on the MB based RV vehicles in the lower 48.
If you are a reasonable, mechanic minded person, and can follow the repair manuals, most every thing is straight forward. Parts are not that difficult.
You did not say any preference for the interior, but if I had to have another GMC, I would chase a twin bed model. Much easier for those middle of the night runs.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280498 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 14:51 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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gibsongo wrote on Mon, 22 June 2015 12:15I have been lurking this site for far too long (more than 2 years). Finally sold my "stick and staple" 28" Class C ( a 1988 Triple E Empress), which has served the family well over the last 14 years - lots of great memories. Now the time has come to buy its replacement....which hopefully will be a GMC.
My wife wants something smaller (an RV that could easily navigate parking lots, city driving, etc. - we don't want to travel with a Toad), newer and more reliable. Her preference would be for a minie winny or sprinter-based RV. I am trying to sell her on the idea that a properly-restored GMC could be just as reliable as a newish RV, and just as drivable as an $80K sprinter.
I fear that if my proposal for a replacement is a 26" GMC, she will nix it because it is only 2 feet shorter than the Class C we just got rid of. While a 23" might be easier to sell to her, they are few and far between, particularly since I don't want a rear-bath model. So my question is whether a 23" would really be materially easier to maneuver around in the city, the Wally-world parking lot, etc. To me, an additional 3 feet in length would make little or no difference, but then again, I haven't driven either a 23" or a 26" GMC, so I am soliciting opinions from the group of resident experts. My selling arguments will also incorporate the fact that a GMC would be lower to the ground and narrower (I think)than a typical Class C, and hence easier for her to drive. Is this a fact, or am I just blowing smoke here?
Finally, I have never actually even been inside a GMC, since most of the rallies and conventions I have read about on this site have been a long, long way from Montreal. Are there any GMC owners out there within a 50 mile radius around Montreal that would be willing to let me visit their coach and take me for a spin around the block?
Much thanks in advance to all for your comments and thoughts.
Gordon Gibson
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada If you decide you want a 23' side bath, I got one for sale. I am working on getting it completely camp ready. If you want one that you can use the minute you purchase it, I got some things I have to finish up. If you don't mind doing some things yourself, the price can be reduced accordingly. When I bought it, the floorplan was a front dinette and permanent rear bed. I began the conversion to front jack-knife sofa and rear dinette/bed. I can easily put a front dinette back in it and leave the rear permanent bed. Currently floor plan is this
The final goal was this
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280503 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 15:20 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Mine is a 26'. I have never driven a 23'. The trade off, is space. a 23 footer would drive nicer, I would guess, and fit more places, but if you plan correctly, a 26 fits about anywhere. I make my wife mad, by driving my GMC around town instead of our normal vehicles. I feel I can take my GMC anywhere i want, except a parking garage. I pick the kids up from daycare, I bring them to ice cream, guitar practice and the park. She thinks it is silly, but It helps me make sure everything is in working order for the longer trips we do as a family.
As for drivability, my wife drives my GMC. Just this last friday, I worked later, so she left with the GMC and the kids, and I met up with them at the campsite after work. I do not think you can compare a GMC to a class C. In the GMC you can see everything, backing up, blind spots, things up, things down. The seating position for driving and just how it drives and handles makes it very simple.
proof: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5Hh4IRec2DA/UgT4w8Htc1I/AAAAAAAAR1U/KlTnhfMgPuE/s1600/jenparkrapids2.jpg
I am biased, but I would buy a few of these:
http://www.bethunesales.com/listings/stelley.html
long before one of these:
http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2016-Winnebago-Travato-114419175
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280508 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 15:40 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Gordon,
I copied and emailed your post to a friend who has had a 23 footer for over thirty years and recently switched to a 26 footer. He would be able to answer most of your questions better than most.
