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| optima battery boiling [message #266366] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 12:07  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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first, this is non-gmc, but could be related.
We have a fiber splicing trailer, that we use at work, and it has a ELX-45 converter/charger. It does state that it should "realize full charge" and switch to maintence mode.
this trailer was put together a year ago, and at that time they put a brand new blue top optima battery in it. I am not sure of it's use since then, but I am thinking about zero. Just been sitting.
I pulled it into the shop, and checked voltage on battery and it registered only a couple volts. I then plugged in the converter/charger, and let it sit overnight...
I came in today to a Major boil over on that Optima battery, it was burning hot, hissing loudly out of the vent, and was obviously pressurized bad. after jumping back, and running at first(scared the crap out of me, It looked like it should of blown up right there). I unplugged the power tot he camper, got it pulled outdoors. and let it sit to cool.(it is 20 degrees out)
Now I read on google, that the optima's do not like a quick charge from dead... so that converter was probably pushing lots of amps right out of the gate. and that might be the problem, or the battery was just bad.
anybody run into a similar issue charging optimas from dead?
FYI, battery has cooled, and is being exchanged. but I am not sure I will put it back into this camper, I will probably go with a traditional lead cell 12RV deep cycle battery. Need to figure out a better way to keep the battery and camper ready to go
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] optima battery boiling [message #266367 is a reply to message #266366] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 13:06  |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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The charger MUST be one that can be set for AGM batteries.
If the Optima was THAT dead, your RV has a parasitic drain of some sort such as a propane and/or CO alarm!
Mac in OKC
"the Money Pit"
Sent from my iPhon
On Nov 19, 2014, at 12:29, Jon Roche wrote:
first, this is non-gmc, but could be related.
We have a fiber splicing trailer, that we use at work, and it has a ELX-45 converter/charger. It does state that it should "realize full charge"
and switch to maintence mode.
this trailer was put together a year ago, and at that time they put a brand new blue top optima battery in it. I am not sure of it's use since
then, but I am thinking about zero. Just been sitting.
I pulled it into the shop, and checked voltage on battery and it registered only a couple volts. I then plugged in the converter/charger, and let it
sit overnight...
I came in today to a Major boil over on that Optima battery, it was burning hot, hissing loudly out of the vent, and was obviously pressurized bad.
after jumping back, and running at first(scared the crap out of me, It looked like it should of blown up right there). I unplugged the power tot he
camper, got it pulled outdoors. and let it sit to cool.(it is 20 degrees out)
Now I read on google, that the optima's do not like a quick charge from dead... so that converter was probably pushing lots of amps right out of the
gate. and that might be the problem, or the battery was just bad.
anybody run into a similar issue charging optimas from dead?
FYI, battery has cooled, and is being exchanged. but I am not sure I will put it back into this camper, I will probably go with a traditional lead
cell 12RV deep cycle battery. Need to figure out a better way to keep the battery and camper ready to go
--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266368 is a reply to message #266366] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 13:23 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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A couple of things could have happened.
1. A cell was shorted and that placed an over voltage condition on the remaining 5 cells.
2. Whatever you are using to charge the battery is charging at a rate in excess of 14.3 volts.
I would replace the battery and then put a maintenance charger on it for the long term. A maintenance charger will put out 13.2 to 13.3 volts and keep it charged with out destroying it.
In the future look at the battery with a volt meter to determine what is happening. Without a charger attached it will tell you the current state of charge. With a charger attached it will tell you whether you are fast, normal, or maintenance charging the battery.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266369 is a reply to message #266366] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 14:12 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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The cause of the dead battery is a moot point now. This is a truck/pickup camper sort of combo, that we setup in sept. of 2013, and it only has 1800 miles on it since then. so I just need to think from scratch for now moving forward.
I am tossing that optima battery, with is a shame, because it still has a warranty(2 years free replacement), but you need receipt, witch we cannot seem to have any record of.
at this point, waiting for supplier to bring me a 12volt RV/Deep cycle battery, and I have some voltage meters, like Eugene recommends, so charge status can easily be checked, and will just keep an eye on it, and make sure someone checks more often then yearly.
our other trailers i put solar power in, but I am hesitant on this one, because it stays inside all the time at this point.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Wed, 19 November 2014 19:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266370 is a reply to message #266369] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 14:33 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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I have a red Optimus battery in my off road car. They will internally self destruct if presented with the initial high voltage that "smart chargers" apply to a lead/acid battery. This was a lesson learned the hard way for me. .
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266371 is a reply to message #266366] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 14:42 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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"Moot" not "Mute"
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266373 is a reply to message #266369] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 15:29 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Jon,
If the truck/camper does not need any power while in storage, I think a battery cut off switch would be in order. Just a simple knife switch would do the trick.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266378 is a reply to message #266373] |
Wed, 19 November 2014 18:23 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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When ever I purchase a new battery for my vehicles, I use a slice of clear plastic packing tape and tape the receipt to the side of the battery. Wal-Mart used to use a sealing plastic bag to do the same thing, but they no longer do so. They will use the production date code on the battery, unless you can prove a later date.
Tom, MS II with 2 new batteries in the GMC this Summer.
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] optima battery boiling [message #266389 is a reply to message #266378] |
Thu, 20 November 2014 05:49 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Ole Bright Spark here decided to take the Wal-Mart receipt for a battery he bought and have it laminated.
Great idea, eh?
WRONG!
Wal-Mart receipts are printed on thermal paper, guess what happens when you run it through the laminator?
SOLID BLACK RECEIPT!
