Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Sometimes Everything Goes Right (Or Manny is Great)
Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262595] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 00:33 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085 Registered: October 2008 Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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When I got the SwitchPitch transmission, Manny said I needed larger cooler lines. Before I knew it he was under there putting in larger lines. This meant that my transmission temperature sensor no longer fit.
I decided I had waited long enough to put the sensor in as I am going to tear over the Grapevine one of these days. I took the old sensor fitting and compared it to the new lines. Just ahead of the transmission Manny put Union blocks so the lines are more manageable. A trip to NAPA produced a new Tee that was exactly the same length. I had to wait an hour for it to be brought from another store so I took the old union block out. That took all of 5 minutes. About a teaspoon of fluid dribbled out.
New connector in hand, I tightened up the fittings and all was good. The new Tee didn't leak a drop. I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary cooler and I am a happy man.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262598 is a reply to message #262595] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 04:48 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117 Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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On Monday, September 22, 2014, George Beckman wrote:
> When I got the SwitchPitch transmission, Manny said I needed larger cooler
> lines. Before I knew it he was under there putting in larger lines. This
> meant that my transmission temperature sensor no longer fit.
>
> I decided I had waited long enough to put the sensor in as I am going to
> tear over the Grapevine one of these days. I took the old sensor fitting and
> compared it to the new lines. Just ahead of the transmission Manny put
> Union blocks so the lines are more manageable. A trip to NAPA produced a new
> Tee that was exactly the same length. I had to wait an hour for it to be
> brought from another store so I took the old union block out. That took all
> of 5 minutes. About a teaspoon of fluid dribbled out.
>
> New connector in hand, I tightened up the fittings and all was good. The
> new Tee didn't leak a drop. I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary
> cooler
No pix?? :)
Erf
> and I am a happy man.
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
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Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
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Alternator Protection Cable
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Re: Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262599 is a reply to message #262595] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 06:10 |
midlf
Messages: 2212 Registered: July 2007 Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Geez don't talk it up like that. Saying every thing is going well just brings in bad juju. Murphy's ears just perked up. Quick, go find something wrong and post about it. That may stop the evil spirits of mechanical mayhem from attacking. <GRIN>
Some days it's good to see a "no problem" posting. Correction, that is "any day".
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262608 is a reply to message #262595] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 07:50 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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George,
Most people put the trans temp sender in the oil pan, which line did you put it in; the one that goes to the cooler or the one that
comes from the cooler?
I note that you've said; " I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary cooler" are you aware that the radiator gets it's ground
through the steel lines to the trans cooler in the radiator. If you have installed an auxiliary cooler in those lines with rubber
connections you have broken that ground.
If you have fitted JR Slaten's braided Stainless Steel oil cooler lines they will do the same so disregard the previous paragraph.
You can also jump across the rubber connections with some wire and hose clamps.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of George Beckman
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:34 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right
When I got the SwitchPitch transmission, Manny said I needed larger cooler lines. Before I knew it he was under there putting in
larger lines. This meant that my transmission temperature sensor no longer fit.
I decided I had waited long enough to put the sensor in as I am going to tear over the Grapevine one of these days. I took the old
sensor fitting and compared it to the new lines. Just ahead of the transmission Manny put Union blocks so the lines are more
manageable. A trip to NAPA produced a new Tee that was exactly the same length. I had to wait an hour for it to be brought from
another store so I took the old union block out. That took all of 5 minutes. About a teaspoon of fluid dribbled out.
New connector in hand, I tightened up the fittings and all was good. The new Tee didn't leak a drop. I gave a twist on a clamp at
the auxiliary cooler and I am a happy man.
--
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262621 is a reply to message #262608] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 10:23 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085 Registered: October 2008 Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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USAussie wrote on Tue, 23 September 2014 05:50George,
Most people put the trans temp sender in the oil pan, which line did you put it in; the one that goes to the cooler or the one that
comes from the cooler?
I note that you've said; " I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary cooler" are you aware that the radiator gets it's ground
through the steel lines to the trans cooler in the radiator. If you have installed an auxiliary cooler in those lines with rubber
connections you have broken that ground.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Rob,
When I got the gauge B&M said put it in the return line and I did. I know the pan would be a better deal but after watching what is "normal" on the gauge I think I know when to get excited.
