Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
| What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259856] |
Sat, 23 August 2014 19:24  |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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I have a Switch Pitch transmission, switch is set in the "high range" or normal range, Ragusa finned pan, auxiliary cooler that is not connected to the radiator, 60mph, 80 degree ambient temperature.
Want to make sense of the Art Carr temp gauge.
Was running about 220 when moving, was approaching 260 in stop and go traffic. 260 is the bottom of the red, but was mostly running at the bottom of the yellow when moving.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259859 is a reply to message #259856] |
Sat, 23 August 2014 19:42  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Jared,
I don't have a switch pitch but running in High Range, your
transmission should operate about like a non-switcher. I run an
aluminum radiator without an external cooler, but with a Toronado
towing package oil pan which is fitted with air cooling tubes. That
combination yields about the same temperatures I had with an OEM
radiator and external cooler.
That is, the ATF temperature measured in the pan runs, in conditions
similar to your specified 60 mph and 80*F, at about 140*F for 2-3
hours, steadily rising to slightly below the engine water temperature,
or about 190*F. I no longer monitor it, but when I did, the
temperature of the ATF coming out of the torque converter enroute to
the cooler ran 40*F-50*F above the pan temperature. Under load, that
temperature rose MUCH faster than that in the pan.
The best reference I've found for transmission cooling information is
the Chevy P-30 Chassis Manual, available here:
http://bdub.net/factory-manuals.html
The transmission cooler appendix has a lot of valuable information
which should be as relevant to the GMC as to the P-30; most of it was
probably originally composed for the TH-400.
Ken H.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Jared wrote:
> I have a Switch Pitch transmission, switch is set in the "high range" or normal range, Ragusa finned pan, auxiliary cooler that is not connected to
> the radiator, 60mph, 80 degree ambient temperature.
>
> Want to make sense of the Art Carr temp gauge.
>
> Was running about 220 when moving, was approaching 260 in stop and go traffic. 260 is the bottom of the red, but was mostly running at the bottom of
> the yellow when moving.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259861 is a reply to message #259856] |
Sat, 23 August 2014 20:11 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jared,
I have two switch pitch transmissions both built by Manny; the one that is to be installed in Double Trouble has Power Drive chain
sprockets. The on to be installed in The Blue Streak has standard chain gears. Manny recommended running Mobil 1 Full Synthetic
Transmission Fluid in switch pitch transmissions as they will run hotter in the "switched" mode.
Here's a link to charts that show trans temp vs. fluid / trans life:
https://www.google.com/search?q=transmission+temp+charts&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=kjv5U--2Js-dygSMoYCgBQ& ved=0CB0Qs
AQ&biw=1137&bih=570&dpr=0.9
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Jared
I have a Switch Pitch transmission, switch is set in the "high range" or normal range, Ragusa finned pan, auxiliary cooler that is
not connected to the radiator, 60mph, 80 degree ambient temperature.
Want to make sense of the Art Carr temp gauge.
Was running about 220 when moving, was approaching 260 in stop and go traffic. 260 is the bottom of the red, but was mostly running
at the bottom of the yellow when moving.
Jared
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259863 is a reply to message #259856] |
Sat, 23 August 2014 20:33 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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I appreciate the info. A couple of weeks ago we drove the coach up to Baker lake which has a couple of uphill pulls and I never saw the trans temp gauge rise above 160. I checked the fluid when I got home from my trip today and it was full at the hot mark and still bright red.
I grabbed the cooler under the coach and it was warm but didn't feel as hot as the gauge was saying. If it was 220 I shouldn't be able to hold onto it for very long.
Am thinking about taking the coach on a run and hitting the pan with my IR temp gauge to see if the temp agrees with the gauge.
Jared
NEVERMIND.... Just figured out the problem. I installed a set of Pioneer 6x9 TSA-6908 200w 1993 vintage speakers this morning. I have pictures but haven't up loaded them to my photobucket account yet.
They are the problem, pulled the gauge away from the speaker and the needle gets lower, move it closer and it gets higher.
I never had an issue to begin with, I didn't take into account the recent changes I made.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259872 is a reply to message #259868] |
Sat, 23 August 2014 23:12 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Jared,
With reference to your getting normal readings from your transmission temperature gauge after noticing that the magnets on your new speakers were affecting them before moving the gauge out of their influence, that's a great job of fixing the problem. Maybe Ken H needs to move his EGT readout away from the compass or his subwoofer.  He is getting pretty high readings. Can't wait until he gets a handle on the EGT. I would second the idea about making sure you used synthetic transmission fluid at your next change. Pretty easy to change with that Ragusa pan. Bruce Roe has an automatic Switch Pitch controller he may still sell. It is automatic.
