Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Weight of Onan Motor
| Weight of Onan Motor [message #269680] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 16:07  |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
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I am resurrecting an Onan generator out of a 1973 motor home. After removing a couple of the covers I have discovered that mice have been nesting through out the unit. I have used compressed air but I can't get to every nook and cranny that might have nesting material. I am about to disconnect the motor from the armature housing and was wondering if anyone knew just how much the motor weights. Would I need the help of an engine hoist or would I be able to wrestle it around by myself? Is there a coupling that connects the motor drive to the armature shaft?
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: Weight of Onan Motor [message #269681 is a reply to message #269680] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 16:10  |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
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I should add that the generator has not been started for over 20 years. I have removed the heads and cleaned off the carbon deposits from pistons as well as the heads.
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269692 is a reply to message #269683] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 18:28 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
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Thanks Peer, but I am looking at what the weight of the motor (casting with
the pistons, etc) separate from the winding in the armature.
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Peer Oliver Schmidt GMC <
posde@theinternet.de> wrote:
> Does http://gmcmotorhome.info/generator.html#weight help?
>
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
>
> '76a Eleganza II, VA
>
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269695 is a reply to message #269692] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 19:26 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Bruce,
Seems to me that considering the engine and the alternator to each weigh
half the total -- call it 200# as a guess -- would tell you not to try to
manhandle either without mechanical assistance. Since the engine is
equipped with a centrally located tapped hole for a lifting eye, that's the
way to get it out of the coach -- I've used an engine hoist. Then I'd set
the engine on a stable platform of some sort and use a floor jack (or
better, if available, a transmission jack) under the alternator. Without
having tried it, I feel certain I could safely handle either component.
JWID,
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> Thanks Peer, but I am looking at what the weight of the motor (casting with
> the pistons, etc) separate from the winding in the armature.
>
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Weight of Onan Motor [message #269697 is a reply to message #269680] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 19:43 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
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Engine hoist works great. Interestingly, I have seen an early 73 that did not have the threaded hole in the intake manifold for lifting. I understand that might have been a later feature.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: Weight of Onan Motor [message #269703 is a reply to message #269697] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 20:26 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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With the generator removed (armature and field coil) you can move the engine, but I doubt you could carry it. I'm in good shape and it was all I could do to get one from the floor onto a cart about 6" high, and I never actually picked the whole thing off the floor. I wouldn't recommend it, especially with an engine you are trying to resurrect. To much danger to both you and the engine.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269705 is a reply to message #269697] |
Wed, 14 January 2015 20:28 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Steve,
You are correct. There is no threaded hole for a lifting ring.
I was hoping not to have to use the hoist. I will have to go get it out of
storage, break it down, haul to the house, and set it up.
I have an aluminum frame with wheels that I have the Onan exterior housing
bolted to. Next time I work on the Onan I will block up the armature and
use an engine hoist to support the engine while I remove the engine from
the armature.
Once the Onan is assembled and running I plan to use it as a back generator
for the house. I had originally built the aluminum frame for an engine
carrier, but somehow the Onan got placed on it instead and it fit perfectly
as if it was intended for the Onan. I will have to put a bit of weight on
the back end of the carrier as when the Onan is pulled out, it doesn't tilt
forward but it is close. Battery and gas tank should be enough weight.
Someday I might even post some pictures.
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Steve Adams wrote:
> Engine hoist works great. Interestingly, I have seen an early 73 that did
> not have the threaded hole in the intake manifold for lifting. I understand
> that might have been a later feature.
> --
> 1978 GMC Royal
> Eastern Pennslyvania
> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
> 1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
> 1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: Weight of Onan Motor [message #269722 is a reply to message #269680] |
Thu, 15 January 2015 05:50 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
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I just put my Onan in my '73. I hoisted the Onan with an engine hoist and heavy duty straps (the whole thing weighs about 250#) and placed it on a dolly made of a wheel dolly and a milk crate (robust one) on a 2" board. with the hoist still connected just as a back-up if things got sideways, I rolled the dolly next to the coach, lowered the rear until it was level with the Onan and shoved it in. That air suspension comes in handy!
