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| Arrrrgh - chit [message #271045] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 13:44  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I ran up to the no - alcohol gas station to refill. 35 gallons of 90 octane... and a spray on my feet. Took a look, fine spray of coolant eminating from the bottom of the (original) radiator. So, out it comes when I get back from Indiananoplace. I wasn't planning on taking it to Indy anyhow, I'll go in the Mouse. If the local radiator shop can rehab it I will, otherwise I'll have to go for the aluminum one. A quick look from the bottom shows the hoses and rear of the radiator dry. I put a gallon of water in and drove it home (~~10 miles) from the gas station without overheating, with the cap loose. In fact, stayed cooler than it has been. Once I took the pressure off it, the leak ceased. I'm glad this appeared on a gas run instead of on the way to someplace. I'd stand a chance of overheating it and tearing it up if I was on the freeway at speed when it let go. Luck of the Irish, I didn't want it to sit with near empty tanks.
Worry of the aluminum one is twofold - first the shipping will be onerous even though the cost is about the same as a new brass one. Second is, my coach has so many strange ground currents running around in it, even with grounding, there's a shot at corrosion I'd rather skip.
Hey, it's only money..... It may be the Patterson money depending.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Mon, 02 February 2015 13:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Arrrrgh - chit [message #271046 is a reply to message #271045] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 14:59  |
Nelson
Messages: 120
Registered: August 2014
Karma: 0
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Johnny,
By any chance did you check the regular gas (up to 10% ethanol) to see what % of ethanol it contained? I checked my local 7-11 this weekend and could not find any sign of ethanol in any of the fuel.
Oh yeah BTW, just leave the pressure cap off and you should be OK until the weather heats up.
Nelson Wright
Orlando FL
78 Royale rear bath
On Feb 2, 2015, at 2:44 PM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> I ran up to the no - alcohol gas station to refill. 35 gallons of 90 octane... and a s[ray on my feet. Took a look, fine spray of coolant eminating
> from the bottom of the (original) radiator. So, out it comes when I get back from Indiananoplace. I wasn't planning on taking it to Indy anyhow,
> I'll go in the Mouse. If the local radiator shop can rehab it I will, otherwise I'll have to go for the aluminum one. A quick look from the bottom
> shows the hoses and rear of the radiator dry. I put a gallon of water in and drove it home (~~10 miles) from the gas station without overheating,
> with the cap loose. In fact, stayed cooler than it has been. Once I took the pressure off it, the leak ceased. I'm glad this appeared on a gas run
> instead of on the way to someplace. I'd stand a chance of overheating it and tearing it up if I was on the freeway at speed when it let go. Luck of
> the Irish, I didn't want it to sit with near empty tanks.
> Worry of the aluminum one is twofold - first the shipping will be onerous even though the cost is about the same as a new brass one. Second is, my
> coach has so many strange ground currents running around in it, even with grounding, there's a shot at corrosion I'd rather skip.
>
> Hey, it's only money..... It may be the Patterson money depending.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit
> Braselton, Ga.
>
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271048 is a reply to message #271045] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 15:18 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I didn't check it - thanks for the reminder. I'm not clear - they modified the Rules. Is the alcohol no longer mandatory, or did they simply reduce the amount total which has to be refind (and presumably) used?
Anyway, inspection under the coach this afternoon shows the bottom radiator surround frame bent up a bit, and a new rusty scrape on it - somewhere along the line I ran over something which bent it. Enough to push the rock guard into the bottom flue of the radiator, where it eventually wore a pinhole. So, out it comes for evaluation and repair or replacement. I'll be perusing the Maintenance Manual over the next few days. A cursory look indicates I can jack the coach up and crib it, and then the radiator and surround ought to drop out of the bottom leaving the A/C condenser and fan shroud in place. I can support it on jackstands until it's disconnected everywhere, and then lower it with a floor jack. It looks heavier than I can hold up safely by hand. Once I have the surround off the radiator proper, I have a nine pound Weighted Adjustment Tool I can straighten it with. I'll let my guys at the radiator shop pass judgement on the radiator itself, and either repair or replace. I notice Jimmy The K gets a 12% premium for a proper brass one over the aluminum replacement.
