Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Refrigerator Performance (Improving our refrigerator cooling)
| Refrigerator Performance [message #260688] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 07:15  |
Beach Coach
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 1
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We are attempting to improve the refrigerator cooling in our 1978 GMC Palm Beach;26-3 floor plan.The refrigerator is a Dometic RM 3663. We began the process of refurbishing the refrigerator cabinet and found that the condenser is above the top side vent (the bottom of the condenser is one half inch above the vent.) Please note that the 1978 GMC's had one lower side vent and one top side vent; there is no refrigerator roof vent.
Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.
Thank You,
Hugh
hugh MacDougall
Antigonish, Nova Scotia
1975 Eleganza II
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #260691 is a reply to message #260688] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 08:15  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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The air flow over the coils is important in getting proper cooling, so the designed vents may not be adequate ( though did it cool appropriately before?) to cool further. A top vent with a fan may increase the cooling in the fridge assuming the fridge is working correctly.
Does the freezer compartment reach freezing temps? What temp does the fridge reach?
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #260719 is a reply to message #260691] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 15:36 |
Beach Coach
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 1
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Hi George, after we re-installed the refrigerator into the refurbished cabinet,the refrigerator did not function as well as before. This is because the old cabinet was leaking heat into the ceiling of the GMC. The new cabinet is sealed similar to the GMC Photo site " Norcold Refrigerator Installation" by Carl S. The area around the top side vent is very warm, almost hot. At night the freezer compartment reaches freezing temps but the fridge can only get down to 58 degrees F( 10 degrees F colder than room temp ). In the day the freezer can keep ice, but not make ice and the fridge is room temp.
We are hoping that the excess heat at the top side vent can be removed by installing a refrigerator roof vent and installing a new larger lower side vent. Any advice received before we proceed with this plan would be much appreciated.
Thank You
Hugh
hugh MacDougall
Antigonish, Nova Scotia
1975 Eleganza II
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #260742 is a reply to message #260719] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 17:53 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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A small fan blowing up across the cooling coils can really improve performance. The small computer power supply fans are cheap and quiet. There are solar-powered fans on the market, but they do not move much volume of air. I have used a less than 5" diameter 110v fan behind my frig. Moves lots of air and the frig gets very cold. Sorry no temps taken, just makes ice and keeps everything cold, not cool.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #260747 is a reply to message #260688] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 19:15 |
Rick Williams
Messages: 256
Registered: July 2004
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Hugh
If you are going to run it on gas, you need to install a roof vent. The two louvered side vents on a 78 are not adequate. If you are just running it on electric, you might be able to make it better without the roof vent but I think you should put in a roof vent. You will also need to remove the foam from the back side of the louvers and replace it with screen or hardware cloth. Even with a roof vent, mine did not cool well on gas with the foam filters in the side vents. You might also install an access panel in place of the lower louver. I did not however do this to mine as I did not want to alter to look of the two louvers. But if I need to work on the back of the fridge, I will need to remove it. If you are going to use gas, you need to make sure the cabinet is sealed from the living quarters and vented out the bottom to the outside. As others have stated, a small fan can help as well but not in place of proper venting.
Rick
Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refrigerator Performance [message #260752 is a reply to message #260747] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 19:29 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Hugh,
Rick's point about venting the bottom of the refer compartment is
especially important: LPG is heavier than air so if there's a leak, it's
going to settle -- without adequate vents to the outside (into the wheel
well), it can seep into to the passenger compartment. Perhaps more
immediately catastrophic, it can accumulate to a combustible mixture and be
ignited by the refrigerator flame. Far too many RV's are destroyed by
similar fires.
IMHO, you'll never have satisfactory performance until you install a roof
vent so there will be vertical air movement over the condenser coils.
