| [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268734] |
Fri, 02 January 2015 20:01  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Perhaps some of you have forgotten the idea of adapting electric fan
clutches to the GMC. I haven't -- especially since I think I'm needing a
replacement on my Cad500. Here's the reply to my query to Wagner:
"Thanks for your interest in Warner Electric fan clutches. Unfortunately,
our fan clutches are designed to fit Cummins mid-range diesel engines and
it would be almost impossible to make them fit on automobile engines. At
this time, we have no plans to design fan clutches for any GM products."
But they're not the only fish in the pond (even excluding junk yards). :-)
Any help or good ideas appreciated.
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268742 is a reply to message #268734] |
Fri, 02 January 2015 21:15  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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Two different things. Electric fans vs electrically or electronically controled belt driven mechanical fan clutch .
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268743 is a reply to message #268742] |
Fri, 02 January 2015 21:37 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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[quote title=JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 02 January 2015 21:15]Two different things. Electric fans vs electrically or electronically controled belt driven mechanical fan clutch . [/quote
Oops
Per Roseanne Rosannadanna "never mind"
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268745 is a reply to message #268734] |
Fri, 02 January 2015 22:18 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
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Ken,
My DIL's 2009 Ford Explorer has an electrically-actuated fan clutch that, in theory, does exactly what you're looking for a fan clutch to do. Her car has a belt-driven fan that engages when actuated by the PCM. It looks pretty much like the GMC's fan clutch except for the electrical connector on it.
Maybe someone knows if GM or Chrysler also uses a similar setup on late model rear-drive vehicles. I would think that if you could find an electrically controlled fan clutch that would bolt onto the GMC's water pump the rest (fan, controlling, etc) would be easy.
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268748 is a reply to message #268734] |
Fri, 02 January 2015 22:39 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Ken:
Some Late model GM trucks use ECM Controlled Fan Clutches. Sorry I don't know exactly which ones and what Applications, but you can survey them.
They don't have the massive fans we have so Im also not sure they are heavy duty enough. They open the silicone valves and ports in the clutch electrically instead of the bimetal springs. Not electromagneticly like the AC compressor clutch. I hope they do not slip too much to move enough air.
If I find some exact applications I'll let you know as soon as possible.
Happy New Year to Everyone.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268749 is a reply to message #268734] |
Fri, 02 January 2015 23:21 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Try a Haden 3201(2)
Listed to fit:
06-09 GM midsize Blazer Sonoma Etc.
The catalog shows the same electronic clutch for 4.2 5.3 and 6.0 liter engines.
I suspect they are threaded onto the pump so you would likely have to machine an adaptor. No problem really.
Page 96 of the Hayden Catalog. I'll send a link in a new post. (I'm on my phone)
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268751 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 00:36 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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It looks to me that the Hayden 3201 is a heavy or severe duty electronic fan clutch and you can get it at a lot of places.
The (2) is a note that there is a part number change to 3200 if stock is sold.
These look like a pretty good choice to start your project. You'll have do a little research to find the operational strategy, because it looks like there are 4 or more wires going into that clutch.
I'm looking forward to the results of your work.
Best regards.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268754 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 05:05 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Here is some more info for you.
GMC Envoy/ Chevy Trailblazer
Also Fits: Olsmobile Bravada, Buick Ranier, Isuzu Ascender, & Sabb Vehicles
GM part numbers 15293048, 25790869, 15192191
Dorman # 622-001 Electronic Fan Clutch
Some of the wires are feedback and sensor wires for the On Board Diagnostics
A shop manual and wiring diagram for those models will help. Some dealers will let you read the book at their counter Use your smartphone to photograph appropriate pages.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268760 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 07:40 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
Karma: 0
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I've replaced the fan clutch in my trailblazer several times. GM used it on the trailblazers up until 2009 when they switched to a normal fan clutch. My 2003 vintage had a habit of chewing through the wires near the connector and shorting out. I managed to repair one of them and its worked for the last 50k miles.
If I remember correctly, the clutch has 4 wires: 5v power, ground, pwm signal, and rpm feedback. The ecu watches engine coolant and oil temp as well as tranny temp. The fan ramps up per a table depending on those temps. It has a minimum and maximum speed controlled by the ecu. It also shuts off under heavy acceleration at about 4500 rpm. The ecu will throw a code if it detects open or shorted wires or if the fan speed is out of range.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268762 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 07:53 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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SLIGHTLY off topic Ken but I have installed John Beirski's new fan and a new standard duty clutch and am amazed by the reduction in sound. I can actually hear the blower on my aftermarket oil cooler now and the 'roar' when it comes on is much less than previously.
You can see/hear it down at LazyDays.
John recommended the heavy duty clutch but I was concerned it would be too much with the extra cooling of my aluminum radiator.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268763 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 07:57 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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>John Beirski's new fan
Got a link/part#, Kerry?
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268765 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 08:41 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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So i'm guesding the ECM control is 'counts' as with the IAC to control valve position. Would need to build a 'count genneràtor simulator box' to control it. On the IAC, ECM knows valve position by reading counts back to ECM as you can read them on scan tool. Not sure if the clutch sends that back or uses the fan speed as feedback only. Interesting. I would think that if a 1 ton truck or Duramax used one it might be sized for our heavy application. Anyone know?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268767 is a reply to message #268760] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 08:44 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jerrod,
Now that's depressing! I hadn't intended to get into controller
development beyond something like a temperature controlled relay! And I
was counting on never thinking about it again. :-(
Still worth looking at in view of your 50K success though, I guess.
Ken H.
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:40 AM, jerrod winter wrote:
> I've replaced the fan clutch in my trailblazer several times. GM used it
> on the trailblazers up until 2009 when they switched to a normal fan clutch.
> My 2003 vintage had a habit of chewing through the wires near the
> connector and shorting out. I managed to repair one of them and its worked
> for the
> last 50k miles.
>
> If I remember correctly, the clutch has 4 wires: 5v power, ground, pwm
> signal, and rpm feedback. The ecu watches engine coolant and oil temp as
> well
> as tranny temp. The fan ramps up per a table depending on those temps.
> It has a minimum and maximum speed controlled by the ecu. It also shuts off
> under heavy acceleration at about 4500 rpm. The ecu will throw a code if
> it detects open or shorted wires or if the fan speed is out of range.
> --
> Jerrod Winter
> 1977 Palm Beach
> Green Jelly Bean
> Twin Cities, Minnesota
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268771 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 09:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I think the ECM or some other control setup would start the fan fairly gently, as our viscous clutches do. I'd worry about clamping the coach fan up to the pump shaft all at once - would not this shock load the daylights out of the shaft and bearings? Would this maybe lead to failure of either early? Maybe some of the automotive engineering types can comment on my concern.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fan Clutches [message #268776 is a reply to message #268734] |
Sat, 03 January 2015 10:33 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Depressing but exciting. You could have full auto opperation with manual override. You could engage in long grades up or down to aid engine braking. This would not be the type as on heavy trucks that has a hard lock up with instant engagement. For now the Bwersi fan with the thermal clutch of your liking is the way to go. If the electric cluth/controler comes to be, that can replace the thermal viscous clutch in the future.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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