Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper
| Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274918] |
Fri, 03 April 2015 16:14  |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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I installed the 6-wheel disc brake system two years ago and as many of you know, the mechanical emergency brake is now useless.
I was wondering if anyone had installed a combination brake caliper that incorporated a mechanical emergency brake linkage as well. If so, are there any recommendations? Caveats? I'd really like the piece of mind that comes with a mechanical brake.
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274921 is a reply to message #274918] |
Fri, 03 April 2015 16:46  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Are you talking EMERGENCY brake or parking brake? Two different critters. There are a couple solutions to the parking brake situation with disks but to my knowledge, there isn't a good emergency brake solution. As far as that goes, I'm not too sure how the original drums worked as an ebrake. Most new cars no longer use the term and refer to them as parking brakes.
What kind of disk setup did you install? I have Manny Brakes and can make the parking calipers work a little but normally use my KISS emergency parking brake until I can chock a wheel if I have to stop on a hill.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274922 is a reply to message #274918] |
Fri, 03 April 2015 16:42 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I quit calling the manually applied parking brake as equipped on the stock
GMC an EMERGENCY BRAKE about 10 years ago. It did not function as such when
it left the factory. As far as a temporary parking brake, when all
components are new and move freely, it just barely will suffice. When
things are worn and rusty, like most GMC's that I see every day, it ain't
worth a tinkers dam. When you remove it from two of the rear wheels, it is
worse than that. What does work? You ask. A tijuana parking brake, wheel
chocks, or some such device. Line locks, that hold residual pressure in the
hydraulic system will work, but I cannot install them for customers. They
are not a separate braking system, manually applied, that is isolated from
the hydraulic brakes. Chuck Algur invented a mechanical system that went
between the two rear bogies using friction material that wedged between the
tires that absolutely prevented them from rolling. But, he never perfected
the design or produced anything but prototypes. It utilized a linear
activator with right and left hand threads that pulled/pushed the friction
blocks together using a 12 volt electric motor. Quick, quiet. Someone might
refine his design and produce it. Not me. I can't get caught up with the
work I have now. If there is an effective parking brake for the 6 wheel
discuss system, I have not seen it. Wish there were. I would be installing
them for customers.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Apr 3, 2015 2:15 PM, "Robert Peesel" wrote:
> I installed the 6-wheel disc brake system two years ago and as many of you
> know, the mechanical emergency brake is now useless.
>
> I was wondering if anyone had installed a combination brake caliper that
> incorporated a mechanical emergency brake linkage as well. If so, are there
> any recommendations? Caveats? I'd really like the piece of mind that
> comes with a mechanical brake.
>
>
> --
> Robert Peesel
>
> 1976 Royale 26'
>
> Side Dry Bath
>
> Sterling, Va
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274924 is a reply to message #274918] |
Fri, 03 April 2015 16:53 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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I use something like this for both parking and “emergency”, and it works just great.
http://idh.jebolist.com/AT05-08-0022/003.jpg
You can see the catch for parking.
If I’m not driving for the day, I just leave it off, and use chocks.
Dolph
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
1-Ton, Sullybilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"
> On Apr 3, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Robert Peesel wrote:
>
> I installed the 6-wheel disc brake system two years ago and as many of you know, the mechanical emergency brake is now useless.
>
> I was wondering if anyone had installed a combination brake caliper that incorporated a mechanical emergency brake linkage as well. If so, are there
> any recommendations? Caveats? I'd really like the piece of mind that comes with a mechanical brake.
>
>
> --
> Robert Peesel
>
> 1976 Royale 26'
>
> Side Dry Bath
>
> Sterling, Va
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274995 is a reply to message #274922] |
Sat, 04 April 2015 15:24 |
Thomas Pryor
Messages: 143
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 1
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You may also want to check out the DISC/DISC/DRUM version that is offered
on Jim K's site.
Here is the Link http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1510
SOME HISTORY AND INSIGHT IS IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR DECISION:
1. The front single caliper on all our coaches uses a GMIII 70 mm piston
and generates 9043* inch lbs of stop torque.