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: Weight of Onan Motor [message #269739 is a reply to message #269722] |
Thu, 15 January 2015 10:51 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Luvn737s wrote on Thu, 15 January 2015 05:50I just put my Onan in my '73. I hoisted the Onan with an engine hoist and heavy duty straps (the whole thing weighs about 250#) and placed it on a dolly made of a wheel dolly and a milk crate (robust one) on a 2" board. with the hoist still connected just as a back-up if things got sideways, I rolled the dolly next to the coach, lowered the rear until it was level with the Onan and shoved it in. That air suspension comes in handy!
Nope - Per Onan it's 405#.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269806 is a reply to message #269680] |
Fri, 16 January 2015 18:50 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Jan 14, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> Is there a coupling that connects the motor drive to the armature shaft?
Hi Bruce,
The "coupling" between the motor and the armature consists of a male taper on the engine mated with a female taper in the armature and a very long socket-head bolt holding the two together.
I would highly recommend that you NOT try to separate them unless there's an absolutely stellar reason to do so - and the only reason I can think of (other than an engine overhaul) would be to replace the crankshaft oil seal if it were in very bad shape.
My unit of measure for extremely tight fasteners is "light year-megatons". I do not know what the equivalent would be to describe how tightly the armature and shaft are held together by that taper but IMO we're talking similar orders of magnitude. There's no straightforward way to get a puller on the armature; about all you can do is try an "inertial disassembly" by inserting a special tie-bolt through the armature into the crank and wailing on it in order to drive the engine away from the armature. I made a special adapter that would allow the use of a slide hammer and it still took so much force that I became worried about damaging something with the axial thrust. I would never attempt such a disassembly unless it is absolutely unavoidable.
Regarding the weight: the field assembly weighs about 85 pounds and the bell housing about 10. I do not have an exact armature weight but would guesstimate it to be 25-30 lbs.
--Jim "saving the lives of Onans...one unit at a time" Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: Weight of Onan Motor [message #269814 is a reply to message #269680] |
Fri, 16 January 2015 20:05 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
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Special Greetings to Jim Miller!
Happy to see you on the net. Jim saved my Onan when I was a new GMC owner. I will always be grateful for his assistance and the education I received. I hope to be able to pay it forward.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269815 is a reply to message #269806] |
Fri, 16 January 2015 20:02 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Thank you for your response. The reason to separate the motor from the
armature is for the past 20 years mice have been bedding in the generator.
Every time I take a guard off I find more nesting material. I have blown
out the armature but I can see some remnants of material that won't come
out.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> On Jan 14, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
>
>> Is there a coupling that connects the motor drive to the armature shaft?
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> The "coupling" between the motor and the armature consists of a male taper
> on the engine mated with a female taper in the armature and a very long
> socket-head bolt holding the two together.
>
> I would highly recommend that you NOT try to separate them unless there's
> an absolutely stellar reason to do so - and the only reason I can think of
> (other than an engine overhaul) would be to replace the crankshaft oil seal
> if it were in very bad shape.
>
> My unit of measure for extremely tight fasteners is "light year-megatons".
> I do not know what the equivalent would be to describe how tightly the
> armature and shaft are held together by that taper but IMO we're talking
> similar orders of magnitude. There's no straightforward way to get a
> puller on the armature; about all you can do is try an "inertial
> disassembly" by inserting a special tie-bolt through the armature into the
> crank and wailing on it in order to drive the engine away from the
> armature. I made a special adapter that would allow the use of a slide
> hammer and it still took so much force that I became worried about damaging
> something with the axial thrust. I would never attempt such a disassembly
> unless it is absolutely unavoidable.
>
> Regarding the weight: the field assembly weighs about 85 pounds and the
> bell housing about 10. I do not have an exact armature weight but would
> guesstimate it to be 25-30 lbs.
