Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent...
| [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 07:06  |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Netters
If you see this subject line and know what I'm talking about, I need some
help.
A recent discussion about shop lighting prompted me to look at my own
system. I have all T12 bulbs and fixtures where some work and others do not.
So , I have a question.
Is there any way to test a T12 bulb ?
Is there a way to test ballast in a 2 or 4 light system?
Electrics are not my long suit, so assume you are speaking to a mouth
breather and hopefully I will understand enough to 'see' the bigger things
on my shop floor..
Thanks
Mike in NS
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272533 is a reply to message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 08:25  |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kingsley Coach wrote on Tue, 24 February 2015 08:06Netters
If you see this subject line and know what I'm talking about, I need some help.
A recent discussion about shop lighting prompted me to look at my own system. I have all T12 bulbs and fixtures where some work and others do not.
So , I have a question.
Is there any way to test a T12 bulb ?
Is there a way to test ballast in a 2 or 4 light system?
Electrics are not my long suit, so assume you are speaking to a mouth breather and hopefully I will understand enough to 'see' the bigger things on my shop floor..
Thanks
Mike in NS
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Mike,
I fight the same battle often.
The short answer is - none that I know of.
This is for either lamps or ballast.
At one time I used to check the continuity between the pins of lamps, but then I discovered a few that would glow and one end and still not light.
While it might possible to check for the continuity of the windings of a ballast, you have to dig down to where you can see the color codes of the leads to even do that. The other problem is that I keep forgetting what should be good to what and when I did know, it was not universally true of all ballasts and some that could pass the cold test would not light a new T12.
What do I do? Every so often I buy a box of 4'T12s. When gets strange, I replace it. When they both go out, I unplug the fixture and when I have time, I take it down. When I have it down I mark both lamps and swap in new. If it does not start when I power it up, I put the new lamps back in the box and put the fixture with lamps aside.
If they both go out at the same time, it is often the ballast, so I will buy a balla$t (we will get back to that). When I replace the ballast, then I try to original lamps again. This is often successful, but it is a Pyrrhic Victory as a (around here at least) complete shop light is about 20$us and a ballast that I have to install is about 15$us.
What I am eying right now is the LED shop lights. I just saw some at Costco and I may have misread the price, but they make be cost effective as the 20$us fixture does not include lamps. These might come on in the cold and have better life.
Boy, I bet this was a lot of help.
Well, maybe it will keep you from thinking that there has to be an easy way around this.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272540 is a reply to message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 10:33 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Aren't the T12s being phased out in order to be replaced with T8s? I thought I had read that they would not be available in the future.
If that's true and you need to replace the ballast, should one choose a T8 one to convert the fixture?
Sorry, I know this is not really GMC related, but does seem to be a knowledgeable group that may have suggestions!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272544 is a reply to message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 10:35 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
As has been said already, trial and error is the easiest way you have at your disposal. Just take the suspect tubes and try them in a known working fixture. Take good working tubes and try them in a suspect fixture.
A few pointers. Fluorescent tubes do not like dirt and dust deposits. It appears to have something to do with how the dirt discharges static electricity. Keeping the tubes clean will help with the starting and brightness of the tubes. If the fixtures are in a humid location, the end contacts corrode lightly and affect electrical contact. Often rotating the tube in it's sockets will restore function for a while.
I have a few 4' & 8' tubes that are 15-20 years old and still work. I have others that are failing at less than 2 years old. All of them are installed in the same environment.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 8:06 AM, Kingsley Coach wrote:
>
> Netters
>
> If you see this subject line and know what I'm talking about, I need some
> help.
> A recent discussion about shop lighting prompted me to look at my own
> system. I have all T12 bulbs and fixtures where some work and others do not.
>
> So , I have a question.
> Is there any way to test a T12 bulb ?
> Is there a way to test ballast in a 2 or 4 light system?
>
> Electrics are not my long suit, so assume you are speaking to a mouth
> breather and hopefully I will understand enough to 'see' the bigger things
> on my shop floor..
>
> Thanks
> Mike in NS
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
>
> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272547 is a reply to message #272540] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 10:46 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't have an answer for that question, but I will say it will piss off an awful lot of people. Not all t12 ballasts will fire up a t8 tube so it will necessitate either a fixture or a ballast replacement.