2. A single GMIII caliper upgraded to 80 mm piston generates 10,968* inch
lbs of stop torque.
3. A single small 60mm piston GM METRIC caliper (but not the smallest)
generates 6566* inch lbs of torque. Used on small mini-Vans of the 80's &
90's.
4. The STOCK GMC rear drum brake generates 6947* inch lbs of stop torque
and doubled as the DOT approved mechanical parking brake.
SOOOOOO.................
A. A STANDARD STOCK COACH .....(disc/drum/drum)(with or without Reaction
arm)..... has 36040* inch lbs of stop torque available at all wheels WITH
Dot Approved mechanical DRUM parking brakes. A enhanced coach with Larger
Fr and Rr wheel cylinders can reach 49684*. IF THEY ARE MAINTAINED THEY
WORK. IF NOT, THEY DON'T
B. A COACH RETROFITTED WITH THE MANNY SYSTEM REACTION ARM (GM III frt 80mm
Calipers, intermediate GM 60mm metric calipers and rear GM 60mm
metric calipers) provides 45970* INCH LBS OF STOP TORQUE with a
REPORTEDLY INEFFECTIVE PARK BRAKE.
C. A COACH RETROFITTED WITH A CHUCK AULGER STYLE REACTION ARM SYSTEM (GMIII
calipers on ALL WHEELS, but NO PARK BRAKE) has 55424* inch lbs of stop
torque at all wheels. This calculation applies to any all wheel GMIII
caliper fitted coach with or without Reaction arms.
D. A COACH FITTED WITH A KELSEY HAYES STYLE SYSTEM, ( GMIII style calipers
throughout with rear ball lock style parking brake) has 55424* INCH LBS OF
STOP TORQUE WITH AN EFFECTIVE PARK BRAKE ON THE REAR WHEEL.
E. THE REACTION ARM DISC/DISC/DRUM VERSION OFFERED ON JIM K'S SITE ABOVE
(GMIII calipers frt and intermediate / brake drum on the rear) has 52574*
INCH LBS OF STOP TORQUE AND UTILIZES THE REAR DRUM AS THE PARKING BRAKE.
This version copies the "drum in hat" concept of todays pass car and
truck parking brake strategies. Drums are effective parking brakes and COST
EFFECTIVE on large vehicles.
*Please note: all calculations were scrubbed by folks at Willwood Brake
Engineering for disc type Brakes and Conner Crowley at Consolidatred Metco
inc., manufacturers of DRUM brakes for the transportation industry.
THESE CALCULATIONS ARE INDEPENDENT OF REACTION ARM ENHANCEMENTS AND
HYDRAULIC BOOSTER ALTERNATIVES THAT HAVE PROVEN TO BE MOST EFFECTIVE AND
DESIRABLE.
If you need me, I'll call you!
--
Regards,
Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186
Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274997 is a reply to message #274995] |
Sat, 04 April 2015 15:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Tom, what about the 1 ton conversion with the 11" rotors?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or.
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Apr 4, 2015 1:24 PM, "Thomas Pryor" wrote:
> You may also want to check out the DISC/DISC/DRUM version that is offered
> on Jim K's site.
>
> Here is the Link http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1510
>
> SOME HISTORY AND INSIGHT IS IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR DECISION:
>
> 1. The front single caliper on all our coaches uses a GMIII 70 mm piston
> and generates 9043* inch lbs of stop torque.
>
> 2. A single GMIII caliper upgraded to 80 mm piston generates 10,968* inch
> lbs of stop torque.
>
> 3. A single small 60mm piston GM METRIC caliper (but not the smallest)
> generates 6566* inch lbs of torque. Used on small mini-Vans of the 80's &
> 90's.
>
> 4. The STOCK GMC rear drum brake generates 6947* inch lbs of stop torque
> and doubled as the DOT approved mechanical parking brake.
>
> SOOOOOO.................