Quoting Larry70GS writing about the Bruce Roe controller on the Buick V8 forum: "It has 3 separate timers. One for vacuum, one for the kick down switch, and one for the brake pedal. I have mine wired with a 3 position switch, so I can have low stall, hi stall, or automatic (box control) One timer is activated by the brake switch. Step on the brake, you get high stall. Take your foot off the brake, timer counts down to 0 and shuts off the converter. There is a vacuum switch. Drop below 4" of vacuum, back to high stall. There are two options here, low stall return when vacuum is restored, or strict timer control. Then the kick down switch activates the full throttle timer. This activates high stall for a different amount of time, then switches back to low stall(Drag Racing Mode). All timers are adjustable from 3.2 seconds to 23 seconds. I have my brake timer set to 3.2 seconds, the full throttle timer to 6 seconds, and the vacuum switch set for low stall when vacuum returns (10 seconds if it doesn't).
"I like the box a lot. It is very easy to adjust and install. Works great. For normal driving in traffic, I switch it off so that I have low stall all the time. I found that my 12" converter's high stall stall is a bit too loose for stop and go traffic. For aggressive driving and sticky tires, the automatic mode is great. The box is 160.00. I think for what it does, that is a fair price. A much more sophisticated control than the factory system." That ends the quote from the other forum.
Note that with our RV's we might want to not disable the box in traffic. Make the timings longer rather than shorter. This fellow I quoted has a Buick Grand Sport with a 455, so in a few seconds he is going how fast he needs to go on the street, and he has greater traction issues than we potentially have. It takes longer for our RV's to accelerate and that is why I think the switch pitch transmission can provide the GMC motorhome greater benefit than the drag race cars.
It looks like the benefit over the stock setup basically is that Bruce's controller provides a low vacuum shift automatically, a take off mode automatically, and those timers keep the transmission from rapidly shifting back and forth. Pretty slick. I don't know if the sweet control you would achieve would be worth the price. I don't know that the price is even the same nowadays. It would save mileage per gallon in cruise in low stall, and waste some energy in high stall, partially recovered by more efficient running of the engine close to torque peak. There may be some benefit by lowering the engine braking by going to high stall right after punching the brake. Don't really know about that.
I know you like to keep things stock if possible, but you have already departed from stock having the switch pitch.
Just reading what Ken H wrote, that Toronado pan with the cooling passages for air seems like a trick deal. Finding one is a trick, too. Ragusa pan is more available, and supports a vendor.
Glad you solved the problem. I don't remember having ever read about anyone else mentioning keeping magnets away from gauges.
Best,
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259968 is a reply to message #259856] |
Sun, 24 August 2014 21:52 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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lotsofspareparts wrote on Sat, 23 August 2014 18:24I have a Switch Pitch transmission, switch is set in the "high range" or normal range, Ragusa finned pan, auxiliary cooler that is not connected to the radiator, 60mph, 80 degree ambient temperature.
Want to make sense of the Art Carr temp gauge.
Was running about 220 when moving, was approaching 260 in stop and go traffic. 260 is the bottom of the red, but was mostly running at the bottom of the yellow when moving.
Jared
It should be the same as your coolant temp but never more than 270.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #259978 is a reply to message #259968] |
Sun, 24 August 2014 23:31 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 24 August 2014 19:52lotsofspareparts wrote on Sat, 23 August 2014 18:24I have a Switch Pitch transmission, switch is set in the "high range" or normal range, Ragusa finned pan, auxiliary cooler that is not connected to the radiator, 60mph, 80 degree ambient temperature.
Want to make sense of the Art Carr temp gauge.
Was running about 220 when moving, was approaching 260 in stop and go traffic. 260 is the bottom of the red, but was mostly running at the bottom of the yellow when moving.
Jared
It should be the same as your coolant temp but never more than 270.
We drove back down to Lynnwood today, saw 160 temps while moving and 180ish while in stop and go traffic.
Back to normal now.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260317 is a reply to message #259856] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 07:00 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I made the misteak of taking a magnetic mount flashlight flying one evening, and tossed it on the cowl over the instrument panel. The mag compass never wavered afterwards the whole flight, but I sure knew where the flashlight was!
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
brasel;ton ga
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260319 is a reply to message #260317] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 07:16 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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An escape and evasion training partner and I wandered all over the Nevada
mountains near Stead AFB, over skree slopes, etc. one night in 1965,
totally lost. Why? 'Cause we held the flashlight up over our compass to
see which way to go! :-(
Didn't even get to kill & eat the porcupine we saw because we were so late
getting near the rendezvous point! (Most clouds do have a silver lining.)
:-)
Ken H.
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
>
> I made the misteak of taking a magnetic mount flashlight flying one
> evening, and tossed it on the cowl over the instrument panel. The mag
> compass
> never wavered afterwards the whole flight, but I sure knew where the
> flashlight was!