I'm gonna ask the shop if it's possible to set another row of flues on the tanks.... the coach gets unhappy going over Monteagle and up 25 to Bean Station, trips it makes reasonably often. Maybeso I can keep it a bit cooler on those grades.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Arrrrgh - chit [message #271074 is a reply to message #271048] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 19:17 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Johnny,
I'm just back from 2 weeks in FL -- without WiFi -- and trying to catch up
on 300+ emails when I saw your note.
IMHO, the best thing to do, right now, to your radiator mount is to buy a
pair of 3" butts (door hinges with removable pins), or pull them out of the
junk box. Move about 2" above the curve from horizontal to vertical on
each side of the radiator mounting surround and mount the hinges, with the
pins horizontal, using your choice of fasteners (self tapping/tap for
machine screws/etc.). Now remove the hinges and, with support under the
radiator surround, CAREFULLY cut the surround in line with the hinge pins.
Now the radiator can be lowered straight down out of the coach. When
re-installed, the butts, with bolts replacing the pins, become "quick
disconnects" to make it trivially easy to R&R the radiator. Look under a
few coaches at the next rally and you're sure to find some with that mod.
Simple plates can be used in place of butts, but that's not as elegant a
solution. :- ) (And you can weld the butt halves in place for more
permanence.)
If you don't want to do that, call me before you go to the trouble of using
any of the removal procedures you've mentioned -- It CAN come out the
top/front.
JWID,
Ken H.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> I didn't check it - thanks for the reminder. I'm not clear - they
> modified the Rules. Is the alcohol no longer mandatory, or did they simply
> reduce
> the amount total which has to be refind (and presumably) used?
> Anyway, inspection under the coach this afternoon shows the bottom
> radiator surround frame bent up a bit, and a new rusty scrape on it -
> somewhere
> along the line I ran over something which bent it. Enough to push the
> rock guard into the bottom flue of the radiator, where it eventually wore a
> pinhole. So, out it comes for evaluation and repair or replacement. I'll
> be perusing the Maintenance Manual over the next few days. A cursory look
> indicates I can jack the coach up and crib it, and then the radiator and
> surround ought to drop out of the bottom leaving the A/C condenser and fan
> shroud in place. I can support it on jackstands until it's disconnected
> everywhere, and then lower it with a floor jack. It looks heavier than I
> can
> hold up safely by hand. Once I have the surround off the radiator proper,
> I have a nine pound Weighted Adjustment Tool I can straighten it with.
> I'll let my guys at the radiator shop pass judgement on the radiator
> itself, and either repair or replace. I notice Jimmy The K gets a 12%
> premium
> for a proper brass one over the aluminum replacement.
> I'm gonna ask the shop if it's possible to set another row of flues on the
> tanks.... the coach gets unhappy going over Monteagle and up 25 to Bean
> Station, trips it makes reasonably often. Maybeso I can keep it a bit
> cooler on those grades.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit
> Braselton, Ga.
>
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my
> dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271078 is a reply to message #271048] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 19:47 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Johnny Bridges wrote on Mon, 02 February 2015 14:18I didn't check it - thanks for the reminder. I'm not clear - they modified the Rules. Is the alcohol no longer mandatory, or did they simply reduce the amount total which has to be refind (and presumably) used?
Anyway, inspection under the coach this afternoon shows the bottom radiator surround frame bent up a bit, and a new rusty scrape on it - somewhere along the line I ran over something which bent it. Enough to push the rock guard into the bottom flue of the radiator, where it eventually wore a pinhole. So, out it comes for evaluation and repair or replacement. I'll be perusing the Maintenance Manual over the next few days. A cursory look indicates I can jack the coach up and crib it, and then the radiator and surround ought to drop out of the bottom leaving the A/C condenser and fan shroud in place. I can support it on jackstands until it's disconnected everywhere, and then lower it with a floor jack. It looks heavier than I can hold up safely by hand. Once I have the surround off the radiator proper, I have a nine pound Weighted Adjustment Tool I can straighten it with. I'll let my guys at the radiator shop pass judgement on the radiator itself, and either repair or replace. I notice Jimmy The K gets a 12% premium for a proper brass one over the aluminum replacement.
