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Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat (Tranny issues need opinions)
Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264522] Sun, 19 October 2014 19:54 Go to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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Location: Harvest, Al
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ALMOST made it home with the coach.

Here is the situation: Left the Dixielanders rally in Savanna this morning at 7:30 CST and drove hard for about 400 miles, running 65-70 on the interstate. Coach ran great! At about the 400 mile point, 50 miles from home, we were climbing one of two mountains between Atlanta and Huntsville (1250' climb...big hill to most but it's pretty big to us), anyway, I pulled it into second and got into the secondaries and ran up the hill about 3400 rpm. No problem. Topped the hill and eased it back into drive. A few minutes later it the rpms climb up to about 3000 then back down to the 2400. It does this pretty frequently. According to the tranny temp on our Accugauge, the tranny temp is about 140 (it never moves once it warms up.)

This continues to occur so I pull into a gas station and check the trans fluid. Down a quart and a half. No visible leaks, no smoke, nothing appears amiss. No fluid on the toad or dripping from the chassis. I saw no smoke from the tailpipe but might not given my mirror setup. I use a backup camera and have my exhaust side (passenger) mirror sit to show the dead spot.

This is a Manny Tranny with about 4500 miles on it without a prior hitch.

Add the fluid and expect the problem will be gone. Nope, same thing. Of course by now, I'm listening to every sound and bump and trying things. Pull the tranny into second and it will run up to 3000+ fine. First gear MAY be holding in a bit longer, I was driving pretty carefully and didn't pay that much attention to tell the truth.

I'm not sure it is actually downshifting. With the RPM at about 2200 if I accelerated any or hit an incline, the RPM would fairly quickly spool up to near 3000 and then about as quickly spool back down to 2200. Almost like it wanted to shift but about the time it got there changed its mind.

Decided NOT to try and make the 1500' climb of Monte Sano with it's lack of shoulder and left the coach at my Sister-in-Laws and came home in the Saturn.

One final data point, when I was backing up to my Sister-in-laws garage, the coach was shuddering a bit in reverse. Not a lot but a 'what the hell was that moment'.

Automatic transmissions are black magic to me but here is what I THINK. I'm soliciting opinions but will talk to Manny before doing anything.

1- I strongly suspect the vacuum modulator has ruptured the diaphragm. That would account for the loss of fluid but I'd think that ALL gears would be effected. Perhaps they were and the shift points were all off and including the issue with reverse....I don't know.

2- Don't think it's the governor because as I understand it, when they go, you'll never get out of second.

3- I guess it's possible that something has failed internally and the clutches are slipping and just not holding. Don't know.

If Manny thinks it the modulator, I'll change it out and drive it home. Otherwise, I'll get to try out my Allstate towing coverage.

Your thoughts are welcome.


Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264534 is a reply to message #264522] Sun, 19 October 2014 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bobby5832708 is currently offline  bobby5832708   United States
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Location: Winter Springs FL
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If I remember TH425's correctly, it sounds like the direct clutch is slipping. This clutch is applied in 3rd and reverse (the shuddering in reverse is the clue). Depending on how bad the direct clutch slips when driving forward you will have somewhere between second and third gears. Eventually the direct clutch will fail completely and you will be driving around in first and second gears as you will lose third and reverse. With any luck it's slipping because the modulator is screwing up causing low pressure which allows the clutches to slip.

Why not replace the modulator and try to get it home? What have you got to lose? It's going to have to come apart anyway if it's anything more than a modulator. You had mentioned in another post about wanting 3500 rpms at cruise by changing the diff, this might give you a chance to see if you really want to drive around at 3500 rpms! Just don't get in a situation where you have to back up, especially uphill.



Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL

[Updated on: Sun, 19 October 2014 20:57]

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Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264535 is a reply to message #264522] Sun, 19 October 2014 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Rare. But governor can cause other issues with shifting. looknup wallys info, some can come apart intrrnally and cause some odd stuff.

But my opinion is i think that governor problem is not what you are dealing with. Should not effect fluid consumption or reverse.


Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264538 is a reply to message #264522] Sun, 19 October 2014 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
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So, what color is the fluid? Does it smell burned? One and a half qts low is a lot for this trans. IF the mod is bad it can pass a lot of fluid through the vacuum hose to the intake. Just because it does not smoke doesn't mean it isn't burning it. A really hot exhaust will act kinda like a cat converter and burn up the smoke before it hits the tailpipe, so no smoke. The fluid is going somewhere and if it is not leaking or ending up in the FD, it's gotta be burning it. These symptoms (accept the low fluid) happened to me 12 yrs ago when I bought our coach. Backed it up into the driveway...chattered like hell. It was the direct clutch. Hope that is not your problem. I was lucky I made it home. The modulator is a cheap test. Crossing my fingers for you....

Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264539 is a reply to message #264538] Sun, 19 October 2014 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
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Larry wrote on Sun, 19 October 2014 21:41
So, what color is the fluid? Does it smell burned? One and a half qts low is a lot for this trans. IF the mod is bad it can pass a lot of fluid through the vacuum hose to the intake. Just because it does not smoke doesn't mean it isn't burning it. A really hot exhaust will act kinda like a cat converter and burn up the smoke before it hits the tailpipe, so no smoke. The fluid is going somewhere and if it is not leaking or ending up in the FD, it's gotta be burning it. These symptoms (accept the low fluid) happened to me 12 yrs ago when I bought our coach. Backed it up into the driveway...chattered like hell. It was the direct clutch. Hope that is not your problem. I was lucky I made it home. The modulator is a cheap test. Crossing my fingers for you....

OH, of coarse...pull the vacuum line at the carb. IF there is trans fluid there....you got your answer.


Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264541 is a reply to message #264539] Sun, 19 October 2014 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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Larry wrote on Sun, 19 October 2014 21:43
...OH, of coarse...pull the vacuum line at the carb. IF there is trans fluid there....you got your answer.


Good idea Larry! The fluid looks new and does not smell burnt at all and, again, the temp gauge on the tranny (on a pan bolt) never showed hot, even when climbing the hill at near WOT.


Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264554 is a reply to message #264541] Mon, 20 October 2014 04:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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That is the same clutch that went out on my trans. I was at a rally and when it went completely and I lost 3rd and reverse. I ended up driving it home in second and stayed off of the interstates. I think I ran 45 or 50 in second all the way home. When I pulled the dip stick I could see clutch particles on only one side of the dipstick. A new Manny transmission took care of my problem.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264558 is a reply to message #264522] Mon, 20 October 2014 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wally is currently offline  wally   United States
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Sun, 19 October 2014 19:54
ALMOST made it home with the coach.

Here is the situation: Left the Dixielanders rally in Savanna this morning at 7:30 CST and drove hard for about 400 miles, running 65-70 on the interstate. Coach ran great! At about the 400 mile point, 50 miles from home, we were climbing one of two mountains between Atlanta and Huntsville (1250' climb...big hill to most but it's pretty big to us), anyway, I pulled it into second and got into the secondaries and ran up the hill about 3400 rpm. No problem. Topped the hill and eased it back into drive. A few minutes later it the rpms climb up to about 3000 then back down to the 2400. It does this pretty frequently. According to the tranny temp on our Accugauge, the tranny temp is about 140 (it never moves once it warms up.)

This continues to occur so I pull into a gas station and check the trans fluid. Down a quart and a half. No visible leaks, no smoke, nothing appears amiss. No fluid on the toad or dripping from the chassis. I saw no smoke from the tailpipe but might not given my mirror setup. I use a backup camera and have my exhaust side (passenger) mirror sit to show the dead spot.

This is a Manny Tranny with about 4500 miles on it without a prior hitch.

Add the fluid and expect the problem will be gone. Nope, same thing. Of course by now, I'm listening to every sound and bump and trying things. Pull the tranny into second and it will run up to 3000+ fine. First gear MAY be holding in a bit longer, I was driving pretty carefully and didn't pay that much attention to tell the truth.

I'm not sure it is actually downshifting. With the RPM at about 2200 if I accelerated any or hit an incline, the RPM would fairly quickly spool up to near 3000 and then about as quickly spool back down to 2200. Almost like it wanted to shift but about the time it got there changed its mind.

Decided NOT to try and make the 1500' climb of Monte Sano with it's lack of shoulder and left the coach at my Sister-in-Laws and came home in the Saturn.

