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| [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263422] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 10:55  |
GMC.LES
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Mr. Fisher posted on FB that Manny has found a new crate motor that can be used in the TZE. No additional details were provided other than a bit of speculation from some other FB participants.
Does anyone here have additional details on Manny's latest achievement? It would be nice to know what the engine is and what is required to install it. From the FB photos, it looks as though Manny did a presentation on the engine, so the info certainly isn't top secret.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263426 is a reply to message #263425] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 11:25  |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
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So it isn't a new engine discovery, but rather a source of NOS no-longer-produced engines that have been proven to work acceptably well in the TZE. Good on Manny for exploiting this. I'm a fan of Diesels so this interests me.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:10 PM, James Hupy wrote:
No big secret. The engine is a BRAND NEW AM GENERAL 6.5 LITER DIESEL.
TURBO. pre-combustion chamber injected with glow plugs. Similar to the
engine in the Hummer. Manny and the Rep from the factory put on a
demonstration at GMCWS. The engine puts out about 400 foot pounds of torque
at 2200 rpm. Mates to the TM-425. Uses a 6 lug flex plate and an
appropriate torque converter. Manny beefs up the primary drive with special
Torrington style thrust bearings. Engine will pull 2:73 or 3:07 final
drive. Expected to produce 14 miles per gallon or so. It fits the engine
bay through the top or out the bottom with no alteration to the coach. No
raised hatch either. Looks to me like a winner. Cost? $10,000 +.
Jim Hupy
> On Oct 5, 2014 8:55 AM, "Les Burt" wrote:
>
> Mr. Fisher posted on FB that Manny has found a new crate motor that can be
> used in the TZE. No additional details were provided other than a bit of
> speculation from some other FB participants.
>
> Does anyone here have additional details on Manny's latest achievement? It
> would be nice to know what the engine is and what is required to install
> it. From the FB photos, it looks as though Manny did a presentation on the
> engine, so the info certainly isn't top secret.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263428 is a reply to message #263426] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 11:35 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Les, those engines are STILL ACTIVE PRODUCTION ENGINES. THEY ARE NOT NEW
OLD STOCK. As orders for the engines are received, AM General will
manufacture them for this specific use. Manifolding, turbocharger sizing,
injector pump and lines, injectors, are unique to this application. This
has a great opportunity to extend the useful life of the coach. Yes, I am
kinda excited about this deal.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or at GMCWS
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Oct 5, 2014 9:25 AM, "Les Burt" wrote:
> So it isn't a new engine discovery, but rather a source of NOS
> no-longer-produced engines that have been proven to work acceptably well in
> the TZE. Good on Manny for exploiting this. I'm a fan of Diesels so this
> interests me.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:10 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> No big secret. The engine is a BRAND NEW AM GENERAL 6.5 LITER DIESEL.
> TURBO. pre-combustion chamber injected with glow plugs. Similar to the
> engine in the Hummer. Manny and the Rep from the factory put on a
> demonstration at GMCWS. The engine puts out about 400 foot pounds of torque
> at 2200 rpm. Mates to the TM-425. Uses a 6 lug flex plate and an
> appropriate torque converter. Manny beefs up the primary drive with special
> Torrington style thrust bearings. Engine will pull 2:73 or 3:07 final
> drive. Expected to produce 14 miles per gallon or so. It fits the engine
> bay through the top or out the bottom with no alteration to the coach. No
> raised hatch either. Looks to me like a winner. Cost? $10,000 +.
> Jim Hupy
>> On Oct 5, 2014 8:55 AM, "Les Burt" wrote:
>>
>> Mr. Fisher posted on FB that Manny has found a new crate motor that can
> be
>> used in the TZE. No additional details were provided other than a bit of
>> speculation from some other FB participants.
>>
>> Does anyone here have additional details on Manny's latest achievement?
> It
>> would be nice to know what the engine is and what is required to install
>> it. From the FB photos, it looks as though Manny did a presentation on
> the
>> engine, so the info certainly isn't top secret.
