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| [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278154] |
Thu, 21 May 2015 12:06  |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Hello all,
I need to put some new shoes on my old girl. I've seen several discussions
(about every three months or so?) about recommended tires.
My question is, does anyone use BFG Commercial TA All Season II tires? These
are load range E. If so how is the ride? Any problems or issues? Would you
buy them again?
I have a quote from my local tire shop for $1,408 for seven (7) tires
mounted, balanced and including tax.
Thanks in advance,
Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278158 is a reply to message #278154] |
Thu, 21 May 2015 15:04  |
Botts Chuck
Messages: 43
Registered: May 2015
Karma: -9
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Before you go to load range E, weigh the load on each tire to determine if you can get by with load range D tires, Very few coach weigh more than the Load Range D can handle (2,335 pounds/tire or ~14,000 lbs coach) If you have a very large difference between the front tires, you may also need an alignment, particularly front torsion bar adjustments.
I replaced my all steel load range E with BFG LT225/75 R16 LRD for a softer and smoother ride with a shorter stopping distance (larger tire patch) when I matched tire pressure to tire load. I went from 80 psi that was recommend by Cinnabar to BFG tires, who is owned by Michelin. Costco can get a set for you as they do not stock them. I now have 55 psi in my front tires and 45 psi in my rear tires. They have a 60,000 mile tire ware, My front ones wear out first so every 20,000 miles I put the front on the rear and move a one of the rears to the front.
The complete story on tires, and their pressures verses tire load that fit the GMC are on page 24 of my book "240,000 miles in small RVs.” The tires, tire loads and weighing GMC RVs was done at a GMCWS meeting and recorded on GMWS web site under old technical articles, I think is was 2006. The Tech articles can be download for free, no membership required. I had a Michelin truck tire engineer running the weigh in with their calibrated scales. GMCWS also has weigh in scales, but the next rally is in Sept.
Flying J will weigh your coach on each set of tires, one on the front and two on the rear. Their only problem is that some weighing stations won’t or can’t weigh just one side. The one near here charged $10 to weigh my coach. If they can do both sides individually it will cost your $20. The E load rated tires also are heavier, made for some off road use and square curbs, and cost more with their heavier side walls.
> On May 21, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Guy Lopes wrot
> Hello all,
>
> I need to put some new shoes on my old girl. I've seen several discussions
> (about every three months or so?) about recommended tires.
>
> My question is, does anyone use BFG Commercial TA All Season II tires? These
> are load range E. If so how is the ride? Any problems or issues? Would you
> buy them again?
>
> I have a quote from my local tire shop for $1,408 for seven (7) tires
> mounted, balanced and including tax.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Guy Lopes
> 76 Birchaven "Orion"
> Sacramento, CA
> W6TOL
>
> www.GMC-Guy.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278161 is a reply to message #278154] |
Thu, 21 May 2015 18:03 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I don't think you could tell the difference between a LRD and LRE ragwall inflated the same. You came from all steel running 80PSI. HUGE difference.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278163 is a reply to message #278161] |
Thu, 21 May 2015 18:40 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 21 May 2015 17:03I don't think you could tell the difference between a LRD and LRE ragwall inflated the same. You came from all steel running 80PSI. HUGE difference.
Correct. The post mixes several issues into one reply. Load range E can also run at the same lower pressures that the D can for the same weights. Any reference to Cinnabar usually insinuates Michelin all steels running at 80 psi--A Wes hallmark that has punished many GMC folks before they knew better. Apples to Apples, the BFG E will be an excellent choice.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278187 is a reply to message #278154] |
Fri, 22 May 2015 07:34 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Yes and Commercial TA is a family of tires. Of those, the All Season 2 would be my choice. Looks like they borrowed the LTX M/S type design from parent co Michelin, a good choice. This will help in muddy camp grounds and a bit on wet grass. The original Commercial TA highway looked good for just that, highway, and the traction version too aggressive for daily highway. Like saying you use Mobil 1, where that is family of at lease 12 specific different oils, I think his question was about the All Season 2 specificly. So I have not driven them but I would try them at about 62-65 lbs depending on coach weights
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278200 is a reply to message #278191] |
Fri, 22 May 2015 12:54 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Over the years, 1998 till NOW! I have run 7 different combination of tires which included several brands, 2 different sizes of rims and several sizes of tires. Some of the combinations were run for a short time ( 1 Trip ) and some for a little longer that 8 years. Now some will say 8 years is a long time, but I did monitor the time regularly and even today they show no deterioration, but their road days are done on any coach and I will sell them to the farmer down the road to use on his hay and corn trailers.
