Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering
[GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263547] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 09:53 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Despite all the discussions about the importance of properly centering
the GMC's steering box, I suspect there are those we really haven't
convinced. The email below, sent to Alex Ferrara, who's aligned about
40 boxes in the past year or so, may help convince everyone. I
forward it with the permission of those directly involved:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex---thanks for taking the time to check out and adjust the steering
on my 76 coach –and also my brother Bob’s 75 (the one used in your
seminar).
We drove 900 miles home, on a variety of road surfaces and weather
conditions--- including heavy rains with lots of water in the truck
grooves -high cross winds -- badly rutted asphalt - old and new
asphalt –---concrete with lap joints every 50 feet etc. and roads with
a level crown and uneven edges/shoulder,- in all--- a very typical
test bed for the gmc. The coach used to 'dive' for the shoulder as it
dipped, but not any more!!
As a bit of trivia history-- I worked for GM until 1975 and was
familiar with our GMC offering-- but never drove one ---just lusted
for their style and appeal –I bought my coach in 1984 in Louisiana
with 54000 miles on the od.--and driving it home the 1400 miles - it
was a physical torture test- a real work out---I questioned my
rational of buying such a loose goose. My shoulders and arms ached all
day and I white knuckled the entire trip. I replaced all of the
steering components other than the box (and it was center adjusted at
a GMC shop in MI.)----thereafter I had alignments done twice at 2
different facilities who had racks large enough to accept the whole
coach. The steering improved and was--- I thought now acceptable(in
comparison to how it was before ).
My usual drive was with my right hand firmly gripping the wheel
--while occasionally resting my arm in my lap –I have a fold down arm
rest on the right side of the seat and would alternate using it in the
fold up or down position to rest my arm –for a change of arm/shoulder
position -switching to my left hand for the major work while relaxing
-the right one –always clutching tight with both hands when trucks
passed either direction -or the road surface got wonky.
Of interest since I don’t drive the gmc frequently –.-on each trip I
found after the first day -my wrists ached and I was conscious of a
stiff right elbow-and neck muscles.
The 900 mile trip home from Chippewa Falls was a real eye
opener-----right hand resting in lap -light touch on the wheel ---I
never once put the right arm rest down –to rest my arm -- drove often
with just the left hand in my lap-no wrist and shoulder issues – much
less woosh pushing from big trucks passing -with the steering now far
more ‘predictable’ --much like your daily driver.-
In both coaches our opinion was--- amazing ---first time in 30 years
without 110% concentration full time on just steering the thing – a
pleasant relaxed drive just cruising along looking at the fall scenery
.
If I had one caution for those folks-whom you correct their steering
---be aware that now it is quite possible for you to ‘fall asleep at
the wheel’.
Thanks again Alex ---you are my hero , a saint . -----regards (Dick
and Bob) Paterson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263570 is a reply to message #263547] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 11:46 |
PigPen4x4
Messages: 61 Registered: March 2014 Location: Chattanooga Tn
Karma: 1
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I'm convinced, as I have read these posts and keep thinking
"That's ME"!
Since I just can't make the rally's,
can anyone tell me how to check mine and adjust if I find it is needed?
Also, did these units come from the factory that way or did somebody
work on the steering?
Thanks a million!!
Christopher
Christopher Brewer
Chattanooga Tn
Well, no longer an owner.
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263576 is a reply to message #263570] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 12:43 |
midlf
Messages: 2212 Registered: July 2007 Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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PigPen4x4 wrote on Mon, 06 October 2014 11:46I'm convinced, as I have read these posts and keep thinking
"That's ME"!
Since I just can't make the rally's,
can anyone tell me how to check mine and adjust if I find it is needed?
Also, did these units come from the factory that way or did somebody
work on the steering?
Thanks a million!!
Christopher
I was there and saw the demo. After the drive home in the rain with the wind, I'm trying desperately to remember what I saw without missing any steps.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263617 is a reply to message #263576] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 20:08 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Maybe rob will chime in. Didn't rob make a pictorial on the steering box
and the relationship of he shaft to the mounting bolts (CRS)?
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Steve Southworth
wrote:
> PigPen4x4 wrote on Mon, 06 October 2014 11:46
>> I'm convinced, as I have read these posts and keep thinking
>> "That's ME"!
>> Since I just can't make the rally's,
>> can anyone tell me how to check mine and adjust if I find it is needed?
