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[GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278035] Tue, 19 May 2015 10:21 Go to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
A friend bought a 73 GMC 2 years ago. He and his wife just love it. He call me last Spring to tell me that it wouldn't start. I went over to find the problem. The distributor points needed to be replaced. Put new points in. And they were back on the road. I told him that it might be a good idea to call Dick Paterson for one of his HEI distributor. ( The GM HEI distributor is an outstanding unit. ) About 2 weeks ago he calls to tell me that he took my advice and went to a salvage yard to get a HEI distributor out of some Olds engine last Aug. He said that the HEI distributor was great. But there seemed to be some other problem. As the 455 just didn't seem to climb hills like it use too. (This info is more for the newer guys on this site. As it's been discussed before. ) Our CMC engines are different then the car engine. The differences are small. But make a real difference in performance, and operation. The GMC engine operates in a lower RPM range then the car du
e to the larger size of the tires. Thus less revs per mile. The GMC has alot more mass to deal with. The GMC engine differences are the distributor, carb, and cam on the performance side. And the water pump, and intake manifold. But that's another topic. ( the trans is stronger then the car trans. But that too is another topic. ) For the motor home engine to perform well under these operating conditions. The distributor advance curve needed to be altered to conform to the altered camshaft. And the carb had changes to perform correctly with the distributor, and camshaft. That's the short version of the story. So if you want to put a car engine in your GMC. These changes need to be made. So never trash these important components. Dick Paterson has these items. And is vary knowledgeable in this area.
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278042 is a reply to message #278035] Tue, 19 May 2015 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Bob,

Here's a link to a photo of the advance curve for the Patterson distributor in Double Trouble.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p32021-dick-paterson-27s-distributor-curve.html

Regards,
Rob M.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Dunahugh

A friend bought a 73 GMC 2 years ago. He and his wife just love it. He call me last Spring to tell me that it wouldn't start. I
went over to find the problem. The distributor points needed to be replaced. Put new points in. And they were back on the road. I
told him that it might be a good idea to call Dick Paterson for one of his HEI distributor. ( The GM HEI distributor is an
outstanding unit. ) About 2 weeks ago he calls to tell me that he took my advice and went to a salvage yard to get a HEI
distributor out of some Olds engine last Aug. He said that the HEI distributor was great. But there seemed to be some other
problem. As the 455 just didn't seem to climb hills like it use too. (This info is more for the newer guys on this site. As it's
been discussed before. ) Our CMC engines are different then the car engine. The differences are small. But make a real
difference in performance, and operation. The GMC engine operates in a lower RPM range then the car du
e to the larger size of the tires. Thus less revs per mile. The GMC has alot more mass to deal with. The GMC engine differences
are the distributor, carb, and cam on the performance side. And the water pump, and intake manifold. But that's another topic. ( the
trans is stronger then the car trans. But that too is another topic. ) For the motor home engine to perform well under these
operating conditions. The distributor advance curve needed to be altered to conform to the altered camshaft. And the carb had
changes to perform correctly with the distributor, and camshaft. That's the short version of the story. So if you want to put a car
engine in your GMC. These changes need to be made. So never trash these important components. Dick Paterson has these items. And is
vary knowledgeable in this area.

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278048 is a reply to message #278035] Tue, 19 May 2015 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Bob,

While I will not argue the trimming that Dick Paterson does is good, I would not change a '73 or 4 out to HEI.
The units are just too unreliable and difficult to service for me.

In the earlier coaches, it is my carefully considered opinion that, going to a Pertronix for points (either 1181 or 1181LS either is good) is a better choice. It means you don't have to hammer the air filter housing to fit it. And if you want better than that then add an external CDI box. Want more, open the plugs to 0.045~0.060 will get you about 0.25MPG. (Less misfiring events.) MSD is only one of the manufacturers still in the CDI business, and I have buried two of them. They work, but there are others. Right now, I am running a Delta Mk10b (c. 1976) and NGK XR451X set at 0.050 because the cap needs to be replaced. I'll be able to tell in the fall if the extra 2+$/per plug was worth it.