>>
>> Les Burt
>> Montreal
>> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
>> A work in Progress
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263430 is a reply to message #263425] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 12:12 |
LNelson
Messages: 335
Registered: December 2008
Location: Springfield, MO
Karma: 0
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Jim, is the "$10,000+" the engine still strapped to the crate or ??? Watching presentations of some of these swaps I recall issues with the oil pan and I guess this is not a problem with this?
Since this price is about what some of the "high end" rebuilders get on the 455....I am interested in this, too. Is Manny planning on doing these installs?
I am curious about this, for sure.
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263432 is a reply to message #263428] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 12:13 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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That is even better news!
I wonder if the production quality is better on those engines due to the lower volumes produced?
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:35 PM, James Hupy wrote:
Les, those engines are STILL ACTIVE PRODUCTION ENGINES. THEY ARE NOT NEW
OLD STOCK. As orders for the engines are received, AM General will
manufacture them for this specific use. Manifolding, turbocharger sizing,
injector pump and lines, injectors, are unique to this application. This
has a great opportunity to extend the useful life of the coach. Yes, I am
kinda excited about this deal.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or at GMCWS
78 GMC ROYALE 403
> On Oct 5, 2014 9:25 AM, "Les Burt" wrote:
>
> So it isn't a new engine discovery, but rather a source of NOS
> no-longer-produced engines that have been proven to work acceptably well in
> the TZE. Good on Manny for exploiting this. I'm a fan of Diesels so this
> interests me.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:10 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> No big secret. The engine is a BRAND NEW AM GENERAL 6.5 LITER DIESEL.
> TURBO. pre-combustion chamber injected with glow plugs. Similar to the
> engine in the Hummer. Manny and the Rep from the factory put on a
> demonstration at GMCWS. The engine puts out about 400 foot pounds of torque
> at 2200 rpm. Mates to the TM-425. Uses a 6 lug flex plate and an
> appropriate torque converter. Manny beefs up the primary drive with special
> Torrington style thrust bearings. Engine will pull 2:73 or 3:07 final
> drive. Expected to produce 14 miles per gallon or so. It fits the engine
> bay through the top or out the bottom with no alteration to the coach. No
> raised hatch either. Looks to me like a winner. Cost? $10,000 +.
> Jim Hupy
>> On Oct 5, 2014 8:55 AM, "Les Burt" wrote:
>>
>> Mr. Fisher posted on FB that Manny has found a new crate motor that can
> be
>> used in the TZE. No additional details were provided other than a bit of
>> speculation from some other FB participants.
>>
>> Does anyone here have additional details on Manny's latest achievement?
> It
>> would be nice to know what the engine is and what is required to install
>> it. From the FB photos, it looks as though Manny did a presentation on
> the
>> engine, so the info certainly isn't top secret.
>>
>> Les Burt
>> Montreal
>> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
>> A work in Progress
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263436 is a reply to message #263430] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 12:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I knew that I would open a can of worms with that price! Thus, the + sign.
Manny intends to provide the package deal. Modified pan for the stub axle
shaft, front engine mounting plate as well as brackets for mounting the
stub shaft to the block, remote oil cooler and filter adapter, modified
transmission, etc. Prices have NOT BEEN FINALIZED for the package as of
TODAY..When he gets all the details worked out, HE will make those figures
available. I plan on being involved in the installation phase of this deal,
but I am not involved with the pricing, I was just trying to give you a
"ball park figure".
I hope this clarifies what I said.
Jim Hupy
On Oct 5, 2014 10:13 AM, "Larry Nelson"
wrote:
> Jim, is the "$10,000+" the engine still strapped to the crate or ???
> Watching presentations of some of these swaps I recall issues with the oil
> pan
> and I guess this is not a problem with this?
>
> Since this price is about what some of the "high end" rebuilders get on
> the 455....I am interested in this, too. Is Manny planning on doing these
> installs?
>
> I am curious about this, for sure.
> --
> Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
> Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
> now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263437 is a reply to message #263436] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 12:49 |
LNelson
Messages: 335
Registered: December 2008
Location: Springfield, MO
Karma: 0
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No can of worms, Jim. The "+" says it all. Thanks for sharing this info. This is great news for me.
