Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Transmission Filters - partially GMC related
| Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271594] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 08:41  |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Last year Tom in Virginia had issues with the way various trans filters worked and fit in his GMC's TH425. I just ran into essentially the same issue with my daily driver, a 2005 Ford Crown Vic. It seems that all trans filters are not created equal.
Story:
Last August I bought the trans filter and fluid from a major auto parts store (I don't remember which one, it's either Autozone or Advance) and did a trans service. Several days later the trans started randomly shifting strangely -- for example it would shudder halfway through first gear or delay the 2-3 shift. It happened when accelerating from a light or, more frequently, when making a right turn. Also a WOT 4-2 the engine would rev to the limiter and in a couple of seconds bang into gear. Sometimes I could drive 10 miles and it would work fine and sometimes the trans would act up every half mile.
Figuring the trans probably was sucking some air due to a leaky filter and also being lazy and not wanting to drop the pan again so soon I added another quart of fluid so it was now about 2 inches above the full mark. The trans worked fine after that.
On the Ford filter the pipe that goes into the trans is very short compared to the GMC filter. Also, instead of a typical o-ring, it uses a relatively wide seal about 3/8" high, about the equivilent of stacking 2 o-rings on a GMC filter. Because of the short pipe it doesn't take much more fluid to completely submerge the filter/valve body connection. On the GMC it would take probably a few quarts of fluid to submerge the filter/case connection and by then the fluid level would be so high that the rotating parts would be whipping the fluid. That's why on the Ford the extra quart was not really an excessive amount.
Yesterday I dropped the pan on the Ford and the filter fell out while the seal stayed in the valve body. I put the filter back up into the valve body but the seal was so loose it would not hold the filter, the seal was tight in the valve body though. I removed the seal from the valve body and put it on the filter. It was really loose. I put the filter back in and it took some effort to insert the filter/seal in the valve body but there was still very little friction between the filter and seal and the filter fell back out. I think I found my filter leak! Since I was doing some modifications to the valve body we tested the filter fit yet again with the valve body laying on the workbench. Tony S also agreed that there was something definitely wrong with the way the filter and it's seal were working (or not working). The seal was waaaaaay too loose on the filter pipe.
This time I used a genuine Ford (Motorcraft brand) filter. This filter has the seal glued to the filter pipe, it won't come off. I wanted to measure the diameters of both filters pipes but couldn't because of the glued on seal of the Motorcraft filter. With the new Motorcraft filter the transmission works fine with the fluid at the proper level. Amazing what happens when the trans pump is not getting air in it.
The only identifiers on the filters are a "CW 309" on the bad filter (aftermarket brand) and a "Filtran" on the good one (Motorcraft brand).
Questions/Observations:
1. Not all transmission filters are made the same.
2. Sometimes it's worth it to buy the more expensive part from the OEM.
3. How many trans rebuild jobs have been done when it was the filter causing the problem?
4. How many transmissions have been ruined by people who keep driving with it shuddering and banging because of a leaky filter?
5. Did Tom's GMC have a "CW" filter in it when it was acting up? Does it have a "Filtran" in it now?
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271634 is a reply to message #271594] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 15:33  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
Last year I purchased a couple of trans filters from Bob Drewes estate auction that were in a box. I got two filters and pan
gaskets.
Before I returned to Australia I removed the pan from the three transmissions I have in Houston to do some pan swapping; (1) a
switch pitch that Manny built for me (install a Ragusa pan from number (2) - (2) the trans I got with the fire damaged engine from
Canada - (3) a switch pitch trans I bought off eBay.
When I went to install the filters I bought I was aware of the problems that Tom had and decided to try them without the seal. I
found one of them was SERIOUSLY loose and the second one would not fit into the trans!
I measured them all along with the OEM filter I got out of the switch pitch. To answer your next question; I knew it was an OEM
filter because it had a copper tubes on it.
Since both the filters from Bob did not fit correctly (which is probably why he did not install them) I decided to cut them open to
see the filter medium. I thought the trans filters were coarse "horsehair" filters like the oil filled air cleaners from the 1940's.
Where I got that idea I have absolutely NO idea! Well I was wrong, dead wrong! The transmission oil filters are pleated paper.
I ran out of time to photograph and publish the measurements when I was getting ready to leave. I will be heading back to the USA
next week for five weeks to work on Double Trouble and I have put it on my TTD list.
On a final note I would like to state UNEQUIVOCALLY I am not upset, angry, mad, unhappy, or peeved in any way, shape, or form that
the filters I bought from Bob Drewes estate auction were unusable; in fact I'm HAPPY they didn't fit as I (we) will have learned
something valuable from what I found.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
PS - Unfortunately I won't be able to attend the GMCMI Convention as I have an appointment with a surgeon to examine my left knee
for replacement on March 30th.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271686 is a reply to message #271683] |
Wed, 11 February 2015 10:08 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gee Matt, perhaps the WIX BOX was made in the USA. (GRIN)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Feb 11, 2015 7:40 AM, "Matt Colie" wrote:
> JohnL455 wrote on Tue, 10 February 2015 20:36
>> SOooo WIX was the last quality filter still standing. Are they still ok
> or are we SOL? Are ACDelco still made or not or are they Chinese?
