OK, the starter on the '78 403 Eleganza has been intermittent the past year, and so of course i've tightened all battery connections, and when i went to tighten the nut on the starter's solenoid, damn! the bakelite cracked and the solenoid fell apart. Well, this starter has given about 10 years of service, so maybe time to replace anyway, ha ha (the whole thing? or just the solenoid?). I have a un-used Delco-Remy starter that i bought for the '76 455 Birchhaven about 10 years ago (to have a spare onboard when going deep down into Mexico). never used it! Its been sitting in semi-dry storage and looks good to go. (Looking at the "GMC Parts Exchange" from GMCMHI, it appears that starters for 455s can work in 403s and vice versa, correct?)
When i turn the gear inside by hand (on this 10 year old "new" one), it seems a bit more stiff than the one i just pulled out, and i'm wondering; should i spray some lubricant in there? What kind?
Lastly, i had a nightmare scenario back in '03 when a shop (that shall go nameless) put a starter in the Birchhaven and it stripped the receiving gear on the coach.. got to be a bit costly.. Don't want to make that mistake myself! Any tips/tricks on how to get it to line up, or should it be obvious?
Lastly, as an interesting parting shot; a rather rough start last week...seemed to be stuck... just kept revving up, and before i could get it under control, i heard a big alternator belt squeal, and sure enough, the alternator's dead. Gotta see if this 105 amp will truly be covered by AutoZone lifetime warranty (and the old starter as well, for that matter!)
Any tips and tricks and caveats appreciated! Cheers!
Greg / Los Angeles /
SolarSonic 26' Eleganza / GreenMachine 21' cut-down Birchhaven refurb, in progress!
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Thanks for the feedback Bob, Jeff and John!

a bit of follow-up:

> Maybe the shop that installed your previous starter used too many shims and the starter gear didn't get enough bite on the flexplate teeth.

Probably something like that... Definitely want to take precautions to avoid this!
The memory is kinda foggy, but I recall it costing something like $400 to fix,... for the parts? the gear?
I think this was without them charging me labor... Anyway... Obviously i'll take precautions lining it up right.

> I would replace the starter with the spare you have handy and then deal with the original to be
> your new spare. (Service and repair the one you removed now you have the time) maybe the warrantee will look after it. (Not the solenoid though)

Sounds like a good plan...
I think my main question at this point, considering that my "new" spare starter has been sitting for 10 years: Is there any need for spraying any lubricant inside there??

> As far as the starter, even though you can replace the solenoid, I'd replace the whole thing.

Yes, i'll use my "new" spare, but i think i'll buy a brand new solenoid to have on-hand... or to use with the old starter... if it tests out otherwise OK. Wondering if they can actually test the rest of it, with the solenoid removed? first i'd have to remove 10 years of oil and grease before they'd want to touch this thing.

Anybody else ever notice you pretty much have to remove the oil filter to easily access the main solenoid terminal? Obligatory oil-change, ha ha!

> I've gone through several of the 100 amp Autozone alternators and there's never a question, but I noticed the last time that the availability is not as good as it used to be.

Thanks for the heads-up! Time to give them a call ahead..
(Los Angeles is finally getting rain... No point going out with the crazies on the road).

Thanks all... cheers!
G


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OK, the starter on the '78 403 Eleganza has been intermittent the past year, and so of course i've tightened all battery connections, and when i went to tighten the nut on the starter's solenoid, damn! the bakelite cracked and the solenoid fell apart. Well, this starter has given about 10 years of service, so maybe time to replace anyway, ha ha (the whole thing? or just the solenoid?). I have a un-used Delco-Remy starter that i bought for the '76 455 Birchhaven about 10 years ago (to have a spare onboard when going deep down into Mexico). never used it! Its been sitting in semi-dry storage and looks good to go. (Looking at the "GMC Parts Exchange" from GMCMHI, it appears that starters for 455s can work in 403s and vice versa, correct?)
When i turn the gear inside by hand (on this 10 year old "new" one), it seems a bit more stiff than the one i just pulled out, and i'm wondering; should i spray some lubricant in there? What kind?
Lastly, i had a nightmare scenario back in '03 when a shop (that shall go nameless) put a starter in the Birchhaven and it stripped the receiving gear on the coach.. got to be a bit costly.. Don't want to make that mistake myself! Any tips/tricks on how to get it to line up, or should it be obvious?
Lastly, as an interesting parting shot; a rather rough start last week...seemed to be stuck... just kept revving up, and before i could get it under control, i heard a big alternator belt squeal, and sure enough, the alternator's dead. Gotta see if this 105 amp will truly be covered by AutoZone lifetime warranty (and the old starter as well, for that matter!)
Any tips and tricks and caveats appreciated! Cheers!
Greg / Los Angeles /