The width of a GMC is 8'. Most of the older class-Cs used to be the same width although I guess most newer ones are 100" to 102" "wide bodies". The Sprinter/ProMaster based class B and B+ coaches are considerably narrower and would seem cramped to me, although that is one of the things that makes them more maneuverable and easier to park. The main advantage to one of those would be the relatively good fuel economy they get compared to the GMC's 8-10 MPG. On the other hand, I believe you would be hard pressed to find one for the $80,000.00 you mentioned, and you could buy a LOT of fuel for the difference in price.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280509 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 15:41 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I've a 23' drives like my wife's Town and Country. The only 26' I've driven was moving here with essentially no brakes, but 25 miles of careful driving didn't find anything in the 26 any different than my 23. Friend sold his Sprinter (work truck) when the third engine went in it - provided free by MB both times. He said the problem was three days to a week of down time. This the inline engine, which I understand gave a lot of trouble, often due to a glitch in the turbine bypass valve which led to serious overboosting and a lunched engine. Supposedly, the current V6 engine isn't prone to this problem. Come to a rally and let your wife drive both lengths of coach and see how she likes it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280511 is a reply to message #280503] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 15:55 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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We were fortunate enough to travel a few days on the Route 66 Rally with some really fine folks last summer. One of the group had a 23' we rode in around Santa Fe and that thing really impressed me. He drove into a Wally World parking lot and slipped it into a parking space between two cars as if it were a SUV. I wouldn't have tried to bring our 26' into that space on a bet. I think my brothers crew cab 4x4 Ford is longer than 23'. The GMC's are considerably wider than a Sprinter Van in their unmolested widths but they tend to be a little claustrophobic in my eyes. Everyone to their own.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280517 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 17:32 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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I've owned and driven three 26 foot GMCs and now my current 23 footer.
As far as I'm concerned, they both drive the same going down the road. I
don't really think you could tell the difference without looking.
The 23 foot GMCs do enjoy a little less overhang aft of the rear wheels.
This may come into play going up a steep driveway or ? They also may fit
into some smaller parking lots/spaces that would be tight in a 26'.
If you're not completely sold on a side bath 23', I would encourage you to
look inside BOTH a rear bath and side bath Birchaven for direct comparison.
In my mind, and others, the rear bath layout seems more open and roomy
inside vs the side bath layout.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gordon
Gibson
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:15 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability"
I have been lurking this site for far too long (more than 2 years). Finally
sold my "stick and staple" 28" Class C ( a 1988 Triple E Empress), which has
served the family well over the last 14 years - lots of great memories. Now
the time has come to buy its replacement....which hopefully will be a GMC.
My wife wants something smaller (an RV that could easily navigate parking
lots, city driving, etc. - we don't want to travel with a Toad), newer and
more reliable. Her preference would be for a minie winny or sprinter-based
RV. I am trying to sell her on the idea that a properly-restored GMC could
be just as reliable as a newish RV, and just as drivable as an $80K
sprinter.
I fear that if my proposal for a replacement is a 26" GMC, she will nix it
because it is only 2 feet shorter than the Class C we just got rid of.
While a 23" might be easier to sell to her, they are few and far between,
particularly since I don't want a rear-bath model. So my question is
whether a 23" would really be materially easier to maneuver around in the
city, the Wally-world parking lot, etc. To me, an additional 3 feet in
length would make little or no difference, but then again, I haven't driven
either a 23" or a 26" GMC, so I am soliciting opinions from the group of
resident experts. My selling arguments will also incorporate the fact that a
GMC would be lower to the ground and narrower (I think)than a typical Class
C, and hence easier for her to drive. Is this a fact, or am I just blowing
smoke here?
Finally, I have never actually even been inside a GMC, since most of the
rallies and conventions I have read about on this site have been a long,
long way from Montreal. Are there any GMC owners out there within a 50 mile
radius around Montreal that would be willing to let me visit their coach and
take me for a spin around the block?
Much thanks in advance to all for your comments and thoughts.
Gordon Gibson
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280520 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 18:44 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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gibsongo wrote on Mon, 22 June 2015 10:15I have been lurking this site for far too long (more than 2 years). Finally sold my "stick and staple" 28" Class C ( a 1988 Triple E Empress), which has served the family well over the last 14 years - lots of great memories. Now the time has come to buy its replacement....which hopefully will be a GMC.
To me, an additional 3 feet in length would make little or no difference, but then again, I haven't driven either a 23" or a 26" GMC, so I am soliciting opinions from the group of resident experts. My selling arguments will also incorporate the fact that a GMC would be lower to the ground and narrower (I think)than a typical Class C, and hence easier for her to drive. Is this a fact, or am I just blowing smoke here?
Gordon Gibson
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
Gordon,
We have had a 23' and a 26'. Did about 25K in the 23' and 50K in the 26'. I think the layout inside is perhaps more important than the length of the coach. Our 23' was a custom interior that was very nice but didn't have a couch. Part of the real estate was taken up by a dry (separate) shower. It had an "almost" queen bed, which was nice. We did get a little tired of sitting at the dinette in the evenings. Our friends have a '26. When they came to visit Ruth and I thought their Eleganza was 12 feet longer, inside. We were leaving for the Santa Rosa GMCMI Convention in '08 and Ruth made us park the coaches side by side, lined up the front bumpers and measured the difference. 3'.