>
> Sorry John,
>
> Several years ago, I bought a Wix trans filter that came a box marked
> "Made in USA". When I opened the box, there was a pan gasket and a filter
> that
> was enclosed in a plastic bag marked "Made in China".
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271697 is a reply to message #271594] |
Wed, 11 February 2015 12:07 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt,
I've got two Wix 58882 filters for the GMC that I bought a couple of years ago. Both boxes have a "Contents Made in Taiwan" on the left side of the box. I just opened the boxes and found that the filters both have "58882 Made in Taiwan 0809100P4" stamped on them. The filters are in sealed plastic bags and the only other thing in the boxes is the pan gaskets.
However -- there are no o-rings with either filter.
I learned long ago to be very picky when buying o-rings for transmissions. I would only use o-rings that come with trans rebuild kits or go directly to a car dealer and spend the two bucks-or-so and get the genuine OEM part. I've done the auto parts store tap-dance with their questionable o-rings-in-a-plastic-box-assortments and have paid the price. Like I said in the original post, sometimes it's worth it to buy the OEM part. In the case of the o-ring, sure the genuine GM part is double the cost of the auto parts store part, but for that extra dollar I don't have to re-do the job six months later. BTDT, don't want to do it again.
Edit: o-ring for the TH425 filter is GM part 1363951 and is still available for $3.70.
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
[Updated on: Wed, 11 February 2015 14:20] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271803 is a reply to message #271697] |
Thu, 12 February 2015 10:43 |
Jim at the Co-op
Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm really glad this thread has come up today, I have Manny here at the
shop building trannys and we got into this. I not only stand corrected but
in defending an American company because the were we have overlooked
something important.
Just because it's got USA on it does not mean it is always superior. We
just found today that a br.and new ATP B-40 filter went into the bore
loose. I ordered in a Chinese repo and it fat completely to manny's
satisfaction. ATP sucks and they have not heard the last of me. I am
sorry Tom, you were right--- your filter was sucking air. I have used ATP
on every filter I have ever bought now it will be the only brand I will not
use. ATP now has some explaining to do, I'll let you know the outcome.
Sorry about that guys but hey, American made made not be up to what we
expect yet.
Jim Bounds
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Bob Heller wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I've got two Wix 58882 filters for the GMC that I bought a couple of years
> ago. Both boxes have a "Contents Made in Taiwan" on the left side of the
> box. I just opened the boxes and found that the filters both have "58882
> Made in Taiwan 0809100P4" stamped on them. The filters are in sealed plastic
> bags and the only other thing in the boxes is the pan gaskets.
>
> However -- there are no o-rings with either filter.
>
> I learned long ago to be very picky when buying o-rings for transmissions.
> I would only use o-rings that come with trans rebuild kits or go directly
> to a car dealer and spend the two bucks-or-so and get the genuine OEM
> part. I've done the auto parts store tap-dance with their questionable
> o-rings-in-a-plastic-box-assortments and have paid the price. Like I said
> in the original post, sometimes it's worth it to buy the OEM part. In the
> case of the o-ring, sure the genuine GM part is double the cost of the
> auto parts store part, but for that extra dollar I don't have to re-do the
> job
> six months later. BTDT, don't want to do it again.
> --
> Bob Heller
> 1974 X-Canyonlands 26ft
> Original 455 exc for timing chain,
> Rockwell intake, valve covers. 135k miles.
> Winter Springs FL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271806 is a reply to message #271803] |
Thu, 12 February 2015 10:56 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jim at the Co-op wrote on Thu, 12 February 2015 11:43I'm really glad this thread has come up today, I have Manny here at the shop building trannys and we got into this. I not only stand corrected but in defending an American company because the were we have overlooked something important.
Just because it's got USA on it does not mean it is always superior. We just found today that a br.and new ATP B-40 filter went into the bore
loose. I ordered in a Chinese repo and it fat completely to manny's satisfaction. ATP sucks and they have not heard the last of me. I am
sorry Tom, you were right--- your filter was sucking air. I have used ATP on every filter I have ever bought now it will be the only brand I will not
use. ATP now has some explaining to do, I'll let you know the outcome.
Sorry about that guys but hey, American made made not be up to what we expect yet.
Jim Bounds
Jim,
I am glad to hear that from you - here.
You may not be PC (Politically Correct), but I value honest answers.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271819 is a reply to message #271806] |
Thu, 12 February 2015 12:36 |
Jim at the Co-op
Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If I use a part not knowing there is a problem, when you find there is a
problem I'm part of it unless I say something. ATP is about THE most
respected names in filters, not the cheapest but in my mind the proven
best. It's not the case now and I guess like a pile of other parts we have
already lost, this is yet another example of how you cannot believe anyone
about anything.