>
> A. A STANDARD STOCK COACH .....(disc/drum/drum)(with or without Reaction
> arm)..... has 36040* inch lbs of stop torque available at all wheels WITH
> Dot Approved mechanical DRUM parking brakes. A enhanced coach with Larger
> Fr and Rr wheel cylinders can reach 49684*. IF THEY ARE MAINTAINED THEY
> WORK. IF NOT, THEY DON'T
>
> B. A COACH RETROFITTED WITH THE MANNY SYSTEM REACTION ARM (GM III frt 80mm
> Calipers, intermediate GM 60mm metric calipers and rear GM 60mm
> metric calipers) provides 45970* INCH LBS OF STOP TORQUE with a
> REPORTEDLY INEFFECTIVE PARK BRAKE.
>
> C. A COACH RETROFITTED WITH A CHUCK AULGER STYLE REACTION ARM SYSTEM
> (GMIII
> calipers on ALL WHEELS, but NO PARK BRAKE) has 55424* inch lbs of stop
> torque at all wheels. This calculation applies to any all wheel GMIII
> caliper fitted coach with or without Reaction arms.
>
> D. A COACH FITTED WITH A KELSEY HAYES STYLE SYSTEM, ( GMIII style calipers
> throughout with rear ball lock style parking brake) has 55424* INCH LBS OF
> STOP TORQUE WITH AN EFFECTIVE PARK BRAKE ON THE REAR WHEEL.
>
>
> E. THE REACTION ARM DISC/DISC/DRUM VERSION OFFERED ON JIM K'S SITE ABOVE
> (GMIII calipers frt and intermediate / brake drum on the rear) has 52574*
> INCH LBS OF STOP TORQUE AND UTILIZES THE REAR DRUM AS THE PARKING BRAKE.
> This version copies the "drum in hat" concept of todays pass car and
> truck parking brake strategies. Drums are effective parking brakes and COST
> EFFECTIVE on large vehicles.
>
> *Please note: all calculations were scrubbed by folks at Willwood Brake
> Engineering for disc type Brakes and Conner Crowley at Consolidatred Metco
> inc., manufacturers of DRUM brakes for the transportation industry.
>
> THESE CALCULATIONS ARE INDEPENDENT OF REACTION ARM ENHANCEMENTS AND
> HYDRAULIC BOOSTER ALTERNATIVES THAT HAVE PROVEN TO BE MOST EFFECTIVE AND
> DESIRABLE.
>
> If you need me, I'll call you!
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pryor
> 4188 Limerick Dr
> Lake Wales, Fl 33859
> Cell 248 470 9186
>
> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> important than that.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #274999 is a reply to message #274995] |
Sat, 04 April 2015 15:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
Nice work.
Sure would be nice to see a spreadsheet of your calculations. We could
then easily try other variations, such as 80mm at front & middle with KH at
the rear -- giving, by my quick & dirty figuring, 57004 in-lb with an
effective independent parking brake. Whether that would be a well balanced
system is, of course, open to question.
We could also then tell whether you're using the nominal 60mm, 70mm, & 80mm
bores or the actuals.
Ken H.
On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Thomas Pryor wrote:
> You may also want to check out the DISC/DISC/DRUM version that is offered
> on Jim K's site.
>
> Here is the Link http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1510
>
> SOME HISTORY AND INSIGHT IS IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR DECISION:
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #275003 is a reply to message #274918] |
Sat, 04 April 2015 16:17 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Tom, I have no argument that the stock drums are a much more effective parking brake than anything other than Alberts KH system. That said, your figures don't jive with the one's Albert presented at the Chippewa Falls rally even after using the .083333333 conversion factor from your inch lbs to Albert's foot lbs.
Can you take a look at Albert's presentation at: http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bigger-Brakes-for-Manny-System.pdf specifically page 3 and explain who's on first and what's on second.
And lest we forget and take this down the hijacked rabbit hole, let us all remember that the original question was about emergency brakes. Given that, perhaps a new thread on my question would be best.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #275189 is a reply to message #274995] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 10:03 |
Thomas Pryor
Messages: 143
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Robert Peesel wrote: I installed the 6-wheel disc brake system two years
ago.........any one installed a combination brake caliper mechanical
emergency brake.....any recommendations ? Caveats?