One final data point, when I was backing up to my Sister-in-laws garage, the coach was shuddering a bit in reverse. Not a lot but a 'what the hell was that moment'.

Automatic transmissions are black magic to me but here is what I THINK. I'm soliciting opinions but will talk to Manny before doing anything.

1- I strongly suspect the vacuum modulator has ruptured the diaphragm. That would account for the loss of fluid but I'd think that ALL gears would be effected. Perhaps they were and the shift points were all off and including the issue with reverse....I don't know.

2- Don't think it's the governor because as I understand it, when they go, you'll never get out of second.

3- I guess it's possible that something has failed internally and the clutches are slipping and just not holding. Don't know.

If Manny thinks it the modulator, I'll change it out and drive it home. Otherwise, I'll get to try out my Allstate towing coverage.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Good morning Kerry,
If it is the gov and it went goofy like Dan Gregg's it may be OK until the tranny oil warms up and the viscosity drops. Shudder in reverse would point to it not being the gov.
HTH


Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264560 is a reply to message #264522] Mon, 20 October 2014 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Galbavy is currently offline  Jim Galbavy   United States
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If it was the governor that failed, wouldn't the speedometer not be
working too?

jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264561 is a reply to message #264522] Mon, 20 October 2014 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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Senior Member
Jim- when my governor gear failed, speedometer quit, it got stuck with only 1st and reverse.

I changed the gear, but I used too much force the wrong way changing the gear, and I bent something internal inside the top. That caused it to be stuck in reverse and 3rd, and the speedometer worked fine. Got that stuff bent the way it was supposed to be and it is fixed and all good now.

I have seen pictures and discussions by Wally before, that shows other things can get loose up inside the top of the governor, and cause odd shifting. not effecting the speedometer.



Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264567 is a reply to message #264522] Mon, 20 October 2014 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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Speedometer works fine which is why I don't think it's the gov.

Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264574 is a reply to message #264522] Mon, 20 October 2014 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chr$ is currently offline  Chr$   United States
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Registered: January 2004
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I'm leaning to the Modulator. Did what my old Chevy II trans did. It shuddered in reverse and slammed from 2nd to first on the downshift. (Was a powerglide) Check the vac line, like someone said, if oily, there is your answer.

-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ

77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264591 is a reply to message #264522] Mon, 20 October 2014 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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Registered: July 2012
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Talked to Manny this morning. He doesn't think it's the modulator but rather thinks it's the third gear (and reverse) drive clutches. He said that if I pulled the modulator, fluid would run out and I would know if it was burnt.

He thought it MIGHT be the governor so I picked up a new modulator and pulled the good governor out of my old tranny. Changing the governor took only a couple minutes and I pulled forward and tried to back up only to have major shuddering. Called Manny back and his confidence that it was the clutch pack was near certain but said I could drive it home in 2nd. The wife was not at all excited about that so I used my Allstate towing and we came the 27 miles home on the hook (BIG 500HP Freightliner semi boom wrecker with wheel lifts.)

Anyway, we're home and on my concrete rather than working on the Sister-in-laws gravel. I'll probably start looking into it later this week but Manny (and I) are both in the 99% opinion that it has to come out.

I still don't know where the fluid went but as Manny said, no transmission can survive being 2 quarts low.


Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264596 is a reply to message #264591] Mon, 20 October 2014 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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If you have it home now then you could pull the pan and see if there is clutch material ground up inside it. When that clutch went in mine, I drove it home in 2nd gear and pulled the pan. It was very obvious that I had a clutch problem because the clutch material was all over inside the pan.

Pull the pan and take a look.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264604 is a reply to message #264596] Tue, 21 October 2014 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stick miller is currently offline  stick miller   United States
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Dang! I hate that. I think the transmission was overloaded. I'm just thinking back on all that good Savannah food we ate. Nothing can withstand all that extra weight. Smile

Really sorry for your troubles. Good thing you had the Saturn.


Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
Re: Home from the Savanna Rally but in the lifeboat [message #264607 is a reply to message #264522] Tue, 21 October 2014 08:34 Go to previous message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
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OH man!!!..Sorry to hear of these troubles. Well, now is your chance to maybe get that Switch pitch you've always wanted...Wink

Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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