Ken H.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Rick Williams wrote:
> Hugh
>
> If you are going to run it on gas, you need to install a roof vent. The
> two louvered side vents on a 78 are not adequate. If you are just running it
> on electric, you might be able to make it better without the roof vent
> but I think you should put in a roof vent. You will also need to remove the
> foam from the back side of the louvers and replace it with screen or
> hardware cloth. Even with a roof vent, mine did not cool well on gas with
> the
> foam filters in the side vents. You might also install an access panel in
> place of the lower louver. I did not however do this to mine as I did not
> want to alter to look of the two louvers. But if I need to work on the
> back of the fridge, I will need to remove it. If you are going to use gas,
> you
> need to make sure the cabinet is sealed from the living quarters and
> vented out the bottom to the outside. As others have stated, a small fan
> can help
> as well but not in place of proper venting.
>
> Rick
>
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Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refrigerator Performance [message #260754 is a reply to message #260752] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 19:54 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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I recently replaced the original fridge in my '73 230 with a new, larger
Dometic. Ended up rebuilding the whole section of cabinetry the refer
sat in and dramatically improved how the "chimney" was designed. I'm
not sure if GM installed my fridge or if it was done by someone later
but the sloppy install meant it would barely keep food cool if it that
side of the coach was sitting in the sun at 80° outside. Considering the
cobbled mess of wiring and such I tend to think it was a PO that
installed it.
I got to test the new install a few weeks ago. That side of the coach
in direct sunlight for all of the afternoon/evening and temps around
100°. Yes, we were running at it's highest setting but everything
stayed nice and cold. I would have had water-cubes with the old refer.
I also installed a "drain" in the wheel well for propane to get out.
Some kind of 2" plumbing fitting thru the floor and wheel well liner.
Added screens on both side of that. The previous install had no propane
drain.
Follow the installation directions if you have them. If not, find the
info online.
Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
On 9/2/2014 5:29 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Hugh,
>
> Rick's point about venting the bottom of the refer compartment is
> especially important: LPG is heavier than air so if there's a leak, it's
> going to settle -- without adequate vents to the outside (into the wheel
> well), it can seep into to the passenger compartment. Perhaps more
> immediately catastrophic, it can accumulate to a combustible mixture and be
> ignited by the refrigerator flame. Far too many RV's are destroyed by
> similar fires.
>
> IMHO, you'll never have satisfactory performance until you install a roof
> vent so there will be vertical air movement over the condenser coils.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Rick Williams wrote:
>
>> Hugh
>>
>> If you are going to run it on gas, you need to install a roof vent. The
>> two louvered side vents on a 78 are not adequate. If you are just running it
>> on electric, you might be able to make it better without the roof vent
>> but I think you should put in a roof vent. You will also need to remove the
>> foam from the back side of the louvers and replace it with screen or
>> hardware cloth. Even with a roof vent, mine did not cool well on gas with
>> the
>> foam filters in the side vents. You might also install an access panel in
>> place of the lower louver. I did not however do this to mine as I did not
>> want to alter to look of the two louvers. But if I need to work on the
>> back of the fridge, I will need to remove it. If you are going to use gas,
>> you
>> need to make sure the cabinet is sealed from the living quarters and
>> vented out the bottom to the outside. As others have stated, a small fan
>> can help
>> as well but not in place of proper venting.
>>
>> Rick
>>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refrigerator Performance [message #260771 is a reply to message #260691] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 21:01 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Is there a thermistor attached to the fins inside the refrigerator?
If so you can move the thermistor UP for a colder referigerator, DOWN
for a warmer refrigerator.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:15 AM, George Rudawsky wrote:
> The air flow over the coils is important in getting proper cooling, so the designed vents may not be adequate ( though did it cool appropriately
> before?) to cool further. A top vent with a fan may increase the cooling in the fridge assuming the fridge is working correctly.
>
> Does the freezer compartment reach freezing temps? What temp does the fridge reach?