Regarding a decent source for cheap ballasts. I have bought from Sunpark Electronics. I bought their SL15T electronic ballasts by the case for retrofitting my 4' fixtures. Not the best ones out there, but for the price, I'll tolerate a bad ballast once in a while. They will power the T8 or T12 tubes and are almost an instant on except in severe cold.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 11:33 AM, George Rudawsky wrote:
>
> Aren't the T12s being phased out in order to be replaced with T8s? I thought I had read that they would not be available in the future.
>
> If that's true and you need to replace the ballast, should one choose a T8 one to convert the fixture?
>
> Sorry, I know this is not really GMC related, but does seem to be a knowledgeable group that may have suggestions!
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272551 is a reply to message #272547] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 11:23 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Back in the 'day ' we would just change lamps if they were out and if that didn't work a new ballast was in order. Not very scientific but the fastest/ easiest way we knew.
A tip for those with flickering lamps or leaving a burned out lamp in a multiple lamp fixture, REPLACE the lamps. If you don't you'll most likely be replacing the ballast soon as they are trying to start the lamps and will probably kill themselves shorty.
The Costco $29 LED looks to be a bargin-if they live as advertized. Time will tell.
JMHO,Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272563 is a reply to message #272551] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 13:42 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks guys
If you didn't have an answer...there is none!
This really is GMC content....I need light to fix GMC 'stuff' ..
Appreciated !
Mike in NS
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Hal StClair
wrote:
> Back in the 'day ' we would just change lamps if they were out and if that
> didn't work a new ballast was in order. Not very scientific but the
> fastest/ easiest way we knew.
> A tip for those with flickering lamps or leaving a burned out lamp in a
> multiple lamp fixture, REPLACE the lamps. If you don't you'll most likely be
> replacing the ballast soon as they are trying to start the lamps and will
> probably kill themselves shorty.
> The Costco $29 LED looks to be a bargin-if they live as advertized. Time
> will tell.
> JMHO,Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272568 is a reply to message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 16:22 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Michael,
I have some experience with these. (Retrofitting about 320 fixtures since 1992.) Something not mentioned here so far unless I missed it is the "fact" (I believe it to be a fact.), that some older, heavy, magnetic T12 ballasts will "eat" bulbs. If your memory isn't perfect, you might be putting bulbs in month after month only to have them fail.
I used to say that the way to go is to replace all T12 bulbs with T8 bulbs and replace the ballast. Often you could replace, in a 4 lamp fixture, two magnetic ballasts with one "electronic" ballast, and save extra electricity. If anyone doubts the electronic ballasts save electricity, just try to hold a magnetic ballast in your hand after taking it down after it has been on for a couple of hours, whether it is serving a lit bulb or not. It will be too hot to handle. Not so for electronic ballasts.
The selling points for electronic ballasts: Less power usage for almost equal lumens out. Longer bulb life, and better lumen maintenance, meaning they stay bright longer. Less flickering. Mounting holes the same as the removed ballast, wire color codes the same. Moves the flickering frequency out of the 60 Hz range where some minute percentage of the population says they can see the flicker, which causes epileptic seizures, etc. So the flicker is in the thousands of Hertz, where nobody can see it flicker. Long calculated MTBF. (Mean Time Between Failures) Like 60,000 hours. Amtek Ballasts have a MTBF of 3 million hours. One light fails, rest of fixture still lights, unlike magnetic ballasts. They seem to treat bulbs better, and don't "eat" bulbs. They can cause RFI (Radio Frequency Interference), a "hash" that is hard on short wave receiving.
What they didn't tell me: In the early to middle years of the past decade one manufacturer sold scads of electronic ballasts and OEM fixture ballasts which failed after a year or so. Their problem was the input transformer was soldered into the circuit board directly and the hum of the component was enough to loosen and fail the solder holding the wire to the pad. I must have replaced 75 of these and I believe all will fail. They have a yellow and black label and REL in their part name, and are still available. I don't trust any of the products from this manufacturer. They replaced them under warranty until the local jobber got tired of my coming by with my batches of ballasts. They failed whether I retrofit the ballast or they came as OEM. I found that the GE brand of ballast was superior, I have never replaced one of their ballasts, nor have I ever replaced a Motorola ballast, though they sold that business years ago. The GE ballast comes in three "brightnesses", low, standard, and high. I have taken to using the low brightness ballasts, as they presumably are "easier" on the tubes, and I frankly can't see much if any difference in brightness. The low uses a bit less energy. One benefit of using these ballasts has been the consistent brightness of the illumination, and the less maintenance by far needed to replace bulbs. I estimate that instead of a monthly headache, I have a yearly headache replacing bulbs in an institution. Bulbs nowadays also seem to be variable in quality. I like Sylvania-Osram, but others are likely just as good, but some worse.