>
> --Jim "saving the lives of Onans...one unit at a time" Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269845 is a reply to message #269815] |
Sat, 17 January 2015 08:17 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Jan 16, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> The reason to separate the motor from the armature is for the past 20 years mice have been bedding in the generator.
> Every time I take a guard off I find more nesting material. I have blown out the armature but I can see some remnants of material that won't come out.
Hi Bruce,
Just to make sure we are using consistent terminology here: the armature is the rotating component of the generator. The field is the large, heavy rectangular component of the generator that does not rotate (and it also has the coil/control board and fuel pump bolted to it). The bell housing is the aluminum casting on the very back of the generator that holds the brushes, bridge rectifier and compounding reactor.
It is a relatively simple job to remove bell housing and field assembly and doing so will give you more than ample access for your clean-up process. You should NOT have to separate the armature from the engine crankshaft in order to clean up the unit.
Be sure to follow the procedure in the service manual when you remove the bell housing as it is relatively easy to break the carbon brushes as well as damage the two wires that go from the bridge rectifier to the field windings.
If you want to see some detailed pictures of the generator section then check my photo gallery at:
http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/onanfieldassyrepair
Also be very careful not to drop the field against the armature as you pull it off the unit; the field is very heavy and the armature has sharp edges protruding from it. Both assemblies have coils made of aluminum wire and any damage to those coils will lead to problems sooner or later.
--Jim "saving the lives of Onans...one unit at a time" Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269849 is a reply to message #269845] |
Sat, 17 January 2015 09:33 |
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Great advice and information. Photos helpful, too.
Byron Songer
Kissimmee, FL (until April)
On 2015-01-17 09:17, Jim Miller wrote:
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
>
>> The reason to separate the motor from the armature is for the past 20
>> years mice have been bedding in the generator.
>> Every time I take a guard off I find more nesting material. I have
>> blown out the armature but I can see some remnants of material that
>> won't come out.
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Just to make sure we are using consistent terminology here: the
> armature is the rotating component of the generator. The field is the
> large, heavy rectangular component of the generator that does not
> rotate (and it also has the coil/control board and fuel pump bolted to
> it). The bell housing is the aluminum casting on the very back of the
> generator that holds the brushes, bridge rectifier and compounding
> reactor.
>
> It is a relatively simple job to remove bell housing and field
> assembly and doing so will give you more than ample access for your
> clean-up process. You should NOT have to separate the armature from
> the engine crankshaft in order to clean up the unit.
>
> Be sure to follow the procedure in the service manual when you remove
> the bell housing as it is relatively easy to break the carbon brushes
> as well as damage the two wires that go from the bridge rectifier to
> the field windings.
>
> If you want to see some detailed pictures of the generator section
> then check my photo gallery at:
>
> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/onanfieldassyrepair
>
> Also be very careful not to drop the field against the armature as you
> pull it off the unit; the field is very heavy and the armature has
> sharp edges protruding from it. Both assemblies have coils made of
> aluminum wire and any damage to those coils will lead to problems
> sooner or later.
>
> --Jim "saving the lives of Onans...one unit at a time" Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269899 is a reply to message #269849] |
Sat, 17 January 2015 20:18 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Thanks again Jim,
Separated the two wires from the bridge rectifier so I could pull the field
housing off. I did as you suggested and found that the motor fins on the
inner side was packed with mouse nesting. I will check the components with
the AC Generator Maintenance procedure, clean paint and than reassemble.
Maybe by next week-end I can try to start this generator up.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 8:33 AM, wrote:
> Great advice and information. Photos helpful, too.
>
> Byron Songer
> Kissimmee, FL (until April)
>
>
> On 2015-01-17 09:17, Jim Miller wrote:
>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
>>
>> The reason to separate the motor from the armature is for the past 20
>>> years mice have been bedding in the generator.
