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Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257956] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:08 Go to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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I am about to crawl under to install the Facet electric pump in the fuel line along the frame rail. Some have done this on the auxiliary tank line, switched by the tank selector toggle on the dash. Are there specific (...then connect the green wire...) instructions for hooking up the switch? I am nearly ignorant of circuitry, but this one ought to be easy, right?
Is the alternative to install the pump downstream from the selector valve, and wire a new switch on the dash?
Anything else I should know or do before the crawl?

Thanks.


1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257957 is a reply to message #257956] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Marten is currently offline  Jeff Marten   United States
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I installed mine just in front of the selector switch. I ran the power wire to the glove box fuse block to a connection marked IGN. Whenever the key is turned to the RUN position, the pump runs. No need for a switch, unless you're leaving the mech pump in the line. I replaced all the fuel hose from the selector switch to carb, with all hose from pump to carb contained in a heat sleeve. Mech pump is still installed, but out of the loop.
If you're keeping the mech pump, it'll be far easier to install the electric pump in the AUX line, run the + to the selector switch power wire.


> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 10:08:48 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jeff.sugheir@gmail.com
> Subject: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation
>
> I am about to crawl under to install the Facet electric pump in the fuel line along the frame rail. Some have done this on the auxiliary tank line,
> switched by the tank selector toggle on the dash. Are there specific (...then connect the green wire...) instructions for hooking up the switch? I
> am nearly ignorant of circuitry, but this one ought to be easy, right?
> Is the alternative to install the pump downstream from the selector valve, and wire a new switch on the dash?
> Anything else I should know or do before the crawl?
>
> Thanks.
> --
> 1973/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers & Paterson distributor,1 ton front, 4 bags back, Precision Steering Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream 1964 Falcon 'Vert 1980 Bradley GTE 1999 Chevy Tahoe 2005 Saab 93 Aero 1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400 1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257959 is a reply to message #257956] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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xplorid wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 09:08
I am about to crawl under to install the Facet electric pump in the fuel line along the frame rail. Some have done this on the auxiliary tank line, switched by the tank selector toggle on the dash. Are there specific (...then connect the green wire...) instructions for hooking up the switch? I am nearly ignorant of circuitry, but this one ought to be easy, right?
Is the alternative to install the pump downstream from the selector valve, and wire a new switch on the dash?
Anything else I should know or do before the crawl?

Thanks.

If you plan on retaining the mechanical pump in the system the proper place for the electric pump would be between the auxiliary tank and the selector valve. Then splice the fuel pump hot wire into the selector wire. The pump will run in the aux. position. Don't forget to support the frame while under the coach safety first.


Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook

[Updated on: Wed, 06 August 2014 11:26]

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Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257963 is a reply to message #257957] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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Thanks Jeff, read your post on the VAPOR LOCK thread recently. For the time being, the mech pump stays as primary, with the electric pump as a back up in case of VL.

So - id the power wire on selector valve and connect the pump hot wire there, and black ground wire on the pump connected to the frame - that's what I am about to do.

That means that there is 12v to the tank selector valve only when the toggle is switched to AUX.

This sure beats going to the office today.


1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257965 is a reply to message #257959] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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Aux tank is the front tank, right?

1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257966 is a reply to message #257965] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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xplorid wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 09:32
Aux tank is the front tank, right?


Yes


Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257967 is a reply to message #257965] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Marten is currently offline  Jeff Marten   United States
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That I'm not sure of.
Your wiring sounds right.

> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 10:32:34 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jeff.sugheir@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation
>
> Aux tank is the front tank, right?
> --
> 1973/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers & Paterson distributor, Al radiator, 1 ton front, 4 bags back, Precision Steering Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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1985 Gulf Stream 34' Sun Stream 1964 Falcon 'Vert 1980 Bradley GTE 1999 Chevy Tahoe 2005 Saab 93 Aero 1987 Suzuki Intruder 1400 1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257968 is a reply to message #257957] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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Jeff Marten wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 09:17
I installed mine just in front of the selector switch. I ran the power wire to the glove box fuse block to a connection marked IGN. Whenever the key is turned to the RUN position, the pump runs. No need for a switch, unless you're leaving the mech pump in the line. I replaced all the fuel hose from the selector switch to carb, with all hose from pump to carb contained in a heat sleeve. Mech pump is still installed, but out of the loop.
If you're keeping the mech pump, it'll be far easier to install the electric pump in the AUX line, run the + to the selector switch power wire.


> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 10:08:48 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jeff.sugheir@gmail.com
> Subject: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation
>
[color=blue]> I am about to crawl under to install the Facet electric pump in the fuel line along the frame rail. Some have done this on the auxiliary t



Jeff when you get a chance you might want to add a oil pressure safety switch in series with the power to the pump just in case so the pump is turned off if the engine stops running for any reason.






Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257969 is a reply to message #257965] Wed, 06 August 2014 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guy Lopes is currently offline  Guy Lopes   United States
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You are correct.

Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL

www.GMC-Guy.com



-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of jeff sugheir
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation

Aux tank is the front tank, right?
--
1973/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers & Paterson distributor, Al
radiator, 1 ton front, 4 bags back, Precision Steering Gearbox


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Guy Lopes 76 Birchaven "Orion" Sacramento, CA W6TOL www.GMC-Guy.com
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #257980 is a reply to message #257969] Wed, 06 August 2014 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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on my way over to NAPA for clamps and a filter, my 67 firebird died, looks like the fuel pump. So, gonna install the Facet on the Firebird , and maybe order another pump for the MH.

1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258009 is a reply to message #257956] Wed, 06 August 2014 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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G'day,

This mod was installed on Double Trouble by JimB down at the Coop, he installed the pump as close to the AUX tank as possible and
wired it into the connection on the selector valve that is powered when AUX is selected.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428


-----Original Message-----
From: jeff sugheir

I am about to crawl under to install the Facet electric pump in the fuel line along the frame rail. Some have done this on the
auxiliary tank line, switched by the tank selector toggle on the dash. Are there specific (...then connect the green wire...)
instructions for hooking up the switch? I am nearly ignorant of circuitry, but this one ought to be easy, right?
Is the alternative to install the pump downstream from the selector valve, and wire a new switch on the dash?
Anything else I should know or do before the crawl?

Thanks.


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258017 is a reply to message #257956] Wed, 06 August 2014 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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well, the pump got temp install on the firebird to get it home, so it works.
But...the selector valve does not appear to be original, and has a single wire attached. It is not hot in either dash switch toggle position. I cannot find a hot terminal on the back of the switch in either main or aux position. I unplugged each of the wires on the switch, and identified the ones feeding the fuel levels for each tank. That leaves two wires , a red and a black, that appear to do nothing.

Is it possible that I have been driving without a functional tank selector valve?
Should there be a ignition hot wire to the toggle switch, that throws 12v down to the selector valve when in AUX position?
Should I ignore all this, put the pump downstream of the selector valve, and run it through an independent dash switch, that I can throw if VL symptoms appear?

Remember, its a GMC II, not much stock, most everything I have gotten into electrically has been hacked.

Thanks,


1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258020 is a reply to message #258017] Wed, 06 August 2014 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roy1 is currently offline  roy1   United States
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xplorid wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 20:46
well, the pump got temp install on the firebird to get it home, so it works.
But...the selector valve does not appear to be original, and has a single wire attached. It is not hot in either dash switch toggle position. I cannot find a hot terminal on the back of the switch in either main or aux position. I unplugged each of the wires on the switch, and identified the ones feeding the fuel levels for each tank. That leaves two wires , a red and a black, that appear to do nothing.

Is it possible that I have been driving without a functional tank selector valve?
Should there be a ignition hot wire to the toggle switch, that throws 12v down to the selector valve when in AUX position?
Should I ignore all this, put the pump downstream of the selector valve, and run it through an independent dash switch, that I can throw if VL symptoms appear?