This bad ballast situation has been a godsend for electricians. They can go back to their customer when called that the light is out after a year, buy a new ballast, replace it without much trouble at all, and charge the customer for a new ballast. They don't complain. The complainers are like me who feel like an orangutan because my arms are always in the air, waiting for the next ballast to fail. The magnetic ballasts didn't fail like that. They just subtly wasted your money until you figured out that the ballast was destroying your bulbs, while wasting energy and occasionally dripping tar and smoking up the place, and scaring the horses.
Because many fluorescents are lit off and on many times per day which is hard on them, I am looking forward to LED lighting becoming more cost-efficient. It offers savings yet over the best fluorescents. Their lumen maintenance is superior to fluorescents. Hard to see a down side for these, as their MTBF is superior to the best fluorescents. They have the potential of revolutionizing fixtures, making smaller and lighter fixtures practical. Presently, quality is variable, and cost is extremely variable. I am staying tuned.
More than you wanted to know. Your mileage may vary, and this is just what I believe to be what I have learned from my experience.
Good luck with your relamping efforts.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272570 is a reply to message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 17:00 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Just R&R with T8 lamps and ballasts, and you will save $$$ on electricity...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272571 is a reply to message #272568] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 17:15 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Carey
While I'm having trouble getting the ' orangoutang ' image out of my head
; that of you sitting on the floor with arms reaching upwards wrists bent
at a 90* angle and typing away on your laptop , I do appreciate the effort
you put into your answer.
It's confusing what to do, so when confused, I usually back off, have a
beer and give it full thought. This can take anywhere from a couple of
hours to a couple of months.. The number of beer often plays a part.
Thanks one and all...
Mike in NS
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Carey Bryan wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I have some experience with these. (Retrofitting about 320 fixtures since
> 1992.) Something not mentioned here so far unless I missed it is the "fact"
> (I believe it to be a fact.), that some older, heavy, magnetic T12
> ballasts will "eat" bulbs. If your memory isn't perfect, you might be
> putting
> bulbs in month after month only to have them fail.
>
> I used to say that the way to go is to replace all T12 bulbs with T8 bulbs
> and replace the ballast. Often you could replace, in a 4 lamp fixture, two
> magnetic ballasts with one "electronic" ballast, and save extra
> electricity. If anyone doubts the electronic ballasts save electricity,
> just try to
> hold a magnetic ballast in your hand after taking it down after it has
> been on for a couple of hours, whether it is serving a lit bulb or not. It
> will be too hot to handle. Not so for electronic ballasts.
>
> The selling points for electronic ballasts: Less power usage for almost
> equal lumens out. Longer bulb life, and better lumen maintenance, meaning
> they stay bright longer. Less flickering. Mounting holes the same as the
> removed ballast, wire color codes the same. Moves the flickering frequency
> out of the 60 Hz range where some minute percentage of the population says
> they can see the flicker, which causes epileptic seizures, etc. So the
> flicker is in the thousands of Hertz, where nobody can see it flicker.
> Long calculated MTBF. (Mean Time Between Failures) Like 60,000 hours.
> Amtek
> Ballasts have a MTBF of 3 million hours. One light fails, rest of fixture
> still lights, unlike magnetic ballasts. They seem to treat bulbs better,
> and don't "eat" bulbs. They can cause RFI (Radio Frequency Interference),
> a "hash" that is hard on short wave receiving.