DOUH!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Phipps
When ever I purchase a new battery for my vehicles, I use a slice of clear plastic packing tape and tape the receipt to the side of
the battery.
Wal-Mart used to use a sealing plastic bag to do the same thing, but they no longer do so. They will use the production date code
on the battery, unless you can prove a later date.
Tom
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: optima battery boiling [message #266393 is a reply to message #266385] |
Thu, 20 November 2014 09:07 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Harry wrote on Wed, 19 November 2014 22:16How To Charge an AGM Battery - Hot Rod Magazine
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/interior-electrical/hrdp-1009-how-to-charge-a-agm-battery/
This article is a little deceptive in its title. It would lead you to believe that there is something special about AGM that simply is not true.
What they are doing here is getting around the fact that many modern chargers will not even try to charge a battery that is below 8~10V terminal. This is nothing more than the fact that the sensing circuit won't work below that.
What is true is that an AGM MAY recover from a deep discharge somewhat better, the only real reason that they sulphate less is that there is less sulfuric acid and oxygen in them.
Over the last decade, I have probably installed about a dozen AGM banks. This is both house and main engine. How many batteries total - no clue. I like AGMs a lot, but as near as I can tell, they are only an economic toss-up at this point. Probably by the time the EPA mandated lead shortage comes to drive the basic battery prices out of reason, there will be some new chemistry to take its place.
Facts:
- AGM batteries can accept higher charging current than a similar sized flooded bank. They do not rely on circulating the electrolyte.
- AGM batteries are somewhat less prone to sulphation as noted above. They still have a limited life, it is just longer.
- Rolled cell AGMs are great starting batteries. They have very low internal resistance so cranking voltage holds up well.
- Rolled cell AGMs are not very good at Ampere-Hours per unit volume. By the pound they do OK, but the same box form will weight less.
AGM were originally developed for aircraft, where weight and vibration are both big issues. This set the cost equation off by enough to make them attractive.
What I really want is for the core battery packs from hybrid cars to start to show up in the salvage market. Things would be really neat with a 3~400AH 120VDC house bank that weights about what my 2ea-GCs do right now.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] optima battery boiling [message #266400 is a reply to message #266393] |
Thu, 20 November 2014 11:01 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Just wondering if using a "fixed" voltage 13.5 - 13.8 VDC power supply that is current limited to say 10 - 15 Amps would be a good way to START recovery of a battery that had been excessively discharged until that battery got up to the point where a "modern" multi-stage charger could take over "smart" charging.
I have used a small "unsmart" charger to present an adequate voltage at the battery terminal to get the smart charger started.
I agree that the Optima that vented and boiled over probably had an internal fault (cause unknown).
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:07:40 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: matt7323tze@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] optima battery boiling
>
> Harry wrote on Wed, 19 November 2014 22:16
>> How To Charge an AGM Battery - Hot Rod Magazine
>> http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/interior-electrical/hrdp-1009-how-to-charge-a-agm-battery/
>
> This article is a little deceptive in its title. It would lead you to believe that there is something special about AGM that simply is not true.
>
> What they are doing here is getting around the fact that many modern chargers will not even try to charge a battery that is below 8~10V terminal.
> This is nothing more than the fact that the sensing circuit won't work below that.
>
> What is true is that an AGM MAY recover from a deep discharge somewhat better, the only real reason that they sulphate less is that there is less
> sulfuric acid and oxygen in them.
>
> Over the last decade, I have probably installed about a dozen AGM banks. This is both house and main engine. How many batteries total - no clue. I
> like AGMs a lot, but as near as I can tell, they are only an economic toss-up at this point. Probably by the time the EPA mandated lead shortage
> comes to drive the basic battery prices out of reason, there will be some new chemistry to take its place.
>
> Facts:
> - AGM batteries can accept higher charging current than a similar sized flooded bank. They do not rely on circulating the electrolyte.
> - AGM batteries are somewhat less prone to sulphation as noted above. They still have a limited life, it is just longer.
> - Rolled cell AGMs are great starting batteries. They have very low internal resistance so cranking voltage holds up well.
> - Rolled cell AGMs are not very good at Ampere-Hours per unit volume. By the pound they do OK, but the same box form will weight less.
>
> AGM were originally developed for aircraft, where weight and vibration are both big issues. This set the cost equation off by enough to make them
> attractive.
>
> What I really want is for the core battery packs from hybrid cars to start to show up in the salvage market. Things would be really neat with a
> 3~400AH 120VDC house bank that weights about what my 2ea-GCs do right now.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] optima battery boiling [message #266408 is a reply to message #266400] |
Thu, 20 November 2014 15:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Just take a standard 1, or 2, or 6 amp charger and stick it on the battery over night. Check it in one hour and then again the morning to see where you are. I personally would use a 1 amp one and check it 24 hours later.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] optima battery boiling [message #266417 is a reply to message #266389] |
Thu, 20 November 2014 19:24 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Thu, 20 November 2014 03:49G'day,
Ole Bright Spark here decided to take the Wal-Mart receipt for a battery he bought and have it laminated.
Great idea, eh?
WRONG!
Wal-Mart receipts are printed on thermal paper, guess what happens when you run it through the laminator?
SOLID BLACK RECEIPT!
DOUH!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Phipps
When ever I purchase a new battery for my vehicles, I use a slice of clear plastic packing tape and tape the receipt to the side of
the battery.
Wal-Mart used to use a sealing plastic bag to do the same thing, but they no longer do so. They will use the production date code
on the battery, unless you can prove a later date.
Tom
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LMFAO right now Rob!!! Obviously you never worked at Wal-Mart........
Still laughing, Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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