Remember, its a GMC II, not much stock, most everything I have gotten into electrically has been hacked.

Thanks,

Yes it would appear that you don't have a functioning selector valve. I don't have a wiring schematic handy at this time but one wire on the switch needs to get power from the ignition switch when in the on position and another wire needs to connect from the switch to the selector valve when the switch is in auxiliary position. The selector valve needs a hot wire and a ground either a separate ground wire or an internal ground thru the metal mounting bracket an ohm meter will tell you if it is grounded thru the case. I would find where the power is lost maybe as simple as a bad fuse? Does one of the wires you identified connect to the selector? If you look at the chassis wiring diagram for your coach it should show the color code for each wire but I'm not sure if Coachman is the same as GM built. I wouldn't use a separate switch as the stock switch switches the tank senders as well as the selector on or off. It should be easy to trace it out but look for a bad fuse first.


Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258022 is a reply to message #258017] Thu, 07 August 2014 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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One need to keep in mind that you need to get the fuel to travel with the
least amount of negative pressure from the tank to the carburetor and also
avoid additional heat along the way.
Our Auxiliary fuel pump kit advises one to bring both lines to the outside
of the frame rail to avoiv the high temperature from engine and mufflers.
Once out to the outside there will be a high capacity filter to protect the
pump with least negative pressure.
We supply an reverse valve, as our vain driven pump when shut off does not
allow fluid to be pulled through..



On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 8:46 PM, jeff sugheir wrote:

> well, the pump got temp install on the firebird to get it home, so it
> works.
> But...the selector valve does not appear to be original, and has a single
> wire attached. It is not hot in either dash switch toggle position. I
> cannot find a hot terminal on the back of the switch in either main or aux
> position. I unplugged each of the wires on the switch, and identified the
> ones feeding the fuel levels for each tank. That leaves two wires , a red
> and a black, that appear to do nothing.
>
> Is it possible that I have been driving without a functional tank selector
> valve?
> Should there be a ignition hot wire to the toggle switch, that throws 12v
> down to the selector valve when in AUX position?
> Should I ignore all this, put the pump downstream of the selector valve,
> and run it through an independent dash switch, that I can throw if VL
> symptoms appear?
>
> Remember, its a GMC II, not much stock, most everything I have gotten into
> electrically has been hacked.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> 1973/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers & Paterson distributor, Al
> radiator, 1 ton front, 4 bags back, Precision Steering Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258051 is a reply to message #257956] Thu, 07 August 2014 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
habbyguy is currently offline  habbyguy   United States
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My electric fuel pump is installed after the selector switch, and is controlled by a lighted toggle switch under the dash (next to the similar switch for the auxillary vacuum pump). Both of these switches are wired to the ignition circuit so they're off when the coach isn't running. I like that because it gives me the option of running the aux. pump or not. I've found I really don't need it unless it's REALLY hot (the only time I had VL was after driving in 105 degree heat in stop-and-go traffic... when the engine stumbled, I hit the aux. pump switch and was running like a top again instantly).

Mark Hickey Mesa, AZ 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258054 is a reply to message #258051] Thu, 07 August 2014 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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habbyguy wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 12:54
My electric fuel pump is installed after the selector switch, and is controlled by a lighted toggle switch under the dash (next to the similar switch for the auxillary vacuum pump). Both of these switches are wired to the ignition circuit so they're off when the coach isn't running. I like that because it gives me the option of running the aux. pump or not. I've found I really don't need it unless it's REALLY hot (the only time I had VL was after driving in 105 degree heat in stop-and-go traffic... when the engine stumbled, I hit the aux. pump switch and was running like a top again instantly).

Mark,

What pump are you using?
Did you have to add any other hardware??

Matt - still waiting


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258059 is a reply to message #258051] Thu, 07 August 2014 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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Thanks Mark, that's what I am about to do. When I got the coach it had a led switch on the dash for an electric fuel pump. However, when I found the pump on the frame it was not connected to anything, so I tore out the wiring behind the dash, but kept the switch. Time to hook it up again.