>
> What they didn't tell me: In the early to middle years of the past decade
> one manufacturer sold scads of electronic ballasts and OEM fixture ballasts
> which failed after a year or so. Their problem was the input transformer
> was soldered into the circuit board directly and the hum of the component
> was enough to loosen and fail the solder holding the wire to the pad. I
> must have replaced 75 of these and I believe all will fail. They have a
> yellow and black label and REL in their part name, and are still
> available. I don't trust any of the products from this manufacturer. They
> replaced
> them under warranty until the local jobber got tired of my coming by with
> my batches of ballasts. They failed whether I retrofit the ballast or they
> came as OEM. I found that the GE brand of ballast was superior, I have
> never replaced one of their ballasts, nor have I ever replaced a Motorola
> ballast, though they sold that business years ago. The GE ballast comes
> in three "brightnesses", low, standard, and high. I have taken to using the
> low brightness ballasts, as they presumably are "easier" on the tubes, and
> I frankly can't see much if any difference in brightness. The low uses a
> bit less energy. One benefit of using these ballasts has been the
> consistent brightness of the illumination, and the less maintenance by far
> needed to
> replace bulbs. I estimate that instead of a monthly headache, I have a
> yearly headache replacing bulbs in an institution. Bulbs nowadays also seem
> to
> be variable in quality. I like Sylvania-Osram, but others are likely just
> as good, but some worse.
>
> This bad ballast situation has been a godsend for electricians. They can
> go back to their customer when called that the light is out after a year,
> buy a new ballast, replace it without much trouble at all, and charge the
> customer for a new ballast. They don't complain. The complainers are like
> me who feel like an orangutan because my arms are always in the air,
> waiting for the next ballast to fail. The magnetic ballasts didn't fail
> like
> that. They just subtly wasted your money until you figured out that the
> ballast was destroying your bulbs, while wasting energy and occasionally
> dripping tar and smoking up the place, and scaring the horses.
>
> Because many fluorescents are lit off and on many times per day which is
> hard on them, I am looking forward to LED lighting becoming more
> cost-efficient. It offers savings yet over the best fluorescents. Their
> lumen maintenance is superior to fluorescents. Hard to see a down side for
> these, as their MTBF is superior to the best fluorescents. They have the
> potential of revolutionizing fixtures, making smaller and lighter fixtures
> practical. Presently, quality is variable, and cost is extremely
> variable. I am staying tuned.
>
> More than you wanted to know. Your mileage may vary, and this is just
> what I believe to be what I have learned from my experience.
>
> Good luck with your relamping efforts.
>
> Carey
> --
> Carey from Ennis, Texas
> 78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272572 is a reply to message #272571] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 17:18 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Chris
I have several 4 bulb units and about 8 2 bulb units and as well, a
lifetime supply of T 12 bulbs . And I am a Scotsman!
Mike in NS
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Kingsley Coach
wrote:
> Carey
>
> While I'm having trouble getting the ' orangoutang ' image out of my
> head ; that of you sitting on the floor with arms reaching upwards wrists
> bent at a 90* angle and typing away on your laptop , I do appreciate the
> effort you put into your answer.
>
> It's confusing what to do, so when confused, I usually back off, have a
> beer and give it full thought. This can take anywhere from a couple of
> hours to a couple of months.. The number of beer often plays a part.
>
> Thanks one and all...
>
> Mike in NS
>
> On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Carey Bryan wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I have some experience with these. (Retrofitting about 320 fixtures since
>> 1992.) Something not mentioned here so far unless I missed it is the "fact"
>> (I believe it to be a fact.), that some older, heavy, magnetic T12
>> ballasts will "eat" bulbs. If your memory isn't perfect, you might be
>> putting
>> bulbs in month after month only to have them fail.
>>
>> I used to say that the way to go is to replace all T12 bulbs with T8
>> bulbs and replace the ballast. Often you could replace, in a 4 lamp
>> fixture, two
>> magnetic ballasts with one "electronic" ballast, and save extra
>> electricity. If anyone doubts the electronic ballasts save electricity,
>> just try to
>> hold a magnetic ballast in your hand after taking it down after it has
>> been on for a couple of hours, whether it is serving a lit bulb or not. It
>> will be too hot to handle. Not so for electronic ballasts.
>>
>> The selling points for electronic ballasts: Less power usage for almost
>> equal lumens out. Longer bulb life, and better lumen maintenance, meaning
>> they stay bright longer. Less flickering. Mounting holes the same as the
>> removed ballast, wire color codes the same. Moves the flickering frequency
>> out of the 60 Hz range where some minute percentage of the population
>> says they can see the flicker, which causes epileptic seizures, etc. So the
>> flicker is in the thousands of Hertz, where nobody can see it flicker.