>> Also, did these units come from the factory that way or did somebody
>> work on the steering?
>> Thanks a million!!
>> Christopher
>
>
> I was there and saw the demo. After the drive home in the rain with the
> wind, I'm trying desperately to remember what I saw without missing any
> steps.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263621 is a reply to message #263617] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 20:16 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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I found this Christopher:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/steering-box/p54238-steering-box-adjustment.html
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> Maybe rob will chime in. Didn't rob make a pictorial on the steering box
> and the relationship of he shaft to the mounting bolts (CRS)?
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Steve Southworth
> wrote:
>
>> PigPen4x4 wrote on Mon, 06 October 2014 11:46
>>> I'm convinced, as I have read these posts and keep thinking
>>> "That's ME"!
>>> Since I just can't make the rally's,
>>> can anyone tell me how to check mine and adjust if I find it is needed?
>>> Also, did these units come from the factory that way or did somebody
>>> work on the steering?
>>> Thanks a million!!
>>> Christopher
>>
>>
>> I was there and saw the demo. After the drive home in the rain with the
>> wind, I'm trying desperately to remember what I saw without missing any
>> steps.
>> --
>> Steve Southworth
>> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
>> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
>> Palmyra WI
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
>
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263651 is a reply to message #263547] |
Tue, 07 October 2014 01:22 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I can't remember the details, but Alex redid a coach at Montgomery where
some component had worn through and had put the coaches owners in serious
trouble if it wasn't corrected.
Undoubtedly saved the owners life.
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Despite all the discussions about the importance of properly centering
> the GMC's steering box, I suspect there are those we really haven't
> convinced. The email below, sent to Alex Ferrara, who's aligned about
> 40 boxes in the past year or so, may help convince everyone. I
> forward it with the permission of those directly involved:
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Alex---thanks for taking the time to check out and adjust the steering
> on my 76 coach -and also my brother Bob's 75 (the one used in your
> seminar).
>
> We drove 900 miles home, on a variety of road surfaces and weather
> conditions--- including heavy rains with lots of water in the truck
> grooves -high cross winds -- badly rutted asphalt - old and new
> asphalt ----concrete with lap joints every 50 feet etc. and roads with
> a level crown and uneven edges/shoulder,- in all--- a very typical
> test bed for the gmc. The coach used to 'dive' for the shoulder as it
> dipped, but not any more!!
>
> As a bit of trivia history-- I worked for GM until 1975 and was
> familiar with our GMC offering-- but never drove one ---just lusted
> for their style and appeal -I bought my coach in 1984 in Louisiana
> with 54000 miles on the od.--and driving it home the 1400 miles - it
> was a physical torture test- a real work out---I questioned my
> rational of buying such a loose goose. My shoulders and arms ached all
> day and I white knuckled the entire trip. I replaced all of the
> steering components other than the box (and it was center adjusted at
> a GMC shop in MI.)----thereafter I had alignments done twice at 2
> different facilities who had racks large enough to accept the whole
> coach. The steering improved and was--- I thought now acceptable(in
> comparison to how it was before ).
>
> My usual drive was with my right hand firmly gripping the wheel
> --while occasionally resting my arm in my lap -I have a fold down arm
> rest on the right side of the seat and would alternate using it in the
> fold up or down position to rest my arm -for a change of arm/shoulder
> position -switching to my left hand for the major work while relaxing
> -the right one -always clutching tight with both hands when trucks
> passed either direction -or the road surface got wonky.
>
> Of interest since I don't drive the gmc frequently -.-on each trip I
> found after the first day -my wrists ached and I was conscious of a
> stiff right elbow-and neck muscles.
>
> The 900 mile trip home from Chippewa Falls was a real eye
> opener-----right hand resting in lap -light touch on the wheel ---I
> never once put the right arm rest down -to rest my arm -- drove often
> with just the left hand in my lap-no wrist and shoulder issues - much
> less woosh pushing from big trucks passing -with the steering now far
> more 'predictable' --much like your daily driver.-
>
> In both coaches our opinion was--- amazing ---first time in 30 years
> without 110% concentration full time on just steering the thing - a
> pleasant relaxed drive just cruising along looking at the fall scenery
> .
>
> If I had one caution for those folks-whom you correct their steering
> ---be aware that now it is quite possible for you to 'fall asleep at
> the wheel'.