A TERMINOLOGY EXPLANATION IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO PROCEED:
"EMERGENCY BRAKE SYSTEM" as defined by FMCSA is for trailer safety and
is a redundant braking system that activates during-break away. This term
does not apply to our coaches or any other stand alone vehicle. http://www.
fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.43
"PARKING BRAKE SYSTEM" as defined by FMCSA "is a parking brake system
adequate to hold the vehicle.........on any grade on which it is
operated....capable of being applied by either the drivers's effort or
spring action......the system shall be held in the applied position by
energy other than fluid pressure, air pressure, or electric energy." See
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.41
ROBERT,
PUT ON A KELSEY HAYES PB SYSTEM PROVIDED BY ALBERT BRANSCOMBE OR THE
DISC/DRUM SYSTEM PROVIDED BY APPLIED GMC. THEY ARE BOTH LEGAL AND
EFFECTIVE.
YOU MAY WANT TO INVESTIGATE SOME OF THE OTHER HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS SUGGESTED,
IF INSTALLED, THEY WOULD BE AT ODDS WITH THE FMSCA DEFINITIONS AND
REQUIREMENTS.
MOST SYTEMS ARE ADVERTISED AS "NOT FOR STREET USE", SEEhttp://www.wilwood
.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds572.pdf
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Huppy wrote: what about the 1 ton conversion with the 11" rotors?
JIM,
MY ASSUMPTION IS THE CALIPERS PISTON ON THE 1 TON IS A 70MM OR 80MM , THE
SAME AS OUR GMC COACH. IE THE ROTOR MUST FIT INSIDE OUR WHEEL ENVELOPE. SO
THE BRAKING FORCES WOULD BE THE SAME. 9043 TO 10968 INCH LBS.
HOWEVER THE HARRISON 12" is a real Show stopper! The 12" rotor runs along
side the wheel, not inside it. The 80mm GMIII caliper and pad contact 1"
further from center than our stock brake pad contact point. "My guess" is
that the stop force would probably exceed 12000 inch lbs. of stop force.
I've got a message into Willwood Engineering for that calculation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Henderson wrote: Nice work.Sure would be nice to see a spreadsheet of
your calculations.
THANX KEN, I'M SENDING YOU MY SPREAD SHEET UNDER SEPARATE COVER AND
CALCULATIONS FROM Conner Crowley at Consolidatred Metco inc. FOR THE DRUMS.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry Pinkerton wrote: Tom, I have no argument that the stock drums are a
much more effective parking brake than anything other than Alberts KH
system...................... Albert's presentation .......page 3 and
explain.
KERRY I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE.
I BELIEVE ALBERTS PAGE 3 CALCS. ARE THE SOURCES HE IDENTIFIED THAT HAVE
BEEN USED IN THE PAST. HE SHOWS THEM IN LBS ONLY AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAS
MADE SOME CONVERSIONS TO SHOW EQUALITY, ETC. THE CALCULATIONS I PROVIDED
ARE FROM RECOGNIZED INDUSTRY SOURCES FOR BOTH DRUMS AND DISCS. THEY ARE NOT
OF MY INVENTION. (I AM ONLY THE HUNTER GATHERER.)
THE BOTTOM LINE OF ALBERTS PRESENTATION IS THAT THE MANNY BRAKE SYSTEM
UTILIZES:
1. A GM METRIC CALIPER (D154) THAT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE LATE 70'S & 80'S
AS A DOWNSIZING EFFORT BY GM FOR THE SMALLER VEHICLES OF THAT PERIOD.
2. THEY ARE INADEQUATE AND SHOULD BE REPLACED FOR STOP TORQUE DURABILTIY
AND PARKING BRAKE ISSUES.
