Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Steering Gear Adjustment
| Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279225] |
Sat, 06 June 2015 17:33  |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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I've read Rob Mueller's excellent steering inspection guide to determine how to get rid of some recently acquired steering slop, and I've noticed that I have a lot of movement on the steering box input shaft, but very little relative movement on the pitman arm. I've watched some YouTube videos on adjusting (tightening) Saginaw steering gears, and was wondering if adjusting the screw on the front of the box (held in place by a locknut) is the correct way to tighten this up.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279226 is a reply to message #279225] |
Sat, 06 June 2015 17:43  |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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There is a very specific procedure for doing that adjustment that I believe has been outlined on this forum before. The steering box must be removed from the vehicle to set it properly, and it requires a very sensitive torque wrench on the steering shaft. The box must also be set in the center of its operation, which has also been detailed on here before.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279227 is a reply to message #279226] |
Sat, 06 June 2015 17:48 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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If you try to do it on the vehicle, there is a very good chance that it will get screwed up and have to be removed to get it set right, and maybe even imposing excessive wear on the box within very few miles, thus ruining the steering gear.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279234 is a reply to message #279225] |
Sat, 06 June 2015 20:19 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bryan,
Thanks for the compliment to adjust the steering gear see Maintenance Manual X-7525 / Section 9 - Steering System / Page 9 - 36 /
Pitman Shaft "Over-Center" Sector Adjustment."
Note that you will need a 0 - 60 inch pound beam type torque wrench and a deep well socket (I can't remember the size, sorry) to
turn the steering gear input shaft.
You probably don't have a 0 - 60 inch pound beam type torque wrench so here's where you can get one:
http://www.amazon.com/PERFORMANCE-TORQUE-WRENCH-POUNDS-M195/dp/B00SNICDJC
You are probably going to get responses noting that "I just turned the adjusting set screw in a little and got rid of the slop." You
can do that BUT if you screw it in too much and the steering box is not "Over-Center" you risk cracking the aluminum cover.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Hayes
I've read Rob Mueller's excellent steering inspection guide to determine how to get rid of some recently acquired steering slop, and
I've noticed that I have a lot of movement on the steering box input shaft, but very little relative movement on the pitman arm.
I've watched some YouTube videos on adjusting (tightening) Saginaw steering gears, and was wondering if adjusting the screw on the
front of the box (held in place by a locknut) is the correct way to tighten this up.
--
Bryan
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279237 is a reply to message #279225] |
Sat, 06 June 2015 20:38 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Terry and Rob, thanks for the push in the right direction. I try to subscribe to the "if you're going to do it, do it right the first time" line of thought, so out comes the steering gear...
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279243 is a reply to message #279237] |
Sat, 06 June 2015 21:23 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bryan,
Your line of thought is the RIGHT line of thought as far as I'm concerned.
Having said that there are a lot of short cuts learned from experience that are just fine, I'm sure Terry knows lots of them as he
is a professional!
I'm the way I am because of the way my GERMAN Dad raised me, I did it right or caught hell! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Hayes
Terry and Rob, thanks for the push in the right direction. I try to subscribe to the "if you're going to do it, do it right the
first time" line of
thought, so out comes the steering gear...
--
Bryan
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279305 is a reply to message #279257] |
Sun, 07 June 2015 20:11 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bob,
I'm sorry but I am going to disagree with your blanket statement regarding the "slip joint" below:
"Then check for movement. ANY, and I mean any movement at all what so ever. Replace."
Peter Bailey and I rebuilt both the lower steering columns for his GMC's one has been converted to right hand drive and the second
has not. Both blue slip joints had a small amount of play in them as did the CV joint. We test drove his RHD GMC and it drove just
fine and did not wander.
The slip joint in Double Trouble in the USA has a bit of play and it does not wander either, however, it is running Lenzi upper
control arms and 5° of caster.
What are the alignment numbers for your 78 Royale?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Dunahugh
I spent all kinds of money with Jim K, and Dave L. Checked the steering box. The coach still wandered. The slip joint looked good.
The problem was the slip joint. You need to take the 6 bolts out at the top. And the one at the bottom. DO NOT take the bolt out
that's above the CV joint. DO NOT. BAD IDEA. Take the slip joint apart, and clean it. Put no lube on it. Slide it back together
dry. Then check for movement. ANY, and I mean any movement at all what so ever. Replace. That fixed mine. Drives perfectly now.
