| [GMCnet] Dip stick calibration question [message #271537] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 18:33  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I follow you fine, Matt, but what about the issue of warrantee repair costs? If the 6q refill at drain with filter really did over fill the engine by a quart, and it frothed up and caused damage, why did GM not see that and change it? I don't know of any business that is not driven by costs they can avoid and GM apparently was content to live with whatever consequences there were for our coaches by following the spec.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dip stick calibration question [message #271542 is a reply to message #271537] |
Mon, 09 February 2015 19:57  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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glwgmc wrote on Mon, 09 February 2015 19:33I follow you fine, Matt, but what about the issue of warrantee repair costs? If the 6q refill at drain with filter really did over fill the engine by a quart, and it frothed up and caused damage, why did GM not see that and change it? I don't know of any business that is not driven by costs they can avoid and GM apparently was content to live with whatever consequences there were for our coaches by following the spec.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Great Question Jerry,
Ahh, I see there is a point uncovered. Big blocks that aren't racing will never be spun fast enough to foam the lube oil to the extent that the pickup is getting foam. That happens only in little engine with small (4qt) pans spinning 7+K. That can be a disaster in short order, but it is not a problem here.
There are, of course, two sides to the over fill situation.
This was before catalyst engines. So, there at that time only two problems with an engine consuming lube oil.
First, was running out of oil.
As the owners manuals of the day required that the lube oil be between the full and add mark when it was checked at the start of each day and every time the vehicle was fueled, this was not a warranty issue. If the oil level got to the disaster level... "Sorry Guy, you didn't take care of the car. It's not a warranty issue."
Second was coking the rings.
This was very rare at passcar loads. It is caused by the excess oil that would end under the piston and up on the bore walls so it over fills the ring pack, then it would coke in (cook) and clog the oil control rings. This could be an issue with our loads, but not passcar. If it does happen, the owner was using the vehicle outside of its specified capability (like towing a big travel trailer) and that is another "Sorry Guy" case.
The second of those is why most manufactures marketed a "top engine cleaner" solution that could be put in the cylinders to free up coked rings. It did work, but on a the restart, there was SMOKE. Like warn the neighbors kind smoke.
Another part that played heavily in here was that vehicle warranties (pre-emissions) were like 1 or 2 years and 12 to 24K miles. None of the problems noted above were likely to surface in that time.
And another thing that played for the manufactures was the 3k oil change. While this was about right with the technology of the day, if a passcar burned a quart in 2K miles, it might not even be noticed before the next drain.
They sure don't build 'em like they used to. Aren't we glad?
OK, Well I am glad that you got your arms around the first bit. This is pretty plain from the question.
Just for interest, lets jump forward about a decade when emissions standards were getting harder to meet. Now lube oil consumption be came a big issue. Not because anybody cared about the lube going away, but the anti-wear additives that work are all metal soaps (a molecule of a metal and non-metal that has a very low shear strength. That was the problem (and why they had to take out the phosphorus-something and finally the ZDDP) because those will foul both the catalyst and the O2 sensor needed to make the cat cars work. Initially emissions degradation standards were only to 50k miles. The manufacturer could average the fleet emission over that 50K to pass. Now (and I forget the year) The vehicle line has to still be below a maximum emissions level at 100K. If a vehicle line is surveyed and it doesn't meet that standard, the manufacturer has to have a warranty plan to correct the fleet. We are talking big bucks here.
Now, I bet I have raised another question here. If someone knows what it is, I will try to fill that in as best I can.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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