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Ray Erspamer
78 Royale - "The Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMCRoyale@gmail.com
414-484-9431
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #260939 is a reply to message #260719] |
Thu, 04 September 2014 23:17 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Beach Coach wrote on Tue, 02 September 2014 14:36Hi George, after we re-installed the refrigerator into the refurbished cabinet,the refrigerator did not function as well as before. This is because the old cabinet was leaking heat into the ceiling of the GMC. The new cabinet is sealed similar to the GMC Photo site " Norcold Refrigerator Installation" by Carl S. The area around the top side vent is very warm, almost hot. At night the freezer compartment reaches freezing temps but the fridge can only get down to 58 degrees F( 10 degrees F colder than room temp ). In the day the freezer can keep ice, but not make ice and the fridge is room temp.
We are hoping that the excess heat at the top side vent can be removed by installing a refrigerator roof vent and installing a new larger lower side vent. Any advice received before we proceed with this plan would be much appreciated.
Thank You
Hugh
Originally, the 78's had electric fridges with upper louvers and no roof vent. When converted to propane, the upper louvers have to be blocked off on the inside, and a roof vent needs to be installed. When going to propane, a lower door is usually cut in the side like all the others.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #260953 is a reply to message #260688] |
Fri, 05 September 2014 06:41 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Mine (Nrocold three - way) cools ok, but the first time I ran it on propane after I got my CO alarm, it went off in the middle of the night, and showed 95ppm of CO. I swapped to electric and the meter eventually went to zero. So, I'm not using it on propane till I seal the cabinet and add a fan which will cycle on with the burner.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refrigerator Performance [message #260999 is a reply to message #260752] |
Fri, 05 September 2014 14:54 |
<rallymaster
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2014
Karma: 2
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Johnny, which model Norcold do you have?
One of the Fridge manufacturers recommends cutting a 1 1/2" hole in the
bottom of the rear of the fridge compartment for any propane leaks to run
out of that area, if your lower vent is not at the bottom of the fridge.
All of the GMCs I've seen fall in that category. And don't forget to
cover the hole with 1/4 mesh galvanized critter filter. I think you're
also supposed to cut it through the top of the wheel cover, and stuff a
piece ot 1 1/2" tubing through it. That's assuming your fridge is above
the rear wheel. I've forgotten which GMC you have.
ronC
=========================
On Fri, 05 Sep 2014 05:41:51 -0600 Johnny Bridges
writes:
> Mine (Nrocold three - way) cools ok, but the first time I ran it on
> propane after I got my CO alarm, it went off in the middle of the
> night, and
> showed 95ppm of CO. I swapped to electric and the meter eventually
> went to zero. So, I'm not using it on propane till I seal the
> cabinet and add a
> fan which will cycle on with the burner.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about
> my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
> _______________________________________________
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Ron & Linda Clark
1978 Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #261061 is a reply to message #260688] |
Sat, 06 September 2014 09:55 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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'tisn't propane, it's propane combustion product. The fridge was replaced about 6 years ago, and I suspect not a lot of attention was placed on closing off the back of the cabinet space before it went in since the original was electric only. And, I suspect there's been a minor amount of CO in there all the time I've run it, it's just that the alarm is now in the coach and lets me know. Fan and sealer and I'll test it in Orlando.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refrigerator Performance [message #261067 is a reply to message #260752] |
Sat, 06 September 2014 10:58 |
<rallymaster
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2014
Karma: 2
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Ooops, didn't read closely enough. Got some exercise, jumping to a
conclusion.
You'll still need the drain holes behind the fridge, though.
ron
On Sat, 06 Sep 2014 08:55:05 -0600 Johnny Bridges
writes:
> 'tisn't propane, it's propane combustion product. The fridge was
> replaced about 6 years ago, and I suspect not a lot of attention was
> placed on
> closing off the back of the cabinet space before it went in since
> the original was electric only. And, I suspect there's been a minor
> amount of CO in
> there all the time I've run it, it's just that the alarm is now in
> the coach and lets me know. Fan and sealer and I'll test it in
> Orlando.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about
> my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Ron & Linda Clark
1978 Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #261085 is a reply to message #260688] |
Sat, 06 September 2014 15:48 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I went out and had a look. Small drain holes, but really not needed - the fridge has a drain pan inside which catches condensate.
