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| Power steering pump options [message #278838] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 12:44  |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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I have a rebuilt power steering pump (pretty new with 500 miles on it) that decided to start knocking. (Yikes I thought it was the engine) So it's time to replace it again. (The warranty time has expired) I seem to recall that there was a couple of otions or things to look out for when buying another unit. I've been tying to find that information, but am unable to locate it now that I need it.
The one I have now jerks and has poor assist while the coach is doing slow manouvering indicating to me that I may have had the wrong pump or xxxxx, when I replaced it the last time.
I see that a Cardone 20-140 is specified for a 74 Torodado but that may have been the problem with it in the coach.
Any advice, direction, links, and part numbers will be appreciated. I would like to be armed with numbers when I go to the local parts distributors.
best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278839 is a reply to message #278838] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 13:01  |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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John, just curious--are you using the double pulley on the alternator? I went to the double pulley and had problems with the power steering because of it. I just went back to the original belt configuration and my problems disappeared.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278841 is a reply to message #278838] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 13:11 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Good question. I had considered it but did not for just that reason. There is only about 1/2 of the belt surface transfering power to the pump in that configuration and I was worried that i would have the slipping problem.
I have checked my belt tension and condition. The belt is new and the two belts are tight.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278848 is a reply to message #278841] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 15:51 |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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John,
See the below thread, I think it may help. I just replaced my power steering Pump this past weekend and based on the advice in the below thread I swapped over the original pressure valve and spring. The spring on the replacement pump was about 1/4" shorter then the original. Also the pressure valve did not have a shim/washer under the hex head nut attached to the pressure valve. Not sure if that was necessary but did not want to take a chance. Also the Replacement pump is clocked differently from the original so I had to modify the adjusting bracket by making the adjusting slot longer. By doing that I was able to clock the pump so it is nearly as vertical as the OEM. Also I need to get a longer belt which was okay since mine needed replacement. Oh, and I got my pump at Applied GMC.
Jon
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=241775&rid=1466&srch=power+steering+pump#msg_241775
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278853 is a reply to message #278848] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 17:31 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Jon Payne wrote on Mon, 01 June 2015 14:51John,
See the below thread, I think it may help. I just replaced my power steering Pump this past weekend and based on the advice in the below thread I swapped over the original pressure valve and spring. The spring on the replacement pump was about 1/4" shorter then the original. Also the pressure valve did not have a shim/washer under the hex head nut attached to the pressure valve. Not sure if that was necessary but did not want to take a chance. Also the Replacement pump is clocked differently from the original so I had to modify the adjusting bracket by making the adjusting slot longer. By doing that I was able to clock the pump so it is nearly as vertical as the OEM. Also I need to get a longer belt which was okay since mine needed replacement. Oh, and I got my pump at Applied GMC.
Jon
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=241775&rid=1466&srch=power+steering+pump#msg_241775
Thanks Jon that link helps lot.
i vaguely remembered it but did not take part in it because plenty was being said and I did not feel i could add more. It does however address or indicate some of my problems. And I might now be bringing it all up again. Those of you who are educators will understand this as now having a need to know on my part and time to sit up and pay attention.
Im pretty sure I have a flow problem. (I don't remember keeping the old pressure control valve) the steering gear starts out willing to help but then stops, waiting for more fluid. If I slow down my input the jerking becomesess pronounced. I also seem to have extreme heating of the fuid. So much so that I put in a cooler. Things really do get hot. This indicates to me that there might be some restriction, but the pump does not seem to labor
Unfortunately the link does not seem to have any final conclusion as to what size orifice and shim pack should be used for a good feel. To add to the problem is that the 74 pump is a different part number. (Oh what to do) im looking only for the pump. I will not need the reservoir, so mounting will not be a problem.
Some research I did earlier I found that many off road enthusiasts modify the control valve to some extent with hole size and shim count but warn how not much more pressure breaks the pump physically. Im willing to drill out an orifice if I would know how much would be too much. Very difficult to get new valve. To try again.
I spent some time today talking to some parts counters and see that fo 74 the pump they used for the 74 Toronado and 1 ton was the same number so I think the valve must be the same. It was interesting to note that cardone no longer wanted the core for the rebuilt pump.
The Cardone part number was 20-140
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278863 is a reply to message #278853] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 19:53 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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John--have you removed the in line filter at the windshield wiper motor? If it gets clogged, it can really raise the PS system pressure.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power steering pump options [message #278869 is a reply to message #278863] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 20:20 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Or remove it and clean it with contact cleaner/compressed air and a brass
brush. Mine was coated with what looked to be thousands of small strands of
Teflon tape.
Sully
77 Royale
Seattle
On Monday, June 1, 2015, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> John--have you removed the in line filter at the windshield wiper motor?
> If it gets clogged, it can really raise the PS system pressure.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278874 is a reply to message #278838] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 21:16 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Regarding the wiper filter. When I did the original pump replacement, I also had new hoses made up and tried to clean the filter. I think I did a decent Job, however. In this repair I intend to re-check the lines, the filter and cooler for flow. I've even thought about eliminating the wiper and changing to electric to take one thing out of the system. I have a pressure gauge we used to use for transmission diagnostics but I have to see if any are capable of the 1000+ PSI
But I will need to create some adaptor hoses to place it in the operating system. (More cost at the hose shop) im pretty sure that I should only build minimum pressure when the valves are all open. If I don't lock the wheel to one side or the other the pressure should not get that high and the gauges should work. I'll be doing that in the next few days. Once the pump is out I'll take it apart to examine it.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Power steering pump options [message #278887 is a reply to message #278838] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 22:44 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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More information for the question. I just found an old (1976) Oldsmobile servoce manual and the Power steering pump repair section indicates it should put out about 1350 PSI in fully loaded mode. (Test Valve closed and stopping flow) it should be in the 80 to 125 PSI in Open Flow. If more than 200 expect flow restrictions. The same as the GMC Coach. Therefore I would expect that the similar pump to have similar Control Valves. Flow rates are not indicated in the service manuals.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power steering pump options [message #278934 is a reply to message #278887] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 12:01 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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John,
The PS pump itself fits a number of GM vehicles, but the oil tank are different depending on engine size, style and optional AC. You can purchase the pumps sans tank and change the tank off the old pump or take your in to match what you have on the GMC. These listed below appear to have the correct tank, but you need to check.
The GMCMIPI list the following pumps and you have to be careful as some of the pumps come with metric high press threads and some come with SAE threads.
SAE fitting for direct use, and these can be crossed to others.
Fenco# SP16044
Napa NSP 817427F
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMHI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Jun 1, 2015, at 11:44 PM, John Heslinga wrote:
>
> More information for the question. I just found an old (1976) Oldsmobile servoce manual and the Power steering pump repair section indicates it
> should put out about 1350 PSI in fully loaded mode. (Test Valve closed and stopping flow) it should be in the 80 to 125 PSI in Open Flow. If more than
> 200 expect flow restrictions. The same as the GMC Coach. Therefore I would expect that the similar pump to have similar Control Valves. Flow rates
> are not indicated in the service manuals.
> --
> John and Cathie Heslinga
> 1974 Canyonlands 260
> 455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
> Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
> Edmonton, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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