Bob Dunahugh78 Royale
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279414 is a reply to message #279225] |
Tue, 09 June 2015 06:12 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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When putting back in I found to tie a rope to it and have it suspended somehow to where you can get it back in position don't try and lift it with one hand and put bolts in, I had to have my faced sewed up 3 time for such things.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279421 is a reply to message #279225] |
Tue, 09 June 2015 08:35 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I used a 2 ton floor jack to put mine back in with no assitant. WARNING. If you ever attempt to adjust the box in coach DO NOT think you can tighten down the allen as if you are adjusting a wheel bearing. This will result in an overtightened condition and most likely ruin the box. Also this is only half the setup procedure. If there is any wobble in the input spline shaft of the box it will not drive well. Glad you are bench testing yours.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279564 is a reply to message #279225] |
Wed, 10 June 2015 21:03 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I just did the over-center adjustment, but I'm getting some odd readings. After adjusting the allen screw, I'm seeing slightly more torque in the counterclockwise direction on the input shaft than in the clockwise direction. I've probably done something wrong, but was wondering if this was normal.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279580 is a reply to message #279564] |
Wed, 10 June 2015 23:57 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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bhayes wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 20:03I just did the over-center adjustment, but I'm getting some odd readings. After adjusting the allen screw, I'm seeing slightly more torque in the counterclockwise direction on the input shaft than in the clockwise direction. I've probably done something wrong, but was wondering if this was normal.
I think I have it now. I backed the adjustment screw out again, rotated the input shaft to center, tested the torque on the input shaft (about 4 inch/lbs both clockwise and counterclockwise a few degrees), and then tightened the adjustment screw down again until I have approximately 14 inch/lbs both right and left of center a few degrees. There still seems to be a small bit of rotation in the input shaft before the pitman arm shaft moves, like there's some small gap between the sector shaft teeth and rack block teeth, but it seems much less than before.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279588 is a reply to message #279580] |
Thu, 11 June 2015 07:53 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bryan,
Having the flat on the input shaft parallel to the mounting surface of the aluminum cap is IMPERATIVE or the box is NOT over center
and the torque one direction will not be the same as the other direction. Ref MM X-7525 Page 9 - 39 Figure 64
Since your gear is used the spec on the torque is 9 - 13 inch pounds Ref MM-X-7525 Page 9 - 40 Step 4.
Figure 66 on the same page shows how to set the torque.
When you put the steering gear back in you need to make sure that the front wheels are pointing straight ahead when the gear is over
center.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Hayes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:58 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment
bhayes wrote on Wed, 10 June 2015 20:03
> I just did the over-center adjustment, but I'm getting some odd readings. After adjusting the allen screw, I'm seeing slightly
more torque in the > counterclockwise direction on the input shaft than in the clockwise direction. I've probably done something
wrong, but was wondering if this was normal.
I think I have it now. I backed the adjustment screw out again, rotated the input shaft to center, tested the torque on the input
shaft (about 4 inch/lbs both clockwise and counterclockwise a few degrees), and then tightened the adjustment screw down again until
I have approximately 14 inch/lbs both right and left of center a few degrees. There still seems to be a small bit of rotation in the
input shaft before the pitman arm shaft moves, like there's some small gap between the sector shaft teeth and rack block teeth, but
it seems much less than before.
--
Bryan
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279921 is a reply to message #279588] |
Sun, 14 June 2015 23:24 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Rob, I saw your reply on the other thread, but since that thread seems to have gotten mixed in with an Onan discussion, I'll respond here.
There doesn't seem to be any significant delay between movement on the input shaft and movement on the pitman arm, but from the steering wheel center to either the right or left a few degrees seems...loose. It's very easy to move the steering wheel either direction a few degrees before I start to feel resistance. I do have a little play in the joint between the pitman arm and drag link, as I didn't tighten the castle nut quite enough before putting the cotter pin though. Not sure if that will help or not, but I'm going to tighten it up to the recommended 100-125 ft/lbs.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Adjustment [message #279923 is a reply to message #279921] |
Mon, 15 June 2015 00:13 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bryan,
You could have play in the:
1) nylon ball joint that allows the steering wheel to tilt
2) the CV joint at the top of the lower steering column
3) the slip joint (blue) in the middle of the lower steering column
4) the U-joint at the bottom of the lower steering column
Here's the procedure to check the steering system end to end:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Hayes
Rob, I saw your reply on the other thread, but since that thread seems to have gotten mixed in with an Onan discussion, I'll respond
here.
There doesn't seem to be any significant delay between movement on the input shaft and movement on the pitman arm, but from the
steering wheel center to either the right or left a few degrees seems...loose. It's very easy to move the steering wheel either
direction a few degrees before I start to feel resistance. I do have a little play in the joint between the pitman arm and drag
link, as I didn't tighten the castle nut quite enough before putting the cotter pin though. Not sure if that will help or not, but
I'm going to tighten it up to the recommended 100-125 ft/lbs.
--
Bryan
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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