3. USE THE LARGER GMIII CALIPER FOR ROBUSTNESS AND ADD THE KELSEY HAYES
VERSION OF THE GMIII CALIPER FOR PARKING BRAKE APPLICATION.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Mueller wrote: Double Trouble has:
1) 80mm calipers on the front wheels
2) 80mm calipers and Caddy backing plates on the middle wheels
3) OEM drums on the rear which are connected to the hand brake
4) Pads and shoes are all carbon metallic
5) It passed NJ state inspection which includes a hand brake test
ROB, IN MY OPINION YOU HAVE THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE AND ENHANCED SYTEM
GOING. IT HAS THE CAPACITY GIVE YOU A CALCULATED 52574 INCH LBS OF STOP
TORQUE. YOU AND MANY COACHES LIKE YOURS HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY ENHANCED BY
INSTALLING CADILLAC GMCIII CALIPERS BRACKETS ON INTERMEDIATES AND STOCK
REAR DRUMS BUT NO REACTION ARMS. ADDING REACTIONS ARMS WOULD GAIN YOU A 30%
IMPROVEMENT. SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1peHuX6NpH0&feature=youtu
.be TURN DOWN YOUR VOLUME.
ROB, AT THE NEXT CONVENTION I CAN ADD THE REACTION ARM TREATMENT TO YOUR
COACH USING THE COMPONENTS YOU HAVE ALREADY INSTALLED. CALL OR EMAIL ME!
I'M CHEAP BUT NOT FREE!
Regards,
Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186
Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #275225 is a reply to message #275189] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 21:40 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
Thanks for the compliment. I intend to duplicate that system on The Blue Streak here in Australia.
As far as the reaction arm goes I agree that it will provide the BEST braking possible whether it be installed on disk or drum
brakes.
The reaction arm system provides extra braking power by preventing them from lifting the coach and transferring weight off the rear
wheels until the tires hit the limits of the coefficient of friction and begin to skid. Without question it WILL shorten the
stopping distance of a GMC especially in a panic stop.
However, I know how Double Trouble brakes and I drive within its limits. I leave lots of space between Double Trouble and the
vehicle in front of it (at least three GMC lengths), when someone pulls in that area I slow down and reestablish it, while on a
freeway I pull into the left lane when we approach an on ramp (just like the truckers); and I am VERY careful when I approach an
intersection as that is when we are most vulnerable to poor drivers. I drive my GMC like I ride my Harley, nobody sees me, nobody
hears me, everybody is going to run me over!
I appreciate your offer to install the reaction arm system; however, I'll keep on truckin' as is.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Pryor
Rob Mueller wrote: Double Trouble has:
1) 80mm calipers on the front wheels
2) 80mm calipers and Caddy backing plates on the middle wheels
3) OEM drums on the rear which are connected to the hand brake
4) Pads and shoes are all carbon metallic
5) It passed NJ state inspection which includes a hand brake test
ROB, IN MY OPINION YOU HAVE THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE AND ENHANCED SYTEM
GOING. IT HAS THE CAPACITY GIVE YOU A CALCULATED 52574 INCH LBS OF STOP
TORQUE. YOU AND MANY COACHES LIKE YOURS HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY ENHANCED BY
INSTALLING CADILLAC GMCIII CALIPERS BRACKETS ON INTERMEDIATES AND STOCK
REAR DRUMS BUT NO REACTION ARMS. ADDING REACTIONS ARMS WOULD GAIN YOU A 30%
IMPROVEMENT. SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1peHuX6NpH0&feature=youtu
.be TURN DOWN YOUR VOLUME.
ROB, AT THE NEXT CONVENTION I CAN ADD THE REACTION ARM TREATMENT TO YOUR
COACH USING THE COMPONENTS YOU HAVE ALREADY INSTALLED. CALL OR EMAIL ME!
I'M CHEAP BUT NOT FREE!
Regards,
Tom
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #275227 is a reply to message #275013] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 21:46 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Sat, 04 April 2015 18:00G'day,
Double Trouble has:
1) 80mm calipers on the front wheels
2) 80mm calipers and Caddy backing plates on the middle wheels
3) OEM drums on the rear which are connected to the hand brake
4) Pads and shoes are all carbon metallic
5) It passed NJ state inspection which includes a hand brake test
Regards,
Rob M.