I wanted to put the pump upstream from the selector valve, but there is no power to the valve. The tank toggle switch on the dash has no 12v power, though I can tell which terminal should have power (dead wire there). Even if I power the lead that I think goes down to the selector valve, I get nothing at the valve, so there seems to be a break. A bit of a mess, and while I think I can run a new ignition-switched wire from the fuse block to the switch, and a new wire from the switch down to the valve...not sure the valve will work even then, and not sure I should be doing this with such limited knowledge.

So, how is it that I have been driving this coach for two years without a tank switch? Does the gas just slosh between tanks? And would this explain some VL-type stumbling when the tanks are getting low?


1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258061 is a reply to message #258059] Thu, 07 August 2014 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Jeff, if your selector switch is wired like the factory did it, it is only
powered when the ignition switch is in the on or accessory positions. When
ignition switch is off, the selector switch defaults to the main tank. So
if you were probing under the coach with the ignition off, you would have
not found any live wires on the selector switch. It might have been ok.
Worth a check at the least. Btdt. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 7, 2014 10:35 AM, "jeff sugheir" wrote:

> Thanks Mark, that's what I am about to do. When I got the coach it had a
> led switch on the dash for an electric fuel pump. However, when I found the
> pump on the frame it was not connected to anything, so I tore out the
> wiring behind the dash, but kept the switch. Time to hook it up again.
>
> I wanted to put the pump upstream from the selector valve, but there is no
> power to the valve. The tank toggle switch on the dash has no 12v power,
> though I can tell which terminal should have power (dead wire there).
> Even if I power the lead that I think goes down to the selector valve, I
> get
> nothing at the valve, so there seems to be a break. A bit of a mess, and
> while I think I can run a new ignition-switched wire from the fuse block to
> the switch, and a new wire from the switch down to the valve...not sure
> the valve will work even then, and not sure I should be doing this with such
> limited knowledge.
>
> So, how is it that I have been driving this coach for two years without a
> tank switch? Does the gas just slosh between tanks? And would this explain
> some VL-type stumbling when the tanks are getting low?
> --
> 1973/94 GMCII in Boise 76 455 with headers & Paterson distributor, Al
> radiator, 1 ton front, 4 bags back, Precision Steering Gearbox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258062 is a reply to message #258061] Thu, 07 August 2014 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplorid is currently offline  xplorid   United States
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Hi Jim

Understood, that does not appear to be the issue.

Fuses are good. On the dash switch, there are 3 wires related to the tank senders for level, they seem to work fine. Two wires and one free terminal remain on back of the switch (not an original switch).

There is a wire that I think is supposed to be ignition 12v into the switch that does nothing key on or off. If I power that terminal from elsewhere, it will switch the remaining wired terminal on when in AUX. However, that wire will not transmit voltage to the selector valve, even though I have traced it all the way down there.

So, I think I can see how it is supposed to work, but problems in and out of the switch. If I power the selector valve directly with 12v, it does not make any noise or indicate that it is working, but maybe it is functional.

I guess this has not been working the entire time I have owned the coach, and guess that I have been running off the main tank with slow slosh from the aux to main. Headed out now to pull each fuel line from the valve and see if that answers any questions.

Trying to prep for the trip to Yachats next week. Sure would like to at least understand this before I head out with wife and dogs.

Jeff



1974/94 GMCII by Explorer Manny 6.5 TD Al radiator 1 ton front 4 bags back
Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump Installation [message #258063 is a reply to message #258061] Thu, 07 August 2014 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
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Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Senior Member
""Jeff, if your selector switch is wired like the factory did it, it is only
powered when the ignition switch is in the on or accessory positions. When
ignition switch is off, the selector switch defaults to the main tank. So
if you were probing under the coach with the ignition off, you would have
not found any live wires on the selector switch. It might have been ok.
Worth a check at the least. Btdt. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
""

Jim--wouldn't that be the case even with the ignition on and the selector set on "main" ?


Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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