Already been in contact with them, I'm sending my proof and am expecting
some movement.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Jim at the Co-op wrote on Thu, 12 February 2015 11:43
>> I'm really glad this thread has come up today, I have Manny here at the
> shop building trannys and we got into this. I not only stand corrected
>> but in defending an American company because the were we have overlooked
> something important.
>>
>> Just because it's got USA on it does not mean it is always superior. We
> just found today that a br.and new ATP B-40 filter went into the bore
>> loose. I ordered in a Chinese repo and it fat completely to manny's
> satisfaction. ATP sucks and they have not heard the last of me. I am
>> sorry Tom, you were right--- your filter was sucking air. I have used
> ATP on every filter I have ever bought now it will be the only brand I will
>> not
>> use. ATP now has some explaining to do, I'll let you know the outcome.
>>
>> Sorry about that guys but hey, American made made not be up to what we
> expect yet.
>>
>> Jim Bounds
>
> Jim,
>
> I am glad to hear that from you - here.
> You may not be PC (Politically Correct), but I value honest answers.
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271832 is a reply to message #271803] |
Thu, 12 February 2015 17:38 |
94nubble
Messages: 275
Registered: July 2011
Location: Chesapeake VA
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jim at the Co-op wrote on Thu, 12 February 2015 11:43]
I'm really glad this thread has come up today, I have Manny here at the
shop building trannys and we got into this. I not only stand corrected but
in defending an American company because the were we have overlooked
something important.
Just because it's got USA on it does not mean it is always superior. We
just found today that a br.and new ATP B-40 filter went into the bore
loose. I ordered in a Chinese repo and it fat completely to manny's
satisfaction. ATP sucks and they have not heard the last of me. I am
sorry Tom, you were right--- your filter was sucking air. I have used ATP
on every filter I have ever bought now it will be the only brand I will not
use. ATP now has some explaining to do, I'll let you know the outcome.
Sorry about that guys but hey, American made made not be up to what we
expect yet.
Jim Bounds
Thank you for the apology.
Tom McManus
1977 Royale
Chesapeake VA
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271965 is a reply to message #271934] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 09:37 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob & All,
Rob is correct we are in Tucson for the winter and it will be April before we are home. When I get home I will do the dimensions and ad to the photo file. It is a great idea to post the dimensions so the other aftermarket filters can be checked. I posted some measurements last midyear, but I think it was only the diameter of the inlet tube which was 0.750. If anyone else has one of the AC Delco PF-169 filters, don’t wait for me.
J.R. Wright
30' Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Location in Tucson
> On Feb 14, 2015, at 2:48 AM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> JR Wright has a GEN-U-INE AC filter P/N TF-169 in his collection of spares. Here's what it looks like:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p36768-ac-transmission-filter.html
>
> As you can see the filter housing has copper inlet and outlet tubes.
>
> I'll be if we ask JR nicely he'll provide us with the measurements of the inlet tube.
>
> It is quite possible that JR and Janet are down in Florida and the filter is in Michigan.
>
> If anyone else has one of these and could provide the measurement it would be great.
>
> We (and our vendors) can use that measurement to check filters made in China when we buy them and before we install them!
>
> Todd,
>
> I assume that your trans pan is off and you want to put it back on now. You could measure the tube on the filter you removed and
> compare it to the filter you intend to install.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Perkins
>
> like we all know, working on a 40 year old hot rod is never easy. :)
>
> How can you tell if it fits correctly? I'm going to do a trans fluid change that sounds complicated and I should do some checks
> before I put the pan back on.
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Todd
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Filters - partially GMC related [message #271997 is a reply to message #271994] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 16:20 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes I got lucky! I actually got three of them for 15$ each plus shipping. The seller had one listed. I asked if he had any others and he replied yes. I grabbed what he had. The boxes are banged up, but the filters are Ok.
I had also bought 4 off brand old stock th425 filters for 6$ each on eBay. I can't remember the brand name at the moment, but they closely resemble the AC filter right down to the copper tube (actually a copper plated steel tube) I'll check the name on the off brand this week when I have a chance to put my hands on the filters. EBay is your friend for finding the good old stuff, just need to be patient and search daily.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
> On Feb 14, 2015, at 4:45 PM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> Les,
>
> You actually FOUND several of the PF-169! Wow!
>
> I'm going to call you Lucky Les from now on! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Burt
>
> I recently purchased several NOS AC Delco PF-169 filters as well as some NOS off brand equivalent from some vendors on eBay. All of
> them have the copper tubes and appear to be near identical. If nobody else provides the dimensions this weekend, I can measure mine,
> but I won't get to them before Monday.
>
> Les Burt
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Fri Oct 04 18:29:21 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01389 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