First set of tires that came on the 1977 Eleganza II coach that we bought in summer of 1998 came with the 16.5 steel radial wheels with Goodyear G159 225 75 R16 LRE all steel radial tires in all locations and although the tire pressure was at 65 PSIG at all locations, it drove terribly and rut ran badly! I did raise the tire pressure for a test on a short trip up to 80 PSIG and the ride was even worse. (The 80 PSIG in an all steel radial tire has been Wes gospil since the late 1990’s and I thought that we had put that to rest a decade ago with the number of post that have been here over the years.) That lasted 2 months until I decided to upgrade to 16” Alcoa Wheels and new tires. When we were looking at coaches to purchase I test drove one with BaisPly type mounted tires and it was an experience as the tires needed to get several miles of road travel before all the flat spot went away.
Set number 2 (fall 1998) mounted on 16” Alcoa rims were Firestone 225 75 R16 LRE Steel tread, Poly sidewalls as a recommendation from Buskirk’s. That combination turned the coach from an evil *itch to a 2 finger on the steering wheel going down the road coach and I used those tires till 2007 and I still have them mounted on another set of Alcoa rims that will be used with a new set of tires when the Avion is finished.
Set number 3 was the set of tires and rims that I got on the 1975 Avion that we purchased in July of 2007. I needed to change out the tires that were on the 77 ELII so on they went. The fronts were Michelins LTX MS LT225 75 R16 LRE with Steel tread with Poly sidewalls. The rears were Goodyear G159 225 75 R16 LRE All Steel tire. I drove that set until spring of 2011 when the coach was sold and we purchased the Buskirk Stretch.
Set number 4 that came on the Stretch and were Michelin 245 75 R16 LRE poly sidewall tires. They were in bad shape and had aged out being 15 years old and were original tires on the coach when built in 1997. They got we home over 250 miles, but if I had looked closer I would have put new tires on before heading home. Some people do run the 245 tire with success, but you have to be careful with air bag clearance, both with the single factory bag and with the 4 bag systems that are available and I know that at least on air bag had been replaced on the stretch. The stretches rear suspension is a Buskirk clone of the Harrison 4 bag system, but constructed out of much heavier plate material and does not have the issues that the Harrison rear suspension has displayed in the past.
Set number 5 is the set of tires that was mounted 2 days after we got the stretch home. I decided to try the Michelin LTX MS LT245 75 R16 LRE tire on the rear and a Michelin LTX MS LT225 75 R16 LRE on the front. Your front tire size affects the final drive ratio and with the original setup on the front of a 245 time it had knocked down my ratio from a 3.67 ( 3.21 final and a 3.50 chain drive) to around a 3.51 final ratio. Went with a Michelin LTX MS LT225 75 R16 LRE and the final drive ratio was back to 3.67 which for a stretch and weight helps.
Set number 6 was a change of the rear tire size from a 245 tire to a 225 tire. The rears were changed to the Goodyear G149 RSA LT 225 75 R16 LRE tire that is an all steel tire. Dave Lenzi had run this tire and liked them and I had already bought the tires for another coach that is still not finished yet.
Set number 7 was the Michelin recall and I had the 2 fronts replaced like for like, with no other changes.
As you can read I have run pretty much all the combination of tires in the position on the coach. The all steel tires in all positions was the worst driving experience that I had. When I went to the poly sidewall in all position I experienced the best over all ride and that was 1998 thru 2007. As for putting all steel on the back and poly sidewalls on the front the driving experience was very similar to the all poly sidewall setup. We have had a number of these tire discussions over the years and I believe that the general consensus is that at the very least you should run at a minimum a poly sidewall tire on the front and your choice on the back. Now as for pressures, my personal experience on my coaches I have found that I like to run 65 PSIG all around in the stretch. In the 77 EL II I ran 55 in the back and 60 in the front. I did try a test on the 77 at a 80 PSIG all around and it rattled our teeth and beat the coach going down the road. Now as for pressures what should you run? I don’t know as it is a personal choice and I can only give you my experience over the last 15+ years that I have used.