Matt
BobDunahugh wrote on Tue, 19 May 2015 11:21
A friend bought a 73 GMC 2 years ago. He and his wife just love it. He call me last Spring to tell me that it wouldn't start. I went over to find the problem. The distributor points needed to be replaced. Put new points in. And they were back on the road. I told him that it might be a good idea to call Dick Paterson for one of his HEI distributor. ( The GM HEI distributor is an outstanding unit. ) About 2 weeks ago he calls to tell me that he took my advice and went to a salvage yard to get a HEI distributor out of some Olds engine last Aug. He said that the HEI distributor was great. But there seemed to be some other problem. As the 455 just didn't seem to climb hills like it use too. (This info is more for the newer guys on this site. As it's been discussed before. ) Our CMC engines are different then the car engine. The differences are small. But make a real difference in performance, and operation. The GMC engine operates in a lower RPM range then the car due to the larger size of the tires. Thus less revs per mile. The GMC has alot more mass to deal with. The GMC engine differences are the distributor, carb, and cam on the performance side. And the water pump, and intake manifold. But that's another topic. ( the trans is stronger then the car trans. But that too is another topic. ) For the motor home engine to perform well under these operating conditions. The distributor advance curve needed to be altered to conform to the altered camshaft. And the carb had changes to perform correctly with the distributor, and camshaft. That's the short version of the story. So if you want to put a car engine in your GMC. These changes need to be made. So never trash these important components. Dick Paterson has these items. And is vary knowledgeable in this area.


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278051 is a reply to message #278048] Tue, 19 May 2015 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Dick Paterson offers the Pertronix upgrade as an option vs the HEI for
early coaches. There's one on my rack right now, including a "Springfield
Ignition" coil.

Ken H.


On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Matt Colie wrote:

> Bob,
>
> While I will not argue the trimming that Dick Paterson does is good, I
> would not change a '73 or 4 out to HEI.
> The units are just too unreliable and difficult to service for me.
>
> In the earlier coaches, it is my carefully considered opinion that, going
> to a Pertronix for points (either 1181 or 1181LS either is good) is a better
> choice. It means you don't have to hammer the air filter housing to fit
> it.

​...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278064 is a reply to message #278035] Tue, 19 May 2015 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member


The GM distributor that was used from 1957 through 1974 Is the finest unit that had points that was ever built by any manufacture. It was just great to be able to fine tune the dwell angle externally. The collector cars that I have with that distributor. I have converted them to electronic trigger's. As points seem to corrode quicker due to the lack of frequent use. The GM HEI has been a vary dependable unit. As long as you keep the Chinese parts out. Bob Dunahugh Memmber GMCMI. Source American
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Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278065 is a reply to message #278035] Tue, 19 May 2015 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Tyler is currently offline  Chris Tyler   United States
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
Senior Member
I second Matt's endorsement of the pentronix. Never had one fail

I like the MSD boxes. They work with points too,and will make the points last much longer.

The module is the weak link for HEIs, and the replacements are crap for the most part.

If you run an MSD,you can bypass the module utilizing the pickup only.You can leave it in place in case you need a backup if the MSD should fail

Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was told they were the same elsewhere.

Regarding the ignition curve: Not taking anything form the patterson unit.I have one.However its not rocket science.Slightly higher initial and a fairly quick curve all in early; its basic hot rodder stuff to do.The vac advance is on the low side but understandable with a heavy vehicle. If someone wants to play with an adjustable cannister or better,a variable retard unit,and better yet a knock sensor,it may be possible to run more and pick up a bit of milage


76 Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278066 is a reply to message #278035] Tue, 19 May 2015 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Tyler is currently offline  Chris Tyler   United States
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
Senior Member
I second Matt's endorsement of the pentronix. Never had one fail

I like the MSD boxes. They work with points too,and will make the points last much longer.

The module is the weak link for HEIs, and the replacements are crap for the most part.

If you run an MSD,you can bypass the module utilizing the pickup only.You can leave it in place in case you need a backup if the MSD should fail

Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was told they were the same elsewhere.

Regarding the ignition curve: Not taking anything form the patterson unit.I have one.However its not rocket science.Slightly higher initial and a fairly quick curve all in early; its basic hot rodder stuff to do.The vac advance is on the low side but understandable with a heavy vehicle. If someone wants to play with an adjustable cannister or better,a variable retard unit,and better yet a knock sensor,it may be possible to run more and pick up a bit of milage


76 Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278067 is a reply to message #278066] Tue, 19 May 2015 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
""Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was told they were the same elsewhere."'

This has been mentioned many times and I don't think there is any proof that the GMC had a specific cam.


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Re: [GMCnet] The GMC Distributor, Cam, and Carb are a team. Info for NEW owners. [message #278072 is a reply to message #278067] Wed, 20 May 2015 04:39 Go to previous message
Bruce Hart is currently offline  Bruce Hart   United States
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
Senior Member
Bob D.
Does your friend have the right coil pack? The wrong coil pack could effect
a polarity issue. That would be felt more at low rpms.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/HEI-Ignitions-A-primer-/10000000002053885/g.html

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:

> ""Curious what the cam specs are as opposed to the same year Toronado.Was
> told they were the same elsewhere."'
>
> This has been mentioned many times and I don't think there is any proof
> that the GMC had a specific cam.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart 1976 Palm Beach 1977 28' Kingsley La Grange, Wyoming
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