>
> Thanks again Alex ---you are my hero , a saint . -----regards (Dick
> and Bob) Paterson
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
> Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263670 is a reply to message #263547] |
Tue, 07 October 2014 07:29 |
skip2
Messages: 544 Registered: September 2011 Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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All this discussion on steering shafts being out of phase has got me wondering is there a correct alignment shown anywhere for all of the components and their relationship to each other in the steering shaft, the u-joint, slider shafts, the cv, and that little monster on top that can go 6 different ways. I remember making sure that 2 piece driveshaft u-joints were syncronized or there would be one heck of a vibration. Can't actually find a definitive photo or description with all the components. I know it's not high speed but with these beast, as we all know, the littlest thing can make the biggest difference.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263683 is a reply to message #263670] |
Tue, 07 October 2014 09:45 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337 Registered: March 2008 Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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skip2 wrote on Tue, 07 October 2014 07:29All this discussion on steering shafts being out of phase has got me wondering is there a correct alignment shown anywhere for all of the components and their relationship to each other in the steering shaft, the u-joint, slider shafts, the cv, and that little monster on top that can go 6 different ways. I remember making sure that 2 piece driveshaft u-joints were syncronized or there would be one heck of a vibration. Can't actually find a definitive photo or description with all the components. I know it's not high speed but with these beast, as we all know, the littlest thing can make the biggest difference.
Skip Hartline
yes there is a 'Correct' Phase alignment of all the steering components, but not for vibrations sake. You start at the top, the steering wheel, and make sure that is centered. Alex uses a wooden dowel lashed to the steering wheel and wedged against the windshield and side window so it would NOT move.
Then from there go to the steering box. Make sure the flat on the input shaft is parallel to the bolts on the cover. IF that is correct nothing else in that line matters really. If not then there are about a million combinations to get it aligned properly. USUALLY just a re-centering on the steering box input splines is enough but you may have to index the slip joint ot the CV joint if things are way out.
once all that is done using an adjustable drag link allows you to center the wheels so the coach actually goes straight ahead when the wheel is straight ahead
Having the steering wheel indexed exactly to the steering box allows you to know when everything is lined up right. If something moves, you know where 'right' is.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263695 is a reply to message #263547] |
Tue, 07 October 2014 13:29 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I guess the thing to do is build a GO NO GO fixture for off the coach confirmation of the intermediate shaft. It's hard to confirm with a photo as it's an odd angle when correct due to the lower bolt not being square or 90 to the box input shaft. Matt brings up the important fact to start indoors at the wheel and column scribe marks. In short you can get it "right" with that wrong but the turn signals won't csncel corretly and you won't have the real correct permutation on the intermediate
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263714 is a reply to message #263651] |
Tue, 07 October 2014 16:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bruce,
I asked Alex for the details; here's his scarey reply:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The steering slip shaft was frozen and must have been that way for a
long time as the coach went over the bumps the slip shaft could not
slide thus putting pressure on the steering gear input shaft -
eventually worked itself loose, broke the splines and wore the bolt
out. The bolt eventually became so small that is slipped out of the
slot up onto the spline area and kept breaking the splines until I
caught it with only 1/16 of an inch left before the bolt would be
totally off. I still have that box and I occasionally show it to
people.
Alex
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> Ken,
> I can't remember the details, but Alex redid a coach at Montgomery where
> some component had worn through and had put the coaches owners in serious
> trouble if it wasn't corrected.
> Undoubtedly saved the owners life.
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Steering Box Centering [message #263724 is a reply to message #263714] |
Tue, 07 October 2014 18:57 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken, how fortunate we are to have Alex check our coaches.
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> I asked Alex for the details; here's his scarey reply:
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The steering slip shaft was frozen and must have been that way for a
> long time as the coach went over the bumps the slip shaft could not
> slide thus putting pressure on the steering gear input shaft -
> eventually worked itself loose, broke the splines and wore the bolt
> out. The bolt eventually became so small that is slipped out of the
> slot up onto the spline area and kept breaking the splines until I
> caught it with only 1/16 of an inch left before the bolt would be
> totally off. I still have that box and I occasionally show it to
> people.
> Alex
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Bruce Hart wrote:
>> Ken,
>> I can't remember the details, but Alex redid a coach at Montgomery where
>> some component had worn through and had put the coaches owners in serious
>> trouble if it wasn't corrected.
>> Undoubtedly saved the owners life.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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