I wouldn't say I put the rubber lines on the auxiliary cooler as they were there when I got the coach 50K miles ago. They are not just rubber hose and have proper connections to the tubing. But at the cooler, they are just clamped on. I watch them closely and think about a new cooler from time to time. I hav J.R.s leveling valves and he certainly puts out very nice work.
When I think of the things I should do I am a bit comforted by what I have accomplished.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262624 is a reply to message #262621] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 11:10 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442 Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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You should be able to us a compression fitting where you have the rubber clamped on and use steel tubing.
Emery Stora
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 10:23 AM, George Beckman wrote:
>
> USAussie wrote on Tue, 23 September 2014 05:50
>> George,
>>
>> Most people put the trans temp sender in the oil pan, which line did you put it in; the one that goes to the cooler or the one that
>> comes from the cooler?
>>
>> I note that you've said; " I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary cooler" are you aware that the radiator gets it's ground
>> through the steel lines to the trans cooler in the radiator. If you have installed an auxiliary cooler in those lines with rubber
>> connections you have broken that ground.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>
>
> Rob,
>
> When I got the gauge B&M said put it in the return line and I did. I know the pan would be a better deal but after watching what is "normal" on the
> gauge I think I know when to get excited.
>
> I wouldn't say I put the rubber lines on the auxiliary cooler as they were there when I got the coach 50K miles ago. They are not just rubber hose and
> have proper connections to the tubing. But at the cooler, they are just clamped on. I watch them closely and think about a new cooler from time to
> time. I hav J.R.s leveling valves and he certainly puts out very nice work.
>
> When I think of the things I should do I am a bit comforted by what I have accomplished.
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262697 is a reply to message #262621] |
Tue, 23 September 2014 23:16 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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George,
I'm sorry but I guess I was not clear, the steel lines that go from the transmission to the radiator provide a circuit that grounds
the radiator to the engine. This is important because it helps prevent corrosion.
If those two lines are cut and a non conducting material is put into both of the lines that circuit will be broken and they will not
ground the radiator to the engine through the transmission.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of George Beckman
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:24 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right
USAussie wrote on Tue, 23 September 2014 05:50
> George,
>
> Most people put the trans temp sender in the oil pan, which line did you put it in; the one that goes to the cooler or the one
that
> comes from the cooler?
>
> I note that you've said; " I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary cooler" are you aware that the radiator gets it's ground
> through the steel lines to the trans cooler in the radiator. If you have installed an auxiliary cooler in those lines with rubber
> connections you have broken that ground.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
Rob,
When I got the gauge B&M said put it in the return line and I did. I know the pan would be a better deal but after watching what is
"normal" on the
gauge I think I know when to get excited.
I wouldn't say I put the rubber lines on the auxiliary cooler as they were there when I got the coach 50K miles ago. They are not
just rubber hose and
have proper connections to the tubing. But at the cooler, they are just clamped on. I watch them closely and think about a new
cooler from time to
time. I hav J.R.s leveling valves and he certainly puts out very nice work.
When I think of the things I should do I am a bit comforted by what I have accomplished.
--
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262700 is a reply to message #262697] |
Wed, 24 September 2014 00:23 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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An "auxiliary" cooler will only cut one of the steel lines, the other line remains intact. A "replacement" or "alternative" cooler would replace the one in the radiator and thus violate both steel lines, in which case a ground for the radiator should be established using wire or bracketry.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Re: Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262706 is a reply to message #262595] |
Wed, 24 September 2014 06:13 |
skip2
Messages: 544 Registered: September 2011 Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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If you have the stainless braided engine oil cooler lines, wouldn't that establish the ground needed?
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262715 is a reply to message #262700] |
Wed, 24 September 2014 08:31 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Terry,
DUH! Good point! I never thought of that, however, for some reason I thought / think both my lines have been severed / joined with
rubber, I'll take a look today.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry
An "auxiliary" cooler will only cut one of the steel lines, the other line remains intact. A "replacement" or "alternative" cooler
would replace the one in the radiator and thus violate both steel lines, in which case a ground for the radiator should be
established using wire or bracketry.
--
Terry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262787 is a reply to message #262608] |
Wed, 24 September 2014 23:08 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""George,
Most people put the trans temp sender in the oil pan, which line did you put it in; the one that goes to the cooler or the one that
comes from the cooler?