>> Long calculated MTBF. (Mean Time Between Failures) Like 60,000 hours.
>> Amtek
>> Ballasts have a MTBF of 3 million hours. One light fails, rest of fixture
>> still lights, unlike magnetic ballasts. They seem to treat bulbs better,
>> and don't "eat" bulbs. They can cause RFI (Radio Frequency
>> Interference), a "hash" that is hard on short wave receiving.
>>
>> What they didn't tell me: In the early to middle years of the past
>> decade one manufacturer sold scads of electronic ballasts and OEM fixture
>> ballasts
>> which failed after a year or so. Their problem was the input transformer
>> was soldered into the circuit board directly and the hum of the component
>> was enough to loosen and fail the solder holding the wire to the pad. I
>> must have replaced 75 of these and I believe all will fail. They have a
>> yellow and black label and REL in their part name, and are still
>> available. I don't trust any of the products from this manufacturer. They
>> replaced
>> them under warranty until the local jobber got tired of my coming by with
>> my batches of ballasts. They failed whether I retrofit the ballast or they
>> came as OEM. I found that the GE brand of ballast was superior, I have
>> never replaced one of their ballasts, nor have I ever replaced a Motorola
>> ballast, though they sold that business years ago. The GE ballast comes
>> in three "brightnesses", low, standard, and high. I have taken to using the
>> low brightness ballasts, as they presumably are "easier" on the tubes,
>> and I frankly can't see much if any difference in brightness. The low uses
>> a
>> bit less energy. One benefit of using these ballasts has been the
>> consistent brightness of the illumination, and the less maintenance by far
>> needed to
>> replace bulbs. I estimate that instead of a monthly headache, I have a
>> yearly headache replacing bulbs in an institution. Bulbs nowadays also seem
>> to
>> be variable in quality. I like Sylvania-Osram, but others are likely
>> just as good, but some worse.
>>
>> This bad ballast situation has been a godsend for electricians. They
>> can go back to their customer when called that the light is out after a
>> year,
>> buy a new ballast, replace it without much trouble at all, and charge the
>> customer for a new ballast. They don't complain. The complainers are like
>> me who feel like an orangutan because my arms are always in the air,
>> waiting for the next ballast to fail. The magnetic ballasts didn't fail
>> like
>> that. They just subtly wasted your money until you figured out that the
>> ballast was destroying your bulbs, while wasting energy and occasionally
>> dripping tar and smoking up the place, and scaring the horses.
>>
>> Because many fluorescents are lit off and on many times per day which is
>> hard on them, I am looking forward to LED lighting becoming more
>> cost-efficient. It offers savings yet over the best fluorescents. Their
>> lumen maintenance is superior to fluorescents. Hard to see a down side for
>> these, as their MTBF is superior to the best fluorescents. They have the
>> potential of revolutionizing fixtures, making smaller and lighter fixtures
>> practical. Presently, quality is variable, and cost is extremely
>> variable. I am staying tuned.
>>
>> More than you wanted to know. Your mileage may vary, and this is just
>> what I believe to be what I have learned from my experience.
>>
>> Good luck with your relamping efforts.
>>
>> Carey
>> --
>> Carey from Ennis, Texas
>> 78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
>
> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
>
>
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272575 is a reply to message #272531] |
Tue, 24 February 2015 17:54 |
 |
SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Carey, good explanation, I give you NALMCO senior lighting technician status. Having retrofit, or manage retrofits in the millions, in the last 23 years, I can safely say, if a T12 ( the T= tube, and the number 12 is in 8ths of an inch 12/8= 1 1/2" diameter. A 2 lamp T12 ballast is wired in series, if one lamp fails, the second will generally light, usually dimmer and lots off 60hz flicker. Know why a ballast hums? It forgot the words. T8 blast is electronic and won't hum. T12 T8 and T5 lamps are incompatible...a T5 socket is different altogether, there is a T10, but it is rare. Furthermore, F40T12CW, (40 watt) were banned in the 1992 energy policy act...if the lamp you have is a true F40T12 it has served you well...the energy policy act lamps are 36W and called F40T12CW (cool white 4100K) with the designation SS ( super saver) or EW (eficiency wattage) a standard magnetic T12 ballast will power these lamps, but over-drive them and they will fail prematurely.
Either replace ballast and lamp with T8...or go with LED...