The 23' will fit (almost) in a typical shopping center parking lot. So in that instance it is handier. In the Eleganza I pull through and take two- front to back. Motorhomes are wide so I choose to not park with the pack in a parking lot. Other than that I didn't notice a great deal of difference in the way they drive. The 23' will turn a bit tighter but I don't like tweaking the bogies and scrubbing the tires.
As far as the width, I have never driven other coaches. Ruth says that the moment she gets behind the wheel there is road construction and the K-rails start narrowing the lanes. It makes her nervous but she has never scraped the sides.
For me, driving a GMC is as comfortable as our cars. We drove a Honda Accord for years and now have a Chevy Volt. Our GMC behaves on the road and as comfortable as either car. It rides like velvet. Ours is a '74 so we added an extra AC evaporator up front. That keeps it cool.
As far as storage, we take less all the time. We used to have a pod. We decided to take it off (I don't need to fall off the roof) and decided to each lighten our load inside. The first trip out we had big empty spaces. Only thing I miss about the pod is having to put our lawn chairs under the bed.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280527 is a reply to message #280522] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 19:22 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Hahaha, I figure that's what blinds are for. Besides, I only spend about 35
minutes out of my entire day in there anyway. For the remainder of the day I
for one would like to spend it in a more "roomy" rest of the coach.
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
I have a mental block about having a picture window into my toilet. Never
got my head around how a rear bath is "better".
--
'73 23' Sequoia For Sale
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
Upper Alabama
After all is said and done, a helluva lot more is said than done.
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280531 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 20:15 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gordon,
We bought the 23' in '98 specifically because we wanted to put the minimum
length on the ferry to Alaska. Since we already had a '97 40' pusher at
the time, it seemed like a BIG step down in size. And it was, storage-wise
and convenience wise (she STILL misses the washer and dryer). But, after
living in the 23' for 4 months, we really never used the 40' coach much
again for the additional 7+ years we owned it.
The main reason is probably the GMC community, but the ease of maneuvering
the GMC is also a big factor in our complete conversion from the bigger
coaches we'd always had. As for 23' vs 26', we had a chance to move up
when I bought and refurbished a 26' just to get its drivetrain for the
23'. We didn't "move up", primarily because of the fact that our 23' seems
to have more living area than most 26's -- many first time visitors are
shocked to find how much more spacious our REAR BATH 23' is than their 26'.
Take a look at this album:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/our-x-birchaven/p446.html While no
photos can really convey the feeling of a space, you may get some idea of
how "roomy" a 23' can be. Those photos are 13 years old and there have
been some changes -- the two captain's chairs with the slide-out dining
table between them is gone, in favor of a sofa/twin bed. The
passenger-side sofa across from the kitchen counter no longer makes into a
king size bed, but remains as the second sofa/twin bed. SHE grew tired of
shutting down the kitchen and crawling to the bathroom during the 4 month
trip to Alaska. :-)
As the photos show, there doesn't have to be an open picture window into
the toilet -- the cellular blinds at all of the windows provide complete
privacy, as well as good insulation for heat/cold. Incidentally, one major
contributor to the spacious feeling of our 23' is the fact that I enlarged
the passenger side window when I eliminated the "beverage cabinet" just
inside the entry door which is common in Birchavens. That was a trivially
simple mod since the basic frame was designed for the larger window.
Eliminating the added vertical member added by Coachment and cutting out
the extra sheet metal to reach the existing vertical rib was easy. Since I
was replacing all the windows with those from Motorhome Enhancements
anyway, the added cost was minimal.
Replacing the table-top TV with a flat screen mounted on the wall above
that area also improved the "spaciousness" of the "living room".
Claustrophobia is NOT a problem in our 23' -- in some, it could be, IMHO.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Gordon Gibson
wrote:
> I have been lurking this site for far too long (more than 2 years).
> Finally sold my "stick and staple" 28" Class C ( a 1988 Triple E Empress),
> which
> has served the family well over the last 14 years - lots of great
> memories. Now the time has come to buy its replacement....which hopefully
> will be a
> GMC.
>
> My wife wants something smaller (an RV that could easily navigate parking
> lots, city driving, etc. - we don't want to travel with a Toad), newer and
> more reliable. Her preference would be for a minie winny or sprinter-based
> RV. I am trying to sell her on the idea that a properly-restored GMC could
> be just as reliable as a newish RV, and just as drivable as an $80K
> sprinter.
>
> I fear that if my proposal for a replacement is a 26" GMC, she will nix it
> because it is only 2 feet shorter than the Class C we just got rid of.