I note that you've said; " I gave a twist on a clamp at the auxiliary cooler" are you aware that the radiator gets it's ground
through the steel lines to the trans cooler in the radiator. If you have installed an auxiliary cooler in those lines with rubber
connections you have broken that ground.
If you have fitted JR Slaten's braided Stainless Steel oil cooler lines they will do the same so disregard the previous paragraph.
You can also jump across the rubber connections with some wire and hose clamps.
Regards,
Rob M.""
Rob--pls explain that to us. Why does it help to make the components part of an electrolytic loop rather than isolate a component from it?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262788 is a reply to message #262787] |
Thu, 25 September 2014 00:21 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Different materials placed in a conductive medium will result in a difference in voltage potential as charge carriers are stripped from one material and build up on the other. This is electrolysis from nobility of materials. The removal or deposition results changes the atomic structure of the materials. This is what causes internal corrosion in radiators and heater cores. A return path of very little resistance (ground wire) prevents the voltage difference and subsequent electrolysis.
Aluminum radiators and heater cores are more noble than the cast iron engine block, and they will degrade fairly quickly after the coolant changes composition in about 3-4 years because the materials are very thin. If the coolant is Dexcool, the change will occur rather suddenly, the heater core will fill up with orange/brown mud, and the coolant will be very destructive to plastic fittings and plastic radiator tanks. The oil in the plastic gets bleached out and then it shrinks in size and turns very brittle, finally degrading to dust.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262794 is a reply to message #262788] |
Thu, 25 September 2014 10:59 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505 Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Terry,
If all this is a big enough concern, why are most modern vehicles not equipped with grounding features on the rads and heater cores?
I am starting to develop the opinion that the grounding isn't all that necessary provided we perform the recommended cooling system maintenance, specifically coolant replacement.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Sep 25, 2014, at 1:21 AM, Terry wrote:
Different materials placed in a conductive medium will result in a difference in voltage potential as charge carriers are stripped from one material
and build up on the other. This is electrolysis from nobility of materials. The removal or deposition results changes the atomic structure of the
materials. This is what causes internal corrosion in radiators and heater cores. A return path of very little resistance (ground wire) prevents the
voltage difference and subsequent electrolysis.
Aluminum radiators and heater cores are more noble than the cast iron engine block, and they will degrade fairly quickly after the coolant changes
composition in about 3-4 years because the materials are very thin. If the coolant is Dexcool, the change will occur rather suddenly, the heater core
will fill up with orange/brown mud, and the coolant will be very destructive to plastic fittings and plastic radiator tanks. The oil in the plastic
gets bleached out and then it shrinks in size and turns very brittle, finally degrading to dust.
--
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #262811 is a reply to message #262794] |
Thu, 25 September 2014 19:43 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Galvanic corrosion still occurs, but the materials are sized accordingly, and with proper maintenance will last close to ten years. Manufacturers do not want you owning that same vehicle after ten years. They want you to have already bought a replacement from them when the heater core replacement job was going to cost more than the payment on a new car after you traded that one in.
You cannot win...but proper maintenance will hopefully stave off the evil electrolysis for a few years as long as no metals more noble than aluminum get into the mix. Some modern engines have been having strange electrolysis issues at random areas and there has been no explanation, but I'll bet that many of them have had something to do with the metal that the thermostat is made out of, whether it's factory or aftermarket.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #263027 is a reply to message #262788] |
Mon, 29 September 2014 19:56 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Bullitthead wrote on Wed, 24 September 2014 23:21Different materials placed in a conductive medium will result in a difference in voltage potential as charge carriers are stripped from one material and build up on the other. This is electrolysis from nobility of materials. The removal or deposition results changes the atomic structure of the materials. This is what causes internal corrosion in radiators and heater cores. A return path of very little resistance (ground wire) prevents the voltage difference and subsequent electrolysis.
Aluminum radiators and heater cores are more noble than the cast iron engine block, and they will degrade fairly quickly after the coolant changes composition in about 3-4 years because the materials are very thin. If the coolant is Dexcool, the change will occur rather suddenly, the heater core will fill up with orange/brown mud, and the coolant will be very destructive to plastic fittings and plastic radiator tanks. The oil in the plastic gets bleached out and then it shrinks in size and turns very brittle, finally degrading to dust.
I got all that but why would you place those materials in a conductive loop by grounding them as most say to do, rather than leave them isolated
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #263029 is a reply to message #262794] |
Mon, 29 September 2014 20:00 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Les Burt[1 wrote on Thu, 25 September 2014 09:59]Terry,
If all this is a big enough concern, why are most modern vehicles not equipped with grounding features on the rads and heater cores?
