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| [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258047] |
Thu, 07 August 2014 10:18  |
Dave Motorhome
Messages: 175
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 2
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To help limit my destruction, I thought I would pose a question to the
group:
My bathroom lights are not working, I removed the lights and verified they
are working.. I tested the 12 volt cable.. no power.
So on that “circuit” the light above my table is the only one working.
I think… I need to get to the junction point where the lines from the fuse
panel split to the runs. I looked through the book 24-b has a sketch of the
lay out, but I could not find the junction box. I removed the ceiling in
the hall and loosened the ceiling in front of the fridge. But no junction
was found. Is the junction box above the bath unit? Above fridge?.. I would
hate to have to remove either to fix the lights.
--
David Paliotta
75 Glenbrook
Tulsa, OK
http://75glenbrook.googlepages.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258048 is a reply to message #258047] |
Thu, 07 August 2014 11:13  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I can't answer your question but if it is in a difficult location it may be easier to remove the upper cabinet to gain access and snake a new 12volt line from the rear of the refrigerator.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258052 is a reply to message #258050] |
Thu, 07 August 2014 11:59 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Dave Motorhome wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 10:18To help limit my destruction, I thought I would pose a question to the group:
My bathroom lights are not working, I removed the lights and verified they are working.. I tested the 12 volt cable.. no power.
So on that "circuit" the light above my table is the only one working.
I think... I need to get to the junction point where the lines from the fuse panel split to the runs. I looked through the book 24-b has a sketch of the lay out, but I could not find the junction box. I removed the ceiling in the hall and loosened the ceiling in front of the fridge. But no junction was found. Is the junction box above the bath unit? Above fridge?.. I would hate to have to remove either to fix the lights.
--
David Paliotta A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 12:33This is an ignorant supposition, but low voltage stuff does not have to comply with NEC. Are the junctions even in a box?
Dave and A,
The low voltage does not have to be in a box.
But if my 73-23 is any example, the light circuits are often "daisy chained" at the nearby fixture. This became apparent when one of them came loose. What is interesting, is that this is very close to the way that the wiring diagrams show it.
Dave,
There are devices called "Circuit Tracers". There is a functional cheapy available at HF. It will put a signal on the wires that you can follow and hopefully find where the signal is lost.
Matt - Waiting for a pair of new 225-16s
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258075 is a reply to message #258057] |
Thu, 07 August 2014 14:23 |
Dave Motorhome
Messages: 175
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I can check the trace tonight. Will have to purchase the tool.
As for the wire, I did clean and trim the wires to make sure I had good
copper.
It seems that the circuit #5 has 1 wire going from the fuse block behind
the cabinet up over the ceiling. At some point that wire has to be daisy
chained, to feed the power side to all the fixtures. Also at some point it
has to be given a ground. I did see what seems to be a ground point at the
belt line behind/next to the water heater, would that be the right area?
So to test I should ground my multi meter and then test the wire to verify
if I have a hot or ground issue, Right?
I appreciate the messages,
--
David Paliotta
75 Glenbrook
Tulsa, OK
http://75glenbrook.googlepages.com/
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 12:21 PM, A. wrote:
> Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 11:59
>> Dave and A,
>
> Sounds like Matt is telling you to check the upstream fixtures/switches
> for loose/corroded connections.
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258099 is a reply to message #258097] |
Thu, 07 August 2014 16:58 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Dave Motorhome wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 15:28harbor freight in Tulsa did not have a circuit tester, however when i got
home i checked the lines to a known ground. On the multi meter i tested one
line at a time, both lines showed power... hmm so i venture to guess i have
a grounding issue?
David Paliotta
75 Glenbrook
Tulsa, OK
http://75glenbrook.googlepages.com/
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 2:23 PM, David wrote:
> I can check the trace tonight. Will have to purchase the tool.
>
>
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Dave, when I installed LED pads in all of my interior lights, I noticed that some of them had originally been wired in reverse polarity
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258111 is a reply to message #258109] |
Thu, 07 August 2014 18:28 |
Dave Motorhome
Messages: 175
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I dont think its reverse polarity, both lines are hot,
I put the black meter on the coach belt-line (grounded area) and take the
positive tester and touch either line it reads 12 volts.
Now i am trying to figure out why? and how to fix it..
--
David Paliotta
75 Glenbrook
Tulsa, OK
http://75glenbrook.googlepages.com/
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 17:58
>> Dave, when I installed LED pads in all of my interior lights, I noticed
> that some of them had originally been wired in reverse polarity
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258149 is a reply to message #258111] |
Fri, 08 August 2014 01:05 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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That is a normal reading if the ground is open. The aluminum body of the coach is the master ground. all you have to do is connect one of those lights to the body (ground) and probably all of them will now work again.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258254 is a reply to message #258047] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 09:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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My biggest problem has been dirty switches in the fixtures. PIA to clean but once cleaned the flicker goes away. I replaced the 12V fuse block, the original was unreliable - the rivets had loosened.
-0-johnny
76 23' transmode norris
Braselton GA
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258261 is a reply to message #258109] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 10:36 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 17:21Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 17:58Dave, when I installed LED pads in all of my interior lights, I noticed that some of them had originally been wired in reverse polarity
Bob,
Half of my interior lights and all front clearance lights were backwards.....
So, make the LEDs light before you button it up.
Matt
Luckily the plugs were reversible so I just unplugged and turned them 180.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258270 is a reply to message #258254] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 11:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Sounds like a good time to remind everyone, especially newbies, to go thru
all the electrical stuff to clean, lubricate, and/or refurbish connections.