I will be anxious to hear more about the "package".
Thanks again.
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263438 is a reply to message #263425] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 12:41 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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While I do like Diesel power in cars in general, I wonder if a Diesel
engine is such a good idea. After all, you know only need a new engine,
but also a new generator. Aren't there gas engines available that
provide comparable power and, with adjustments, do fit into a GMC?
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II, VA
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263451 is a reply to message #263422] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 14:06 |
Sammy Williams
Messages: 522
Registered: August 2010
Karma: -2
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Now if they would only produce a transmission matching the FWD config to
use this engine with more then 3 gears. (an integreral overdrive--would
give more MPG i'd think as well as some performance.
S. Williams
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Sammy Williams wrote:
> SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!! (JOKE) Oh, I have to get the GMC first. my
> bad.
>
> Sounds like a VERY attractive alternative for the GMC... that works.
>
> And 14 MPG in a coach? That I can live with.
>
> I'll be studying this for sure.
>
> S. Williams
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:01 PM, A. wrote:
>
>> sitzwaffen wrote on Sun, 05 October 2014 13:52
>>> Peer is correct on this. While a diesel engine is nice to have, what
>> about the generator? We have a hard enough time trying to find a suitable
>>> gasoline generator as an Onan replacement so where do we find a diesel
>> generator that will fit our GMCs?
>>>
>>> Jerry
>> There are lots of diesel generators out there the correct wattage that
>> wouldn't require any more work to shoehorn into a GMC than the Honda EV6010.
>>
>> But that does need to be factored into the equation.
>>
>> --
>> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
>> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
>> Upper Alabama
>> Perpetually annoyed that "political correctness" and Secular Humanism
>> control every aspect of American life
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263462 is a reply to message #263451] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 14:46 |
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I agree. Most diesels have a narrow operating range. Most often the best
torque is not at high RPM. Even the small Mercedes busses of the 1970s had a
minimum of five speeds but the sure would pull like crazy in addition to
running a PTO to power the rooftop A/C unit. The still got 16 mpg or better
fully loaded with 17 passengers plus appropriate luggage.
If there were a 5-speed to match it would be a dynamite combination.
This development is exciting but there is a lot to think through. It makes
more sense than JimB's experimentation with the GM Duramax, and exercise in
expensive thinking.
But wait, is this getting away from the coach being a TZE? Sorry to raise
the issue.
Byron Songer
Former Owner, Still Admirer
Now in Gulf Breeze, FL
Sammy Williams wrote:
> Now if they would only produce a transmission matching the FWD config to
> use this engine with more then 3 gears. (an integreral overdrive--would
> give more MPG i'd think as well as some performance.
>
> S. Williams
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] New Crate motor for the TZE? [message #263463 is a reply to message #263459] |
Sun, 05 October 2014 14:50 |
 |
Loffen
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
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1690 Rpm on a 6.5 diesel is more than enough at 55 Mph, I promise you that you would not like to run a 6.5 on 2400-2500 rpm for more than a couple of minutes, everything under 2000 rpm is very good, and the torque curve on a 6.5 is way lower than a 455.
Had to edit to add ; regarding the converter so would I not use a switch-pitch but a regular low stall diesel converter from a Th 400
A Hamilto wrote on Sun, 05 October 2014 21:41A Hamilto wrote on Sun, 05 October 2014 14:12If I thought I was going to stay in the GMC "family", and if I had $10,000 plus, and if I had the wherewithal to cut my 23' CanyonLands (with the rusted frame) down to 21 feet, I would be first in line to buy one of those diesel engine kits. That engine with a 2.73 final drive in a 9600 pound single rear "axle" GMC would be THE way to RV for a couple that can travel light but comfortably. Forgot to mention that a switch-pitch is mandatory for a 2.73 final drive, since it is only turning 1690 RPMs at 55 MPH. A standard THM-425 converter with a 2.73 FD wouldn't even get to stall speed in 3rd gear until it gets to 70 MPH.
1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green,
And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway
[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2014 15:09] Report message to a moderator |
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