However, inspection shows a small upper vent, and a lower door vent added after the stripes. Upper vent is way too small for a burner inside there. Fortunately, I have a stock of various 12V continuous duty fans. So, I have a 150CFM one which wikll be wired to the gas solenoid and bolted to the upper vent. If the alarm still goes off, I'll hack a hole in the roof and put a bigger vent.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
Braselton GA
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #282837 is a reply to message #260688] |
Wed, 22 July 2015 14:21 |
Beach Coach
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 1
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Thank you for your advice and suggestions regarding our refrigerator installation upgrade. Last September we installed a refrigerator roof vent, blocked off the upper louvered vent, installed a two inch diameter floor vent into the wheel well and sealed the refrigerator cabinet from the interior of the coach. This past week as outdoor temperatures went to 90 F we had our first opportunity to test the refrigerator. On AC the freezer is reading 8 F and the fridge is reading 41 F. On propane the freezer is reading 6 F and the fridge is 40 F This is a great improvement and your advice and suggestions are much appreciated. In the future we plan to install a roof vent fan and a side vent as close to the bottom of the refrigerator as possible. For others who plan to upgrade their refrigerator cabinet we suggest you read up on the "stack effect". Cool airflow should enter the refrigerator cabinet at the bottom or as close to the bottom of the cabinet as possible and warm airflow should exit the refrigerator cabinet at the top of the cabinet.
Hugh MacDougall, Antigonish, Nova Scotia.
hugh MacDougall
Antigonish, Nova Scotia
1975 Eleganza II
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| Re: Refrigerator Performance [message #283003 is a reply to message #260688] |
Fri, 24 July 2015 07:53 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I just changed out my all electric norcold for a propane/110 dometic rm2652 fridge. I intend to do a quick write up with some photos.
The venting is important, and I found that you need to hunt up a few different manuals, to make sure you have all the correct information. The basics thought as discussed here, is to get air vented in the bottom, and out the roof. a propane fridge in our coaches, cannot operate properly without a roof vent, because the top of the coil is taller by 1-2 inches then our sidewall.
The other thing not mentioned here is making sure the propane is operating correctly. It is easy to pull out the oraface, make sure it is clean. clean the burner, and make sure you have a good 11 inch column pressure into the fridge. I have fixed 2 fridge concerns in the past 5 years that is due to just a bad propane regulator. They had only 9-10 reading at the fridge. One we replaced the regulator and got to 11, the other had an adjustable regulator, and had to reach in the front with a screw driver and turn the inside of the regulator to get the gas pressure normal. Most propane stuff in our coach you do not notice that little difference in pressure, but the fridge is more sensitive.
amazon is your friend, and here are a couple products(no, I do not work for amazon):
to test your propane pressure:
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Instruments-GPK035-Pressure/dp/B001TOFRNG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1437742203&sr=8-4&keywords=propane+pr essure+gauge
I installed a thermostatic fan in my roof vent. computer fans and such work well, but a complete kit is here with thermostat control, and switch:
http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-A10-2618VP-FridgeCool-Volt-Exhaust/dp/B002N5YDG2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1437742266&sr=8-3&keywords=rv+fridg e+fan
I also bought one of these, claiming it helps cool down the fridge faster. I am not sure how well it works, but it also was not that expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-A10-2606-FridgeCool-11-28-Switch/dp/B002N5W8Q4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437742266&sr=8-1&keywords=rv+fridge+ fan
and since I was on a buying spree for Valterra products, I bought one of these, so I can always know what the fridge is doing each time I get out a beverage:
http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-A10-2620VP-Fridge-Freezer-Thermometer/dp/B00CCYW9HO/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1437742352&sr=8-14&keywords=rv+ fridge+accessories
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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