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260363 is a reply to message #259856] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 14:58 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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lotsofspareparts wrote on Sat, 23 August 2014 17:24I have a Switch Pitch transmission, switch is set in the "high range" or normal range, Ragusa finned pan, auxiliary cooler that is not connected to the radiator, 60mph, 80 degree ambient temperature.
Want to make sense of the Art Carr temp gauge.
Was running about 220 when moving, was approaching 260 in stop and go traffic. 260 is the bottom of the red, but was mostly running at the bottom of the yellow when moving.
Jared
Jared,
I have a SwitchPitch and your numbers seem a high but still within range. Lots of times mine is hardly off the mark. When not switched a SP should actually run cooler because the stall on the torque converter is lower; less slippage. Stop an go traffic can raise the temperature as there is lots of slippage happening.
It also depends on where the temp is taken. Mine is in the return line after the radiator and trans cooler. That makes some foam at the mouth but that is where B&M ( I remember them from my teen years) said to put it and they made the gauge. My coach also has larger lines going to and from the transmission... Manny insisted. I get pretty excited when I see mine approach 220 because I figure things are a lot hotter in the torque converter.
It might not to hurt to test the Switch Pitch. Manny had me do the following when he installed it: Put it in drive, switched. Let your foot off the brake. It did not move the coach any appreciable amount. We put it in park, turned off the switch, put it back in drive and let the brake off and the coach instantly started a forward crawl. In traffic, when just sitting I have been known to switch mine so it is not dragging so hard... I figure less heat. I put it in normal the second I start to go again.
Good luck with your coach.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260365 is a reply to message #260363] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 15:11 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726
Registered: May 2014
Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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My sensor is located in the pan facing forward.
Have tested the switch pitch, use it every time we go anywhere. I love it and the wife is figuring it out as well.
Wish we were taking her out this weekend, we are on our way to Winthrop here in a few hours with the Dodge and our travel trailer. Will be back Tuesday evening. Not ready to take the coach on such a long haul yet though, still have to replace all the engine compartment rubber items and the pass over Hwy 20 is a really hard pull with some very steep up and downhill terrain.
Have a great Labor Day everyone!!
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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| Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260382 is a reply to message #259859] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 18:55 |
Len Novak
Messages: 676
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Karma: -3
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All that flying backwards stuff................
Len and Pat
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule@Roadrunner.Com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 4:53 PM
To: GMC Mail List
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
I wanted to go to James Connally AFB in Waco for RIO school after I
graduated from Navigator School at Harlingen AFB in March 1962, but there
weren't but a couple of slots. Went to EWO school at Mather instead. I
knew I'd end up in SAC and if so, wanted an UPWARD ejection seat! Probably
wouldn't have been a good idea as it turned out I was highly susceptible to
vertigo and was medically grounded after about 3 years in the B-52s.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: hend4800@bellsouth.net
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 19:11:46 -0400
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
>
> Yep, F-89J at McCoy and F-101B at Charleston.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:27 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald
> wrote:
>
>> Backseater in Scorpions?
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Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Las Vegas, NV new email: B52sRule@Gmail.com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
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| Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260383 is a reply to message #260374] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 18:53 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I wanted to go to James Connally AFB in Waco for RIO school after I graduated from Navigator School at Harlingen AFB in March 1962, but there weren't but a couple of slots. Went to EWO school at Mather instead. I knew I'd end up in SAC and if so, wanted an UPWARD ejection seat! Probably wouldn't have been a good idea as it turned out I was highly susceptible to vertigo and was medically grounded after about 3 years in the B-52s.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: hend4800@bellsouth.net
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 19:11:46 -0400
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
>
> Yep, F-89J at McCoy and F-101B at Charleston.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:27 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald
> wrote:
>
>> Backseater in Scorpions?
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| Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp? [message #260384 is a reply to message #260382] |
Thu, 28 August 2014 19:00 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Not in the B-52s up through the F models. G and H had EWO riding backwards.
Mac
> From: B52Rule@RoadRunner.Com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:55:25 -0700
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
>
> All that flying backwards stuff................
>
> Len and Pat
> 1978 GMC Kingsley
> The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
> Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule@Roadrunner.Com
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
>
> www.bdub.net/novak/
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 4:53 PM
> To: GMC Mail List
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
>
> I wanted to go to James Connally AFB in Waco for RIO school after I
> graduated from Navigator School at Harlingen AFB in March 1962, but there
> weren't but a couple of slots. Went to EWO school at Mather instead. I
> knew I'd end up in SAC and if so, wanted an UPWARD ejection seat! Probably
> wouldn't have been a good idea as it turned out I was highly susceptible to
> vertigo and was medically grounded after about 3 years in the B-52s.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ______________
> *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> *--OO--[]---O-*
>
>
>
>
>> From: hend4800@bellsouth.net
>> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 19:11:46 -0400
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is considered to be a normal transmission temp?
>>
>> Yep, F-89J at McCoy and F-101B at Charleston.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:27 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Backseater in Scorpions?
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