I'm gonna ask the shop if it's possible to set another row of flues on the tanks.... the coach gets unhappy going over Monteagle and up 25 to Bean Station, trips it makes reasonably often. Maybeso I can keep it a bit cooler on those grades.
--johnny
If it is only a pinhole that was not caused by corrosion, I would throw a "dog turd" into it or a capfull of black pepper and you will have years of an easy fix. Most people will reject that idea, but it will be successful if the pinhole was caused by penetration rather than a long term deterioration of the radiator. There's simply no reason to spend hundreds of dollars to fix this and no, it won't leave you stranded in BF Iowa.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
[Updated on: Mon, 02 February 2015 19:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271087 is a reply to message #271084] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 21:45 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I would just solder the pin hole in place if it is accessible or remove it and solder it if necessary. The coolent would need draining of course first.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271092 is a reply to message #271045] |
Tue, 03 February 2015 02:42 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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He if this is a 40 year old radiator there is good chance of it falling appart soon
I got a alu radiator that is very light, but the guy who installed it f**ked up the thread for the oilcooler line. There is very little thread so be carefull
A copper one might be a heavier, but stronger solution
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271095 is a reply to message #271045] |
Tue, 03 February 2015 08:56 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
I removed my radiator out the bottom without removing the frame. Remove the bolts from the top of the frame and you can raise the radiator enough to slide the bottom forward and out of the frame. Drop it down and it is out.
Rod's Radiator in Redding,Ca. ordered a new core- (about $400 4 years ago overnight delivery from some place in San Bernardino.
Rod installed the new core in my still good end tanks- I stuck it back in and it's still working fine. Job is not as bad as it looks.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271099 is a reply to message #271045] |
Tue, 03 February 2015 10:36 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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My PO bought an aluminum radiator and had it installed. I had noticed the hinges on the support frame but had no idea what they were for. Glad to see that he hired at least one guy who knew what he was doing.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Arrrrgh - chit [message #271100 is a reply to message #271099] |
Tue, 03 February 2015 10:48 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3181-radiator-replacement.html
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
> My PO bought an aluminum radiator and had it installed. I had noticed the
> hinges on the support frame but had no idea what they were for. Glad to
> see that he hired at least one guy who knew what he was doing.
>
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76
> Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #271111 is a reply to message #271045] |
Tue, 03 February 2015 14:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, guys, the hinges get the nod. I have to pull at least the bottom of the frame to get the dent out of it. I don't want to run it with the dent in, it's at best >close< to the radiator flues and may even be touching the, At that point I can evaluate the leak and decide do we take it out or try some leak stop. A couple of local shops do good work on strange radiators.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #272056 is a reply to message #271045] |
Sun, 15 February 2015 15:50 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I got started removing the radiator today. A PIA, albeit a straightforward PIA. A week of homemade kroil didn't save the upper trans cooler line, I'll cut it back, flare it, and put a new piece in. Hopefully, the oil cooler lines will loosen as did the bottom trans cooler one.
Once out, I'm leaning towards recoring this one. A local shop did Zhookoff's a while back with a more efficient core which I find attractive. Looks to be a couple of fillups less than the aluminum replacement. What I can see of the oil lines look pretty good. They'll get full inspection when the radiator is out. If I find any suspicious spots, I'll do a set of J.R. Slaten's lines.
Keep watching this space - it ought to warm up about Wednesday next.