> While a 23" might be easier to sell to her, they are few and far between,
> particularly since I don't want a rear-bath model. So my question is
> whether a 23" would really be materially easier to maneuver around in the
> city, the Wally-world parking lot, etc. To me, an additional 3 feet in
> length would make little or no difference, but then again, I haven't
> driven either a 23" or a 26" GMC, so I am soliciting opinions from the
> group of
> resident experts. My selling arguments will also incorporate the fact that
> a GMC would be lower to the ground and narrower (I think)than a typical
> Class C, and hence easier for her to drive. Is this a fact, or am I just
> blowing smoke here?
>
> Finally, I have never actually even been inside a GMC, since most of the
> rallies and conventions I have read about on this site have been a long,
> long
> way from Montreal. Are there any GMC owners out there within a 50 mile
> radius around Montreal that would be willing to let me visit their coach and
> take me for a spin around the block?
> Much thanks in advance to all for your comments and thoughts.
> Gordon Gibson
> Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280534 is a reply to message #280531] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 21:28 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Guy and Ken,
The picture window belongs in the living room or the bedroom or even the dining room. So you can enjoy the view from a recliner during the day, or the bed when you wake up in the morning, or from the table sipping a hot or cold beverage. Putting it in the bathroom and then covering it with blinds does not stop it from being in the wrong place.
From a floorplan perspective, it is an option. Many people can easily overlook the absurdity of the window being in their bathroom. I can't.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 June 2015 21:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280539 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 21:56 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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To me the rear bath creates a vary spacious and open living space. My 78 26 food rear bath twin bunk Royale feels very open. I have removed the top Davo style bunks and that really opens it up, leaving just the two bottom his and her twin beds. You also have great visibility on both sides when driving. Everyone will have a preference but I really like the rear bath twin bed Royal. I think you can set them up real nice for two people, or quickly put the top bunk in for the grandkids. A future project for me is to ditch the dinette for more open adult seating.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
[Updated on: Mon, 22 June 2015 21:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280543 is a reply to message #280488] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 23:09 |
Rick Staples
Messages: 126
Registered: May 2014
Location: Johnstown, Colorado, USA
Karma: -1
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I own a 26', but I was privileged to drive Jim Anstett's beautiful 23 footer once in Durango. It drove like a big Cadillac, though that may be more due to his fastidious maintenance and upgrades. He told me whenever he and his wife have to go more than 50 miles from home, they take the GMC rather than the car.
One factor in the 23 footer's favor: Many National Parks side roads and winding mountain roads hereabouts are sprouting "25 foot length limit" signs (eg: Guanella Pass). Also, many National Forest and Park campsites have an official length limit of 22', which I'd willingly bend for a 23', but can't fake in a 26' Makes me wish for a 23", though I'd miss the kitchen space and dining table.
I also believe a 23 foot would do better in snow and mud, due to having more of its total weight on the drive wheels. Jim used his for ski trips, sometimes camping in ski area parking lots! (Though with good tires, my Eleganza has done Vail Pass in the snow pretty well.)
Just my 2¢, HTH.
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO
"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien
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| Re: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280545 is a reply to message #280531] |
Mon, 22 June 2015 23:20 |
WCB75
Messages: 42
Registered: May 2015
Location: Tampa,Florida
Karma: 0
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Ken
Taking a chance this gets to you...
I saw where you removed your 2 chairs and installed a sofa bed couch with the pop up table... I have just bought a 23' Birchaven with the rear bath and am in the process of replacing the dinette area also... Your couch mount to the first step is exactly what I want to install.. If you have any pictures of that transition I'd really appreciate seeing them..
I also have the lp tank under the rear bench and want to reduce its size and turn it along side the side wall under couch.. I believe you did that also.. Any thoughts on what you ran into I'd appreciate your input..
Thanks
Bill
Bill and Mary Kay Boeyen
76 23' Birchaven 455
Tampa, Florida
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| Re: [GMCnet] 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280554 is a reply to message #280545] |
Tue, 23 June 2015 06:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bill,
I'm sorry, but I don't have any photos specifically of the bed's
structure. However, it's trivially simple: Perhaps a verbal description,
along with some views in this album will help:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-powered-dining-table/p43071-the-is-still-about-a-third-of-the-storage-space-open.html
Before going into that, let me comment on the large LPG tank: I turned
mile parallel to the wall on the driver's side and enclosed it with a new
sheet metal cabinet, covered with carpeted plywood. That's slightly
visible in this earlier album:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/our-x-birchaven/p442.html Look just to
the left of the magazine rack between the captains' chairs. As you can
see, that box was necessarily too high to fit beneath the chairs (just as
in the dinette where the raised floor was necessary). With the captains'
chairs needing recline space behind them, that was a minor problem. When I
installed the sofa/bed, I couldn't tolerate that height, so replaced the
19.3 g. tank with a 6 gallon one I found in Elkhart, IN for $100. It's
still mounted in the same location as the big tank and uses the same access
door. It's quite adequate in capacity for our needs (no furnace nor much
cooking, leaving just the refrigerator to deplete it).