The 12 VDC circuits carry relatively high currents so that even a little
resistance can cause significant voltage drops and consequent problems. If
the fuse panel has loose clips, replace it. If the contacts are corroded,
clean them -- a 1/4" dowel wrapped in fine sandpaper works well. For a bit
of extra precaution against future problems, add a bit of Oxygard or other
connection protectant to each contact point. If your battery clamps are
corroded, clean them up with baking soda solution, then brush them bright
before reconnecting them to the batteries. Coat them with something, if
only Vaseline, to keep the inevitable acid spray from polluting them. The
surest way to have on-the-road electrical problems is to ignore bad cables.
Even with the price of copper, a few new cables are cheap insurance.
Especially important and easily overlooked is the 120 vac Circuit Breaker
(CB) box. Over time, the constant heating and contraction of the
connections in there can cause seriously high resistances. So, FIRST
disconnect shore power and inverters, then remove the CB box cover. Unseat
the CBs and clean both the male and female contacts, perhaps even adding
Oxygard when reassembling them. Loosen and retighten every screw securing
wires (even add Oxygard if you're fanatical). That will restore bright
copper, gas-tight, connections. Even if you don't have problems currently,
this is worth doing every few years -- I've found connections in
"unmolested" coaches that were finger tight.
HTH,
Ken H.
On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> My biggest problem has been dirty switches in the fixtures. PIA to clean
> but once cleaned the flicker goes away. I replaced the 12V fuse block,
> the
>
> original was unreliable - the rivets had loosened.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258289 is a reply to message #258270] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 15:57 |
Dave Motorhome
Messages: 175
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I wanted to conclude the issue:
to recap, 3 of the 4 lights on my 12 volt circuit #5 were not working. the
only light that worked was the one over the kitchen table.
On the affected lights, both lines (ground and hot) on the bathroom, hall
and right hand seatee reading light, were showing 12 volts.. so i did not
have any ground..
to trouble shoot i tried to track down the "grounding" area, seems that it
is behind fridge, looks like almost behind the porch light.. not very
accessible.
then i was told to just ground one of the wires.. blow the fuse..
so today i removed all the fixtures to remove the aft bathroom lights. to
gain access to the aft light wires i had to remove the back wall. once the
affected fixtures were detached, i retested the lines.. all good!, so i
ASSUME that the aft bathroom fixture switch failed and allowed current to
travel down the ground?
if this is the case,
why did i not blow a fuse?
why did the house battery not drain?
also,
has anyone just replaced the switches in the bathroom lights?
thanks in advance.
David Paliotta
75 Glenbrook
Tulsa, OK
http://75glenbrook.googlepages.com/
On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Sounds like a good time to remind everyone, especially newbies, to go thru
> all the electrical stuff to clean, lubricate, and/or refurbish connections.
>
>
> The 12 VDC circuits carry relatively high currents so that even a little
> resistance can cause significant voltage drops and consequent problems. If
> the fuse panel has loose clips, replace it. If the contacts are corroded,
> clean them -- a 1/4" dowel wrapped in fine sandpaper works well. For a bit
> of extra precaution against future problems, add a bit of Oxygard or other
> connection protectant to each contact point. If your battery clamps are
> corroded, clean them up with baking soda solution, then brush them bright
> before reconnecting them to the batteries. Coat them with something, if
> only Vaseline, to keep the inevitable acid spray from polluting them. The
> surest way to have on-the-road electrical problems is to ignore bad cables.
> Even with the price of copper, a few new cables are cheap insurance.
>
> Especially important and easily overlooked is the 120 vac Circuit Breaker
> (CB) box. Over time, the constant heating and contraction of the
> connections in there can cause seriously high resistances. So, FIRST
> disconnect shore power and inverters, then remove the CB box cover. Unseat
> the CBs and clean both the male and female contacts, perhaps even adding
> Oxygard when reassembling them. Loosen and retighten every screw securing
> wires (even add Oxygard if you're fanatical). That will restore bright
> copper, gas-tight, connections. Even if you don't have problems currently,
> this is worth doing every few years -- I've found connections in
> "unmolested" coaches that were finger tight.
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258293 is a reply to message #258075] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 16:08 |
lance
Messages: 190
Registered: December 2004
Location: Vancouver, WA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I had this problem and if I recall, the issue and the junction are on the hall light. Pull it down and check it out. Hope my memory is working for a change. Mind like a steel cage. Nothing gets in.
1974 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258307 is a reply to message #258047] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 19:55 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Lance - you are right the hall light on mine WAS the ground. 1977 palm beach. I replaced all of the lights (except bathroom) with new modern white fixtures. they are all plastic. so not grounding to the mount screws.
when I removed the hall everything on that #5 circuit went out. the ground for that is indeed behind the fridge.
Once I pulled the "medicine cabinet"/rear wall out of the bathroom I found that the ground wire screw had NEVER been tightened. it was a bit of a feat to twist my left arm...no my right arm in behind the fridge wall and turn a stubby screw driver to tighten the ground. everything works great now!!
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12 volt power to bathroom lights [message #258325 is a reply to message #258047] |
Sat, 09 August 2014 22:01 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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There's a lot of good advice here. I had to look at all my wiring and the fuse block in particular. Grounds come loose, fuses lose connection, mice chew through wires, and POs change things, so it is best to do a thorough check on your own and when you get stumped just ask here and you'll get a lot of knowledge to help you out. Once the inside wiring is made good then you get to start on the outside lighting...most of my outside lighting was just bad connections that needed cleaning up , even the headlights were not making a good connection. The left rear side marker and the light over the license plate were the only ones that had been chewed through by mice luckily. Good luck and hope you get her on the road soon....Glenn
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
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