Three other things to discuss:
First would be side wall deflection. There are a lot of variables here, coach weight at tire location, tire construction, air pressure used. I check mine this morning and I am running set 7 all at 65 PSIG and I cannot see any visible difference. That said also I have had the coach weighed at the Dothan Al GMCMI rally on Alex Sirum scale set up which weights each wheel separately and the coach is pretty much balanced with all wheels carrying the same load. I have also weighed the coach at home and it shows the same balance. Would you see a difference between different pressures and tire sizes, possibly, but no 2 coaches will be the same as conditions will vary as past weigh in have shown.
Second would be tire weights and yes they do vary but not as much as you would think among like tires and by that I mean all poly vs all steel or a combo of the two. I went out and looked as several brands and their weights and the poly side wall tires are the lighter of the combos and a 225 LRD and 225 LRE have about a 2 pound difference in weight LRD = 38# VS LRE = 40#. Now if you're mixing and matching the weights will vary between the sizes 225 vs 235 vs 245 and wether the tire is all steel or a poly side wall. A 245 tire will weigh in 48# range where as the 235 tire is in between
Third and last is what kind and brand of tire should you buy! I don’t know either! My personal choice is the Michelin LTX for new purchases for me. I have the Goodyears on the back because I had them in the shop. I think that it really depends on how many miles that you travel each year in your coach and a 7 year limit in tire life no matter how many miles that you drive. Lot of good tires out there and I am going to list some brands here that some members have run. BF Goodrich, Goodyear Wrangler, Kumho ( good tire for low yearly mileage users), Yokohama, Bridgestone, Continental, Dunlop, Firestone Transforce HT, General and maybe other that I have missed.
One addition is the problems caused by the difference between the front and rear track widths. Because of the difference, the front being narrower than the rear our coach have a tendency to “RUT RUN” on badly rutted roads and interstates. The poly sidewall tire is still affected somewhat but not nearly as bad as an all steel tire. Now some have added spacers to align the track width with success and the new one ton also changes the track width to greatly reduce the problem. If you're running the factory front end then the poly sidewall tire is your best bet for ride as past comments of poster here. No having spacers or the new one ton I can make no comments tire recommendation.
The choice of tire has to be yours and you have to live with it!
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
> On May 22, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Botts Chuck wrote:
>
> Measure the wall thickness where the tire bends. There is difference. Talk to the distributor or sales people and find out the true difference.
>> On May 21, 2015, at 4:03 PM, John R. Lebetski wrote:
>>
>> I don't think you could tell the difference between a LRD and LRE ragwall inflated the same. You came from all steel running 80PSI. HUGE difference.
>> --
>> John Lebetski
>> Woodstock, IL
>> 77 Eleganza II
>> Source America First
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278213 is a reply to message #278200] |
Fri, 22 May 2015 19:13 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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powerjon wrote on Fri, 22 May 2015 12:54
The choice of tire has to be yours and you have to live with it!
JR Wright
With that in mind, IMO, choose a tire that can be adjusted anywhere in the USA. I bought a set of (6) off brand tires that were a match to the Michelin LTX-MS. Same tread and a lot cheaper. I had issues with 5 of the 6 tires. Once in Florida, I had a tire tread separation. If I wanted to have it adjusted, I would have had to drive 250 miles out of my way to a dealer that handled that brand. I've run Michelins ever since. While I have never had a problem with these, in the event I need an adjustment, any Walmart in the country can do it. Just say'n...pick a dealer and tire that can be serviced anywhere you are. JMHO
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires (again) [message #278214 is a reply to message #278213] |
Fri, 22 May 2015 19:30 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
It is a very good point, thanks for bringing it up. Also goes for other things that you may need such as batteries. I buy at Walmart as I can get a warrantee replacement anywhere. All the big box autoparts places too!
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
> On May 22, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Larry wrote:
>
> powerjon wrote on Fri, 22 May 2015 12:54
>> The choice of tire has to be yours and you have to live with it!
>>
>> JR Wright
>
> With that in mind, IMO, choose a tire that can be adjusted anywhere in the USA. I bought a set of (6) off brand tires that were a match to the
> Michelin LTX-MS. Same tread and a lot cheaper. I had issues with 5 of the 6 tires. Once in Florida, I had a tire tread separation. If I wanted to
> have it adjusted, I would have had to drive 250 miles out of my way to a dealer that handled that brand. I've run Michelins ever since. While I have
> never had a problem with these, in the event I need an adjustment, any Walmart in the country can do it. Just say'n...pick a dealer and tire that can
> be serviced anywhere you are. JMHO
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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