| Coach Batt Power Feed [message #263520] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 22:56  |
Jeff Marten
Messages: 199
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 1
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I'm still searching for the source of the batt power to the coach. '78 Royale. I'm wondering if one of the two components on the right are circuit breakers?
There is a 2-post circuit breaker below those in the picture. I jumped it and still no power to the coach. I'm doubting the upper one; wires don't appear heavy enough to carry enough load.
One or more POs have left a wiring mess. #8^(
We had her out this weekend and she worked fine on electric.
1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream
1964 Falcon 'Vert
1980 Bradley GTE
1999 Chevy Tahoe
2005 Saab 93 Aero
1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coach Batt Power Feed [message #263527 is a reply to message #263522] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 00:23  |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Jeff,
Go and download this set of drawings.
or
http://tinyurl.com/qdc8g3c
This should also be what you have for your 1978 coach.
These should be the drawings for the Royal by Coachman. This is a series of drawings in one file.
Scroll down to the 5th drawing, J-LL-921. This gives you the chassis and coach battery wiring layout.
Another one you will want to download is the owners manual if you do not have one for the coach.
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/coachmen_owners_manual-1978.pdf
or
http://tinyurl.com/noqvgv3
You didn’t say if you had Electra level 1 or 2, but the drawings for the chassis electrical are pretty much the same.
or
http://tinyurl.com/nyemvxv
The 2 relays on the right side of your picture are the blower relay on top and the delay relay located under it and have nothing to do with the Coach body wiring. Almost all the wiring shown in the picture appears to be factory, the wiring in the center goes to the back of the fuse block in the glove box. A picture showing more to the left would help.
The big nut with the big red wire #4 red is the Bat Pick Up Jct. and the 50A CB is the breaker shown just before the Compartment Area Pickup Jct.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Oct 6, 2014, at 12:06 AM, Jeff Marten wrote:
> Link to the pic:
>
> https://a4-images.myspacecdn.com/images04/5/c4fb276ed1c140d1a7c20f8446c58f5b/300x300.jpg
>
>
> --
> 1978 Royale
> Side bath w/rear dinette
> 1964 Falcon 'Vert
> 1980 Bradley GTE
> 1996 GMC K2500 Suburban
> 2005 Saab 93 Aero
> 1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
> 1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coach Batt Power Feed [message #263545 is a reply to message #263527] |
Mon, 06 October 2014 09:40 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Are you looking for the House battery 12v line? It should be located on the right hand side post of the boost switch relay. I have seen them moved to do as substitute for fixing either a bad isolator or boost switch. Very hard to tell what a P.O. has done or was thinking of when wires are not where they should be. Restoring it to original wiring might solve the problem.
How about a photo of the boost switch relay? A good photo of both the small plastic block on the left side of your photo and including the boost switch relay, (hint: think vertical shot) would allow us to fully follow the initial wiring in this area.
Always a puzzle to figure out what a P.O. has done, especially in the wiring area. The joys of GMCing.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #263995 is a reply to message #263520] |
Sat, 11 October 2014 16:56 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jeff marten wrote on Sun, 05 October 2014 20:56I'm still searching for the source of the batt power to the coach. '78 Royale. I'm wondering if one of the two components on the right are circuit breakers?
There is a 2-post circuit breaker below those in the picture. I jumped it and still no power to the coach. I'm doubting the upper one; wires don't appear heavy enough to carry enough load.
One or more POs have left a wiring mess. #8^(
We had her out this weekend and she worked fine on electric.
In my 1976 Coachman there is a #2 cable that runs from the boost solenoid across the front and all the way down the driver's side to the Onan compartment. There is a junction on the floor of the Onan compartment, and another slightly smaller cable runs from this to the 12 volt panel under the passenger side couch.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264000 is a reply to message #263995] |
Sat, 11 October 2014 19:05 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jeff, round object next to Perko battery select switch is a circuit breaker. Hard to tell amp capability, but probably 50 amp, based on where it is in the overall wiring scheme.
It does not matter on which side of the boost relay is "house" or "engine" battery side, just keep them on opposite side, if you expect to function as designed. Seen several coaches where P.O. But both batteries to the same side instead of finding the failed relay or isolator. Or, a temporary fix became permanent.
I read it a few times, but do not understand the wiring from batteries to the Perko battery switch. This is a P.O. Item, and not sure what it is intended to do. I can understand using the battery switch as an absolute disconnect for the battery, but you need to trace where the battery positions on the Perko are wired in.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264012 is a reply to message #263994] |
Sat, 11 October 2014 22:15 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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ALL engine battery / power functions need to be on the same side of the boost solenoid INCLUDING the cable going to the starter. As far as I can tell fron the picture, that is what you have done. In the picture it appears that you have all engine power functions on the right side of the boost solenoid. The right side of the picture is the driver's side of the coach.
As far as circuit breakers go, on a GM upfitted coach with rear house batteries the second circuit breaker is located in the rear near the house batteries. On a Coachman Royale I have no idea where the house batteries are located.
I have no idea what a Perko is and what function it is performing on your coach. It must be a PO add-on / modification.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264022 is a reply to message #264012] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 09:08 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 11 October 2014 22:15
I have no idea what a Perko is and what function it is performing on your coach. It must be a PO add-on / modification.
Perko is a battery switch that allows you to select batt1, batt2 or 1+2 or OFF. I believe it is primarily a marine product.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264050 is a reply to message #264048] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 15:48 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 12 October 2014 15:33What is he trying to do with that switch?