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Rob, what is the NJ handbrake test?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #275230 is a reply to message #275225] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 21:57 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Mon, 06 April 2015 20:40Tom,
Thanks for the compliment. I intend to duplicate that system on The Blue Streak here in Australia.
As far as the reaction arm goes I agree that it will provide the BEST braking possible whether it be installed on disk or drum
brakes.
The reaction arm system provides extra braking power by preventing them from lifting the coach and transferring weight off the rear
wheels until the tires hit the limits of the coefficient of friction and begin to skid. Without question it WILL shorten the
stopping distance of a GMC especially in a panic stop.
However, I know how Double Trouble brakes and I drive within its limits. I leave lots of space between Double Trouble and the
vehicle in front of it (at least three GMC lengths), when someone pulls in that area I slow down and reestablish it, while on a
freeway I pull into the left lane when we approach an on ramp (just like the truckers); and I am VERY careful when I approach an
intersection as that is when we are most vulnerable to poor drivers. I drive my GMC like I ride my Harley, nobody sees me, nobody
hears me, everybody is going to run me over!
I appreciate your offer to install the reaction arm system; however, I'll keep on truckin' as is.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Pryor
Rob Mueller wrote: Double Trouble has:
1) 80mm calipers on the front wheels
2) 80mm calipers and Caddy backing plates on the middle wheels
3) OEM drums on the rear which are connected to the hand brake
4) Pads and shoes are all carbon metallic
5) It passed NJ state inspection which includes a hand brake test
ROB, IN MY OPINION YOU HAVE THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE AND ENHANCED SYTEM
GOING. IT HAS THE CAPACITY GIVE YOU A CALCULATED 52574 INCH LBS OF STOP
TORQUE. YOU AND MANY COACHES LIKE YOURS HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY ENHANCED BY
INSTALLING CADILLAC GMCIII CALIPERS BRACKETS ON INTERMEDIATES AND STOCK
REAR DRUMS BUT NO REACTION ARMS. ADDING REACTIONS ARMS WOULD GAIN YOU A 30%
IMPROVEMENT. SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1peHuX6NpH0&feature=youtu
.be TURN DOWN YOUR VOLUME.
ROB, AT THE NEXT CONVENTION I CAN ADD THE REACTION ARM TREATMENT TO YOUR
COACH USING THE COMPONENTS YOU HAVE ALREADY INSTALLED. CALL OR EMAIL ME!
I'M CHEAP BUT NOT FREE!
Regards,
Tom
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Rob, Tom's analyses speak to the ability of the braking system but things like co-efficient of friction due to tires, road surface, suspension interaction is the rest of the story.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Disc Brake & Emergency Brake caliper [message #275255 is a reply to message #275247] |
Tue, 07 April 2015 08:02 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I do wonder about how much braking torque matters. Without reaction arms,
the stock system cannot make use of the traction available. With the stock
system in good order and with good pads, and reaction arms, I think you can
skid all 6 tires on dry pavement. Unless you are switching to racing
slicks, I don't see how more power can help.
Now, improved heat dissipation, lower petal forces for maximum braking, and
easier servicing (for that matter, drums bother me, Edwardian clockwork
kludged to use hydraulics). But I don't see how they can make a single stop
from freeway speeds any better than stock + reaction arms.
But you really should go with reaction arms, as noted, you can get quite a
bit more braking force with them. That bogie axle? Once it locks, the
torque that lifted it goes away, so it takes it's normal share of the load,
unloading the other one, the one that is being pushed into the pavement.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
> "However, I know how Double Trouble brakes and I drive within its limits."
>
> Always good advice......but what do you do when its the GMC that requires
> you to stop or slow fast? Or its another crashing vehicle that suddenly
> removes that gap in front of you?
>
> Seems one should fit the best brakes available and that you can afford.
>
>
>
> Pete
>
> --
> Cary, NC
>
> No Coach yet but dicided it will be wet bath.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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