I am starting to develop the opinion that the grounding isn't all that necessary provided we perform the recommended cooling system maintenance, specifically coolant replacement.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Sep 25, 2014, at 1:21 AM, Terry wrote:
Different materials placed in a conductive medium will result in a difference in voltage potential as charge carriers are stripped from one material
and build up on the other. This is electrolysis from nobility of materials. The removal or deposition results changes the atomic structure of the
materials. This is what causes internal corrosion in radiators and heater cores. A return path of very little resistance (ground wire) prevents the
voltage difference and subsequent electrolysis.
Aluminum radiators and heater cores are more noble than the cast iron engine block, and they will degrade fairly quickly after the coolant changes
composition in about 3-4 years because the materials are very thin. If the coolant is Dexcool, the change will occur rather suddenly, the heater core
will fill up with orange/brown mud, and the coolant will be very destructive to plastic fittings and plastic radiator tanks. The oil in the plastic
gets bleached out and then it shrinks in size and turns very brittle, finally degrading to dust.
--
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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Les, I think the recomendations are wrong. Why would a person go out of their way to place the components in the loop by grounding them rather than leaving them isolated. Still waiting for the reply of the staunch proponents.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #263030 is a reply to message #263029] |
Mon, 29 September 2014 20:09 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505 Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Unless someone can come up with proven fact that the grounding is of benefit, I think I'll keep following what has worked for most of the old high mileage vehicles I've owned. That being a coolant replacement every 2-3 years.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Sep 29, 2014, at 9:00 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
Les Burt[1
> wrote on Thu, 25 September 2014 09:59]Terry,
> If all this is a big enough concern, why are most modern vehicles not equipped with grounding features on the rads and heater cores?
>
> I am starting to develop the opinion that the grounding isn't all that necessary provided we perform the recommended cooling system maintenance,
> specifically coolant replacement.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2014, at 1:21 AM, Terry wrote:
>
> Different materials placed in a conductive medium will result in a difference in voltage potential as charge carriers are stripped from one
> material
> and build up on the other. This is electrolysis from nobility of materials. The removal or deposition results changes the atomic structure of the
> materials. This is what causes internal corrosion in radiators and heater cores. A return path of very little resistance (ground wire) prevents
> the
> voltage difference and subsequent electrolysis.
>
> Aluminum radiators and heater cores are more noble than the cast iron engine block, and they will degrade fairly quickly after the coolant
> changes
> composition in about 3-4 years because the materials are very thin. If the coolant is Dexcool, the change will occur rather suddenly, the heater
> core
> will fill up with orange/brown mud, and the coolant will be very destructive to plastic fittings and plastic radiator tanks. The oil in the
> plastic
> gets bleached out and then it shrinks in size and turns very brittle, finally degrading to dust.
> --
> Terry Kelpien
> ASE Master Technician
> 73 Glacier 260
> Smithfield, Va.
> _______________________________________________
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Les, I think the recomendations are wrong. Why would a person go out of their way to place the components in the loop by grounding them rather than
leaving them isolated. Still waiting for the reply of the staunch proponents.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #263042 is a reply to message #263029] |
Mon, 29 September 2014 22:28 |
cbryan
Messages: 451 Registered: May 2012 Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
With reference to why it is desirable putting the radiator in the conductive loop by grounding it to the engine block, and why it wouldn't be better to leave it isolated, I have this to offer: Perhaps we are not talking about the galvanic corrosion like in boats where propellers will look like swiss cheese in short order unless the zincs are present and grounded.
What about a plating scenario? Supposing the coolant becomes conductive and the radiator is grounded to the frame and the difference in potential that occurs because of the non-engine electrical drains, making for a potential difference between the block and the frame.
I want to be clear I have never actually seen an electron, or even seen evidence of such a corrosion scenario, but wish I owned more noble metals than I do.
JWIT.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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Re: [GMCnet] Sometimes Everything Goes Right [message #263050 is a reply to message #263042] |
Mon, 29 September 2014 23:42 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411 Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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The purpose of grounding is to keep all the parts at the same electrical potential. No materials in contact with the coolant can be considered isolated, they are connected by the coolant and electrical currents will flow between them through the coolant if they have different electrical potential.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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