Just beneath the mattress in the later photo, you can see the light tan
3/4" square tube providing the horizontal support for the bed. Its "head"
rests on the top of the step, secured with one screw. Half way to the
"foot" of the bed, there's one vertical leg, with a tab welded to it and
screwed to the floor beneath the bed. At the foot, there's another
vertical leg with securing tag -- it's probably screwed to the adjacent
cabinet too, but I don't remember for sure. Tabs at each side of the two
long openings beneath the bed serve as strikers for the SouthCo latches
which secure the doors.
About 20" from the front of the 30" bed width is another horizontal bar
similar to that at the front. The outer section of that space is covered
with permanently affixed, naugahyde covered, 1/2" plywood. The inner
section is covered with a 22" wide section of similar plywood, mounted with
a piano hinge for ease of under-bed access (very rarely used). One
mistake, realized too late, is that I provided no way to elevate the front
of the sofa when it's converted from a bed. I've corrected that with a
3/4" x 1-1/2" x 72", as yet unpainted, piece of wood which just rests
between the front bar and the plywood top. The presence of the "gas
powered dining table" beneath the sofa, though free-standing, makes it
complicated to devise a more sophisticated elevating mechanism. So I just
sleep on the "sofa".
For the back of the sofas, we have two removable bolsters, custom cut by
the local foam manufacturer, which simply stand up on the engine hatch at
night. They fit snugly beneath the window valences, and lengthwise, so
never move unintentionally. The mattresses came from the same place, but
turned out to be of too-firm foam (SHE insisted, though the owner of the
company warned us), so they're topped, inside the covers, with memory
foam. IIRC, the mattresses are 5" with the memory foam adding another
finished inch or so.
The other sofa/bed "in the kitchen" is similar, but being above the water
tank and wheel well, is too high for sitting comfortably. Its top is
similarly hinged for access to a little storage on top of the water tank,
but the structure is all wood.
I still miss the captains' chairs, but the sofa/bed is comfortable. To
make a "recliner", a couple of the bolsters can be laid on top of each
other for a long "footstool". The TV being hung on the opposite wall
serves well.
Overall, it serves as well as did the home-style recliners in the 40'
pusher we used to spend winters in at MacDill. But we do miss that
walk-around queen bed. :-)
Hope we'll meet you at a Sunshine Statesmen rally soon -- IF we ever get
around to attending another one. Maybe GMCMI in Dothan next Spring?
HTH,
Ken
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Bill wrote:
> Ken
>
> Taking a chance this gets to you...
>
> I saw where you removed your 2 chairs and installed a sofa bed couch with
> the pop up table... I have just bought a 23' Birchaven with the rear bath
> and am in the process of replacing the dinette area also... Your couch
> mount to the first step is exactly what I want to install.. If you have any
> pictures of that transition I'd really appreciate seeing them..
> I also have the lp tank under the rear bench and want to reduce its size
> and turn it along side the side wall under couch.. I believe you did that
> also.. Any thoughts on what you ran into I'd appreciate your input..
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> --
> Bill and Mary Kay Boeyen
> 75 Kingsley 26'
> & 76 23' Birchaven 455
> Tampa, Florida
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: 23" vs 26" - is there a difference in "drivability" [message #280613 is a reply to message #280488] |
Wed, 24 June 2015 09:02 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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So.....this is why I want a GMC for my next motorhome. A couple of simple questions - quickly and exhaustively answered by a group of knowledgeable, passionate people. Thanks to all of you for your input.
23 vs 26 - I guess I am leaning 23. Side vs rear bath? I agree that the photos suggest that the rear bath gives the appearance of being more roomy. The problem is that my circadian rhythm is totally different than that of my spouse. She likes to go to bed early and get up with the birds. I like to stay up late surfing the net, playing guitar, reading etc. and then sleep in. The closed bedroom we had in the old Empress was essential for marital harmony and I am looking to replicate that with the GMC.
Chuck - I will download the e-book and look forward to reading about your 23" customization, although since we do more dry camping than "full service" camping, our approach in some areas will undoubtedly be different.
I checked out the Blacklist, and while there appear to far fewer GMC owners in Quebec than in Ontario, Alberta or BC, there are a couple within striking distance that I may contact.
One further question about the 23 vs the 26: are the holding and fresh water tanks the same capacity?
Once again, thanks to all for generously respondng.
Gordon Gibson
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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