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Headers? [message #269057]

Tue, 06 January 2015 20:09

quadracerx1

Messages: 207
Registered: April 2013
Location: Puyallup, Washington

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Hi..

Well finally got the stock manifolds off, broken bolts and both manifolds have cracks. So do I go with good used manifolds? Or headers?

Anyone have headers for sale other than Applied or the others?

Thanks,

Steve

75 26' GMC Glenbrook Puyallup, Washington

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Re: Headers? [message #269058 is a reply to message #269057]

Tue, 06 January 2015 20:12

bwevers

Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose

Karma: 5

Senior Member

My vote would be for headers.
Used manifolds are usually cracked.

Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States 1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon 455 F Block, G heads San Jose

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Re: Headers? [message #269061 is a reply to message #269057]

Tue, 06 January 2015 20:43

Steve

Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa

Karma: 1

Senior Member

It was strongly suggested to me by Ken Frey to go with the headers. Ken is a long time GMC repair center and really knows these coaches well. Manifolds can and will crack again. The right manifold seems to have more problems.

I am sure there are many still running manifolds. Not sure what the ratio is or what it might look like in another ten years? Headers can rust out, however I have had the same st of headers on my pick-up for over 20 years, and they were not coated. The coated headers are even better.

1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black

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Re: Headers? [message #269064 is a reply to message #269057]

Tue, 06 January 2015 21:15

kerry pinkerton

Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al

Karma: 15

Senior Member

quadracerx1 wrote on Tue, 06 January 2015 20:09

...Anyone have headers for sale other than Applied or the others?

Seems like I heard that Manny was making headers that would allow you to pull the governor without pulling the header. I'm not 100% positive but it would be worth a call or perhaps someone else will know for sure.

Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L

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Re: Headers? [message #269067 is a reply to message #269064]

Tue, 06 January 2015 21:41

Scott Nutter

Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Headers. I had a muffler shop in San Diego install mine about 10 years ago with a 3" system with a Flowmaster muffler. They are the thorley ceramics. My Palm Beach loves them. Sounds good from the outside, and very quite on the inside. It does improve horsepower and mileage, but I don't know how much.

Scott Nutter 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI Houston, Texas

[Updated on: Tue, 06 January 2015 22:03]

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269069 is a reply to message #269067]

Tue, 06 January 2015 22:26

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

Here's some hard data:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p40002-manifolds-vs-headers-455-olds.html

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Nutter

Headers. I had a muffler shop in San Diego install mine about 10 years ago with a 3" cat back system with a Flowmaster muffler. They
are the Thorley ceramics. My Palm Beach loves them. Sounds good from the outside, and very quite on the inside. It does improve
horsepower and mileage, but I don't know how much.

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269092 is a reply to message #269069]

Wed, 07 January 2015 07:55

Jim at the Co-op

Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida

Karma: 2

Senior Member

The chart is kinda neat info and yea, manifolds are that bad at the lower
RPM's we run but to be honest, I do not say headers are going to do
anything performance wise. The fact that if you keep the bolts tight the
gaskets will not blow out and the chances of that condition to stay is so
much better with headers that's the reason to do it. You wnna touch
something once and be done with it to worry about the other fiftymillion
things! A new exh. system with new headers and you are done...

Jim Bounds
--------------------

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Robert Mueller
wrote:

> G'day,
>
> Here's some hard data:
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p40002-manifolds-vs-headers-455-olds.html
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Nutter
>
> Headers. I had a muffler shop in San Diego install mine about 10 years ago
> with a 3" cat back system with a Flowmaster muffler. They
> are the Thorley ceramics. My Palm Beach loves them. Sounds good from the
> outside, and very quite on the inside. It does improve
> horsepower and mileage, but I don't know how much.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269108 is a reply to message #269092]

Wed, 07 January 2015 09:39

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

Jim at the Co-op wrote on Wed, 07 January 2015 07:55

The chart is kinda neat info and yea, manifolds are that bad at the lower
RPM's we run but to be honest, I do not say headers are going to do
anything performance wise. The fact that if you keep the bolts tight the
gaskets will not blow out and the chances of that condition to stay is so
much better with headers that's the reason to do it. You wnna touch
something once and be done with it to worry about the other fiftymillion
things! A new exh. system with new headers and you are done...

Jim Bounds
--------------------

Ah, the master speaks.
Jim did not say it in his post but I'll bet he also has them for sale.
So there you go. Applied GMC (Jim K) or GMC-Coop (Jim B).

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269122 is a reply to message #269108]

Wed, 07 January 2015 11:46

Harry

Messages: 1888
Registered: October 2007
Location: Victoria, BC CANADA

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Check with Manny to see if he has the new style header available.
Probably a better price too.

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Re: Headers? [message #269125 is a reply to message #269057]

Wed, 07 January 2015 12:00

Cadillackeeper

Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale

Karma: 1

Senior Member

I think young Jeff at Alex Sirum has them as well.

77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269135 is a reply to message #269125]

Wed, 07 January 2015 14:39

Jim at the Co-op

Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida

Karma: 2

Senior Member

I do not sell the headers, chk with Jim K. or maybe Manny's - not up to
speed on them. Cost is whatever it is, at least they work and you can get
a set.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 1:00 PM, anthony ezzo wrote:

> I think young Jeff at Alex Sirum has them as well.
> --
> 77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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Re: Headers? [message #269142 is a reply to message #269057]

Wed, 07 January 2015 15:28

djeffers

Messages: 219
Registered: June 2004

Karma: 2

Senior Member

Our vote is to get headers.

The nice thing about headers is that they are weldable IF they crack and are not ceramic coated or something similar; I've seldom had to weld a header and I've had/built several.