Think of it as a manual combiner or a manual isolator. The switch determines which battery(s) will be connected to the systemd. In this case the question is where/how is the main connection from that switch connected to the coach systems.
I'm not sure how it is used on a boat.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264057 is a reply to message #263520] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 17:04 |
Jeff Marten
Messages: 199
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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The house batt + to the Perko, Perko to the boost solenoid. There is a 2nd house batt tray on the left (driver) side of the radiator as well for additional capacity. Its + would connect to the Batt #2 on the Perko.
Generally they're used to connect starting and house batts on a boat. Allows both to be charged without using an isolator; also allows for higher current for starting, similar to the batt boost solenoid. The downside is if you forget to switch from BOTH to the house batt, you may be stuck on the water waiting for a jump or a tow.
1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream
1964 Falcon 'Vert
1980 Bradley GTE
1999 Chevy Tahoe
2005 Saab 93 Aero
1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264073 is a reply to message #264050] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 20:57 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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On a boat, you select a single battery when at anchor. That saves the other battery to start the boat when you run down the first one! Once you are running again, you can temporarily switch to BOTH and then to the one that you ran down while at anchor, etc. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER switch to off while the engines are running/charging. You blow your alternators!
The West Marine catalog has lots of advice for wiring that also apply to RVs.
I'm sure that Matt Colie will confirm this.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:49:01 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: midlf@centurytel.net
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Coach Batt Power Feed
>
> Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 12 October 2014 15:33
>> What is he trying to do with that switch?
>
>
> Think of it as a manual combiner or a manual isolator. The switch determines which battery(s) will be connected to the systemd. In this case the
> question is where/how is the main connection from that switch connected to the coach systems.
>
> I'm not sure how it is used on a boat.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264077 is a reply to message #264057] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 21:43 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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If you have TWO house battery banks, (and one engine battery) why not just combine the house batteries with a combiner and be done with it.
I guess I do not understand what it trying to be accomplished.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264079 is a reply to message #263520] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 21:50 |
Jeff Marten
Messages: 199
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 1
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I'm not sure why the PO installed the Perko. Prob the easiest way to utilize one or two 12v batts. When I add a second house batt, I'll use two 6v batts run in series.
1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream
1964 Falcon 'Vert
1980 Bradley GTE
1999 Chevy Tahoe
2005 Saab 93 Aero
1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264116 is a reply to message #264077] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 08:08 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 12 October 2014 22:43If you have TWO house battery banks, (and one engine battery) why not just combine the house batteries with a combiner and be done with it.
I guess I do not understand what it trying to be accomplished.
Ken,
Many insurance carriers were requiring a master battery disconnect.
That was, until, they discovered that installed as required, it also disconnected any automatic bilge pump.
(Fall back and punt.) So, they revised the rules to nobody's benefit.
Also, at that time, most boats did not have a house and an engine battery.
Some had two batteries, and to share the load these switches were installed.
These people were slow to adopt diode isolators and combiners.
As said, many of these switches were break-before-make and switching the wrong way with the engine running could take out your alternator's bridge fast.
Actually, I thought all of this was kind of neat. It allowed me to make a reasonable living bringing cruising boat electrics up to the level that our coaches were in the 70's. But then, if you knew the technology level (more accurately, the lack thereof) of most pleasure boat builders, you would be astounded - even today....
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264128 is a reply to message #264116] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 09:36 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Both of my boats (1986 28' Carver sedan then 1995 35' Carver aft cabin) had that style of master power switch, but the automatic bilge pump float switches were
wired HOT (through circuit breakers) to the batteries for safety.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 07:08:43 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: matt7323tze@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Coach Batt Power Feed
>
> Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 12 October 2014 22:43
>> If you have TWO house battery banks, (and one engine battery) why not just combine the house batteries with a combiner and be done with it.
>>
>> I guess I do not understand what it trying to be accomplished.
>
> Ken,
>
> Many insurance carriers were requiring a master battery disconnect.
> That was, until, they discovered that installed as required, it also disconnected any automatic bilge pump.
> (Fall back and punt.) So, they revised the rules to nobody's benefit.
>
> Also, at that time, most boats did not have a house and an engine battery.
> Some had two batteries, and to share the load these switches were installed.
> These people were slow to adopt diode isolators and combiners.
> As said, many of these switches were break-before-make and switching the wrong way with the engine running could take out your alternator's bridge
> fast.
>
> Actually, I thought all of this was kind of neat. It allowed me to make a reasonable living bringing cruising boat electrics up to the level that our
> coaches were in the 70's. But then, if you knew the technology level (more accurately, the lack thereof) of most pleasure boat builders, you would be
> astounded - even today....
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving the Applied Rear Brake Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Coach Batt Power Feed [message #264823 is a reply to message #263520] |
Sat, 25 October 2014 22:35 |
Jeff Marten
Messages: 199
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Found the other circuit breaker. It is inline between the smaller feed (#8 wire maybe?) connected to the + batt feed at the gen compartment, and the 12v fuse block which on mine is under the rear u-shaped dinette. PO had it all taped and somewhat tied up between the frame rail and the black tank. Replaced the breaker and all is well. 
Thanks everyone for all the assistance!
1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream
1964 Falcon 'Vert
1980 Bradley GTE
1999 Chevy Tahoe
2005 Saab 93 Aero
1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
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