of all the starters I have replaced, on all the cars I have owned. The starters I have had rebuilt by a reputable old school auto electric shop, seem to never go bad again while i own the vehicle.(can't remember any that had an issue, and that is about 10-11 starters?). I know buying a starter from a parts house, I have been back collecting on warantee on at least 2 on the top of my head.

I had my GMC starter gone through locally, and even though my GMC started OK, before i had it rebuilt, it really spun over nice after I had it rebuilt by the local shop, and I was glad I had it done. It was maybe 2-3 years ago, and cost me like $75.

so it would be my recommendation to pull that starter out, and have it gone over by an reputable auto electric re-builder.

I also really like my electric fuel pump on the aux side of my gas system. So between having a carb/choke working properly, a fuel pump to prime the carb, a newer battery, and cables, and rebuilt starter. My starter really does not get much of a work out now, cranks quickly and starts up almost immediately. Even when i fired it up a few weeks ago at -10 degrees out.

I usually remove the starter and rest it on my belly and then disconnect the wiring--much easier to get to the terminals that way. Personally, I wouldn't replace just the solenoid since these starters are notorious for rubbing internally when the bushings wear. I don't see any reason to spray any lube into the starter or on the drive asm since the bushings are impregnated with oil and the drive asm is lubed and unlikely to dry out. Make sure the starter you get has an outer case that has a "stepped" diameter rather than a single diameter the entire length.

Bob de Kruyff wrote on Tue, 02 December 2014 20:34

I usually remove the starter and rest it on my belly and then disconnect the wiring--much easier to get to the terminals that way. Personally, I wouldn't replace just the solenoid since these starters are notorious for rubbing internally when the bushings wear. I don't see any reason to spray any lube into the starter or on the drive asm since the bushings are impregnated with oil and the drive asm is lubed and unlikely to dry out. Make sure the starter you get has an outer case that has a "stepped" diameter rather than a single diameter the entire length.

Bob,

Why do you suggest the stepped case?
All of the GMC starters I have rebuilt were the straight case.

Matt

Greg,

You know you are probably the first person to break the cap of Delco starter (on this coach).
Now... I though I had written a long post about this, but I guess I never posted it.

The starter is a 10MT, that design was used from 1956 to 1995. The real problem with it is that it is too robust. It will keep working (more or less) long past when it should have gone home. Because of this, I recommend two things.
1 - Get a replacement solenoid and a Bush's can. Stand the starter in the can and remove the solenoid you are going to replace anyway. Next, take the tie bolts out of the back plate and lift the back plate clear. Look at the brush arms. If they are close (less than 1/16) from the commutator bars, replace the brushes now.
2 - If the brush carriers have touched the commutator, the whole thing should be broken down and the commutator trued and flattened.

The entire repair kit is 15~20$us. I found one on E-bay. That kit should include the front and rear bearings. You can actually buy just a solenoid cap - too.

If you want to see the whole rebuild, I will send you the slide show.

Matt

Bob de Kruyff wrote on Tue, 02 December 2014 20:34

I usually remove the starter and rest it on my belly and then disconnect the wiring--much easier to get to the terminals that way. Personally, I wouldn't replace just the solenoid since these starters are notorious for rubbing internally when the bushings wear. I don't see any reason to spray any lube into the starter or on the drive asm since the bushings are impregnated with oil and the drive asm is lubed and unlikely to dry out. Make sure the starter you get has an outer case that has a "stepped" diameter rather than a single diameter the entire length.

Bob,

Why do you suggest the stepped case?
All of the GMC starters I have rebuilt were the straight case.

Matt

Both pics are the same; i.e. they appear to have a stepped outer case. I think that pics of both types would be helpful.

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> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:27:54 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: NEXT2POOL@gmail.COM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] replacing starter, tips?
>
> Matt--I thought I better attach a pic since my explanation probably isn't very good. Notice that the correct starter has that "stepped" outer
> diameter. If the starter is a straight outer shell, it is designed for light duty applications, not the GMC:
> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=38702&cc=1225763
> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=38702&cc=1225763
>
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ

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