Ceramic coating or similar is nice to reduce heat on a well made header. Ask the man that owns a set.

The nice curves in the header tubing reduce the pumping losses of the engine pushing the gases out; gives back a little torque and few horsepower.

The curves and individual pipes of steel tube headers absorb the expansion and contraction from the high temperature changes much better than cast iron manifolds. The longer the cast iron manifold, the more likely it is to crack.

Headers can be tuned like a pipe organ to help extract the gases.

Computer runs on Engine Analyzer Pro for our Cadillac 507 indicate that for a header tuned for torque at 2500 rpm, the speed we often cruise at:

If tuned for the first pulse: 88.3 inches long x 1.50 inch OD tubing from the exhaust valve to the header collector; too, too long.

And if tuned for the second pulse: 42.4 inches long x 1.50" OD to the collector. Doable but is still a lot of tubing to radiate heat and take up a lot of room.

The benefit of truly tuned headers at 2500 rpm is very small, and probably only for those that absolutely have to have tuned headers on their motorhome.

The main thing is to get a well-made steel tube header. They all seem to have nice curves.

The 500 Cad engine cracks exhaust manifolds. Headers are definitely somewhere in the future for us; especially when/if we run out of manifolds.

Don and Susan Jeffers
78 Eleganza II 507 Cadillac

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Re: Headers? [message #269146 is a reply to message #269057]

Wed, 07 January 2015 17:07

quadracerx1

Messages: 207
Registered: April 2013
Location: Puyallup, Washington

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Just noticed that Jim K at Applied has Stainless Steel Headers? For not a lot more than the Doug Thorley brand...

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Steve

75 26' GMC Glenbrook Puyallup, Washington

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269157 is a reply to message #269092]

Wed, 07 January 2015 18:01

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Jim,

YOU never made any claims that headers would enhance performance because you and Drew Koba saw the dyno runs and new the FACTS!

I'm sorry if I piss anyone off but I got sick and tired of people making all kinds of statements about how changing to headers made
a big difference in performance; and as anyone can see from the data that's BS. Someone even made the statement that dyno test data
was irrelevant!

Having said that if one installed your / Drew's Kryptonite cams AND headers that would be a different story!

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Bounds

The chart is kinda neat info and yea, manifolds are that bad at the lower
RPM's we run but to be honest, I do not say headers are going to do
anything performance wise. The fact that if you keep the bolts tight the
gaskets will not blow out and the chances of that condition to stay is so
much better with headers that's the reason to do it. You wnna touch
something once and be done with it to worry about the other fiftymillion
things! A new exh. system with new headers and you are done...

Jim Bounds

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269178 is a reply to message #269157]

Wed, 07 January 2015 22:28

Harry

Messages: 1888
Registered: October 2007
Location: Victoria, BC CANADA

Karma: 3

Senior Member

What ever became of Jardine Headers.
I have a Jardine decal on my GMC.

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269181 is a reply to message #269178]

Wed, 07 January 2015 23:39

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

David,

A Google search provided this:

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,18843.0.html

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of David H. Jarvis
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 3:29 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Headers?

What ever became of Jardine Headers.
I have a Jardine decal on my GMC.
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269199 is a reply to message #269157]

Thu, 08 January 2015 08:01

Jim Galbavy

Messages: 1443
Registered: August 2007

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Rob,

I've been running Drew's Kryptonite cam and headers for the past 12+ years
and have no complaints. Drew's 455 is strong and I've had no performance
problems to date. Good reliable flat tappet motor.

jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL

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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269200 is a reply to message #269181]

Thu, 08 January 2015 08:09

Dolph Santorine

Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV

Karma: -41

Senior Member

Rob:

Thanks for sharing. What a great story!

Dolph

> On Jan 8, 2015, at 12:39 AM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> David,
>
> A Google search provided this:
>
> http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,18843.0.html
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of David H. Jarvis
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 3:29 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Headers?
>
> What ever became of Jardine Headers.
> I have a Jardine decal on my GMC.
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Headers? [message #269226 is a reply to message #269200]

Thu, 08 January 2015 11:58

Harry

Messages: 1888
Registered: October 2007
Location: Victoria, BC CANADA

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Rob;
Thank you for the history behind Jardine. Quite a story there.
Reading that, I saw a few other makers of headers that are long gone.
I have a "Hooker Hedders" decal on my tool box. "The Purple Hornies".
DJ

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Re: Headers? [message #269233 is a reply to message #269057]

Thu, 08 January 2015 13:59

Chris Tyler

Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Purple hornies were originally by Cyclone exhaust, who also made headers.
I still have a set, the purple paint is long gone though

Anybody looked at Sanderson headers? They used to make cast headers but have now gone to tube type and I remember seeing an olds app when I was looking for headers for my Lincoln. No idea if they would fit.

My coach has a set of coated dougs ~ 10 yrs old. some surface rust but holding up. Will need gaskets soon. Have had good luck with copper and locking studs recently.

We used to change out a large number of BB chevy manifolds on RVs. We would send them out to be furnace brazed and resurfaced. Kept 2 sets in stock for exchange. One of the suppliers might want to look into it.

Most people we put headers on for were not happy with them, either the increased noise or leaks or the lack of improvement in milage or performance. Very few wanted to retune/rejet the engine to take advantage

The Low Buck way we used to repair: drill out the ends of the crack, groove it with an angle grinder. Then, retard the timing and run the engine till the manifolds glowed, then arc weld it with a nickel rod. Often worked if you could get to the crack, and worked better on Mopars that usually cracked at the top curve

76 Glenbrook

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