>>> Every time I take a guard off I find more nesting material. I have
>>> blown out the armature but I can see some remnants of material that won't
>>> come out.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> Just to make sure we are using consistent terminology here: the
>> armature is the rotating component of the generator. The field is the
>> large, heavy rectangular component of the generator that does not
>> rotate (and it also has the coil/control board and fuel pump bolted to
>> it). The bell housing is the aluminum casting on the very back of the
>> generator that holds the brushes, bridge rectifier and compounding
>> reactor.
>>
>> It is a relatively simple job to remove bell housing and field
>> assembly and doing so will give you more than ample access for your
>> clean-up process. You should NOT have to separate the armature from
>> the engine crankshaft in order to clean up the unit.
>>
>> Be sure to follow the procedure in the service manual when you remove
>> the bell housing as it is relatively easy to break the carbon brushes
>> as well as damage the two wires that go from the bridge rectifier to
>> the field windings.
>>
>> If you want to see some detailed pictures of the generator section
>> then check my photo gallery at:
>>
>> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/onanfieldassyrepair
>>
>> Also be very careful not to drop the field against the armature as you
>> pull it off the unit; the field is very heavy and the armature has
>> sharp edges protruding from it. Both assemblies have coils made of
>> aluminum wire and any damage to those coils will lead to problems
>> sooner or later.
>>
>> --Jim "saving the lives of Onans...one unit at a time" Miller
>> 1977 Eleganza II
>> 1977 Royale
>> Hamilton, OH
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Weight of Onan Motor [message #269915 is a reply to message #269899] |
Sun, 18 January 2015 04:33 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Can you send a pix of the k1 start relay? It is under the board .. Need to
see all the terminals
Erf
On Saturday, January 17, 2015, Bruce Hart wrote:
> Thanks again Jim,
> Separated the two wires from the bridge rectifier so I could pull the field
> housing off. I did as you suggested and found that the motor fins on the
> inner side was packed with mouse nesting. I will check the components with
> the AC Generator Maintenance procedure, clean paint and than reassemble.
> Maybe by next week-end I can try to start this generator up.
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 8:33 AM, > wrote:
>
>> Great advice and information. Photos helpful, too.
>>
>> Byron Songer
>> Kissimmee, FL (until April)
>>
>>
>> On 2015-01-17 09:17, Jim Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
>>>
>>> The reason to separate the motor from the armature is for the past 20
>>>> years mice have been bedding in the generator.
>>>> Every time I take a guard off I find more nesting material. I have
>>>> blown out the armature but I can see some remnants of material that
> won't
>>>> come out.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>
>>> Just to make sure we are using consistent terminology here: the
>>> armature is the rotating component of the generator. The field is the
>>> large, heavy rectangular component of the generator that does not
>>> rotate (and it also has the coil/control board and fuel pump bolted to
>>> it). The bell housing is the aluminum casting on the very back of the
>>> generator that holds the brushes, bridge rectifier and compounding
>>> reactor.
>>>
>>> It is a relatively simple job to remove bell housing and field
>>> assembly and doing so will give you more than ample access for your
>>> clean-up process. You should NOT have to separate the armature from
>>> the engine crankshaft in order to clean up the unit.
>>>
>>> Be sure to follow the procedure in the service manual when you remove
>>> the bell housing as it is relatively easy to break the carbon brushes
>>> as well as damage the two wires that go from the bridge rectifier to
>>> the field windings.
>>>
>>> If you want to see some detailed pictures of the generator section
>>> then check my photo gallery at:
>>>
>>> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/onanfieldassyrepair
>>>
>>> Also be very careful not to drop the field against the armature as you
>>> pull it off the unit; the field is very heavy and the armature has
>>> sharp edges protruding from it. Both assemblies have coils made of
>>> aluminum wire and any damage to those coils will lead to problems
>>> sooner or later.
>>>
>>> --Jim "saving the lives of Onans...one unit at a time" Miller
>>> 1977 Eleganza II
>>> 1977 Royale
>>> Hamilton, OH
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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