Patterson ain't looking good at this point.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Arrrrgh - chit [message #272057 is a reply to message #272056] |
Sun, 15 February 2015 15:54 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
I would suggest you consider removing the lines to and from the oil cooler out and flexing them and inspect them when flexed. They
may look great sitting in place but a bit of bending may result in a different result.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Bridges
I got started removing the radiator today. A PIA, albeit a straightforward PIA. A week of homemade kroil didn't save the upper
trans cooler line, I'll cut it back, flare it, and put a new piece in. Hopefully, the oil cooler lines will loosen as did the
bottom trans cooler one.
Once out, I'm leaning towards recoring this one. A local shop did Zhookoff's a while back with a more efficient core which I find
attractive. Looks to be a couple of fillups less than the aluminum replacement. What I can see of the oil lines look pretty good.
They'll get full inspection when the radiator is out. If I find any suspicious spots, I'll do a set of J.R. Slaten's lines. Keep
watching this space - it ought to warm up about Wednesday next. Patterson ain't looking good at this point.
--johnny
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #272082 is a reply to message #271045] |
Mon, 16 February 2015 05:06 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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> radiator that is used in current heavy duty trucks
I'm pretty sure JimB has mentioned that, too.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #272130 is a reply to message #272082] |
Mon, 16 February 2015 17:34 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Everybody,
When you want to remove the flare fittings (and many other threaded fasteners), TIGHTEN them first. Just a tweak, not even a twelfth of a turn, and then loosen and remove them. Works every time the threads are not already stripped, prevents them from galling upon removal, and may even salvage some buggered threads.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #272191 is a reply to message #271045] |
Tue, 17 February 2015 18:41 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Update -
Last evening, the drop to my house from the road caught a limb in the ice, and parted the neutral. Not the first time this has happened. Jackson EMC (local utility) says maybe tomorrow they send a truck and fix it. The Public Service Commission will be getting my complain letter, complete with times, and responses from the EMC. I'd take the limb off, but I fear I'd kill one of the conductors, and I still have 220V which runs the furnace. If I still had my gaffs and belt I'd go up and use an auto jumper to temp the break, which is at the pole. I hadda give them back when I got out of the AF though.
What this leads up to is, "Gee, I'll just fire up the RV genset and run the icebox and a couple lights off it. No such luck, the Junkerac said it ain't gonna play in the cold. It will be leaving the coach when the weather gets warm, in favor of the Ken Henderson Troy-Bilt mod or equal. I've not found a carb for the Yamaha, nor an oil level switch for the little Ryobi, so I have a 2300 outside the window which I borrowed from a neighbor. Icebox is cold, a couple of drop lights to see by, internet is working, and Jackson EMC can go pack sand.
The Generac is their variable speed varible frequency 3.6KW RV unit. Fits easily in a 23' coach, it's quite small. It currently has ignition problems, it wants to arc outside the plug boot to the housing about four sparks, the fifth one fires and it PUTTs, then goes back to arcing. Likely a new plug wire would heal it for the nonce. It has a new starter last year. I have most of the service information on it, and Ken H knows this model all too well. It's available VERY reasonably. If I get inspired and fix it, $200 demonstrated working and taking load as it should. Guarantee expires at the end of my driveway.
When it's working, the engine speed varies with load, and it develops AC in the 55 - 65Hz range. Spins the AC nicely, runs the fridge and microwave, runs the water heater. Electric clocks are not recommended.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Arrrrgh - chit [message #272197 is a reply to message #271045] |
Tue, 17 February 2015 19:09 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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> my gaffs and belt
There's a set on CL around here, Johnny. Want 'em? The utility guys always get so pissy when they're told where the problem is. Try digging up the secondary yourself if you really want to stir them up. Don't ask me how I know this.
We've had a pretty good ice storm here .5-.75 inches. Still have power. Forecast low is 7 for Thursday with wind 16 to 20 mph. Along the Carolina coast, that kind of temp causes property damage from burst water lines and pump houses even if they're winterized.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
[Updated on: Tue, 17 February 2015 19:17] Report message to a moderator |
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