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272595 is a reply to message #272531] |
Wed, 25 February 2015 04:04 |
quadracerx1
Messages: 207
Registered: April 2013
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
So I hope I understand correctly, if you replace the ballast in an existing T12 fixture with an electronic version that is compatible with T8 bulbs you are good to go?
Or do you have to replace the ends (where the bulb clips in) to go with T8?
Sorry electrical moron here...
Thanks,
Steve
75 26' GMC Glenbrook
Puyallup, Washington
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272596 is a reply to message #272531] |
Wed, 25 February 2015 05:15 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Sean and others, All this florescent discussion leads me to a related question.
When I was a young man, I asked why government buildings frequently left their florescent lights on continually. The answer I got was that the total costs was less to leave them on because the start up cycles was a major source of aging on both tubes and ballasts. Of course this was T12.
Was that true then? Is it still true now with T5s? How about twisty bulbs?
My wife is forever turning off lights in the house to save money but I expect the twisty bulbs we use don't like the additional cycles?
Your thoughts?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272598 is a reply to message #272596] |
Wed, 25 February 2015 05:59 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The only thing I know is your wife is my sister in law !
Mike
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> Sean and others, All this florescent discussion leads me to a related
> question.
>
> When I was a young man, I asked why government buildings frequently left
> their florescent lights on continually. The answer I got was that the total
> costs was less to leave them on because the start up cycles was a major
> source of aging on both tubes and ballasts. Of course this was T12.
>
> Was that true then? Is it still true now with T5s? How about twisty
> bulbs?
>
> My wife is forever turning off lights in the house to save money but I
> expect the twisty bulbs we use don't like the additional cycles?
>
> Your thoughts?
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76
> Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272600 is a reply to message #272595] |
Wed, 25 February 2015 06:06 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This not an answer to your question but the IBM building that I worked in computer controlled all of the lights for the 50 plus floors. We could manually override them 1/4 of a floor at a time but the computer took over again at 6 PM and midnight. The heat generated from the lights was used to heat the entire building, so occasionally in the dead of winter probably zero and below you would see the lights turned on late at night. The heat from the lights and a few computer floors was the only source of heat for the building. The building was designed by IBM in the 1960's and opened in 1969. We also sold the same control system to clients.
My point is that fluorescent lights put off a lot of heat that either needs to be reused or removed with air conditioning. Turn off the lights when not needed.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272614 is a reply to message #272531] |
Wed, 25 February 2015 10:14 |
|
SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The T-12/8 sockets are the same size...most electronic ballasts have one wire that glues to one socket, if you are retrofitting an ond fixture, you will splice the two (blue or red usually) to the one ballast lead. There are lots of wiring examples...just google it.
The myth that fluorescent lamps are cheaper to keep on is a fallacy, there will be a reduction in run hours if the fluorescent lamp is in a bathroom, that may get turned on/off 10 times a day, but then again, it's only on for a few minutes at a time. But this is the case for incandescent also, every time power is applied to the filament (or cathode heater) minute amounts of tungsten are vaporized and stick to the inside of the glass, that is why you get dark spots on the ends of the tubes...when not in use, turn off the juice...
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
[Updated on: Wed, 25 February 2015 10:15] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] 4' T12 Fluorescent... [message #272627 is a reply to message #272614] |
Wed, 25 February 2015 13:35 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Sean
Why don't you swing by some day? I've got something to show ya !....
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Sean Kidd wrote:
> The T-12/8 sockets are the same size...most electronic ballasts have one
> wire that glues to one socket, if you are retrofitting an ond fixture, you
> will splice the two (blue or red usually) to the one ballast lead. There
> are lots of wiring examples...just google it.
>
> The myth that fluorescent lamps are cheaper to keep on is a fallacy, there
> will be a reduction in run hours if the fluorescent lamp is in a bathroom,
> that may get turned on/off 10 times a day, but then again, it's only on
> for a few minutes at a time. But this is the case for incandescent also,
> every time power is applied to the filament (or cathode heater) minute
> amounts of tungsten are vaporized and stick to the inside of the glass,
> that is
> why you get dark spots on the ends of the tubes...
> --
> Sean and Stephanie
> 73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
> Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD
> Honda 6500 inverter gen.
>
> Colonial Travelers
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Sep 30 17:13:30 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01098 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
