Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 1 Ton Conversion
| 1 Ton Conversion [message #256299] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 19:40  |
rickmike
Messages: 252
Registered: September 2011
Location: United States
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There has been a lot of discussion about 1 ton conversion for the front end.
What years and models do the 1 ton parts come from?
Rick M.
1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256313 is a reply to message #256310] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 20:45  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Rick,
Unless you have truly exceptional facilities and abilities, there's no way
on God's Green Earth for you to come anywhere near duplicating Manny's
1-Ton kit for any where near his price, even if you value your time at $0.
There is no single assembly you can ask for that will provide all the
needed parts. Even the ball joints are from different vehicles, to mention
just one part. Imagine the time you'll spend gathering parts (never mind
that some are custom), building the essential jigs to align the parts
you'll have to customize yourself (without specific instructions, by the
way), and the design and acquisition of custom components such as axles
(and you aren't likely to buy those in lots of 100, as Manny does -- if not
multiple 100's).
There are several who've done it on their own, but I doubt that many would
recommend it.
Good luck. And as Jim H. said, YOYO. :-)
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Richard Michelhaugh <
rick.michelhaugh@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> What specific model can I ask the salvage yard for?
>
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256316 is a reply to message #256313] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 21:07 |
rickmike
Messages: 252
Registered: September 2011
Location: United States
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Although I do have exceptional facilities and abilities, I have no intention of
trying to duplicate Manny's, et al efforts. I simply want to take some measurements
off of the donor vehicle if I can find one in a local salvage yard.
Thanks for your concern.
Rick M.
Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 21:45Rick,
Unless you have truly exceptional facilities and abilities, there's no way
on God's Green Earth for you to come anywhere near duplicating Manny's
1-Ton kit for any where near his price, even if you value your time at $0.
There is no single assembly you can ask for that will provide all the
needed parts. Even the ball joints are from different vehicles, to mention
just one part. Imagine the time you'll spend gathering parts (never mind
that some are custom), building the essential jigs to align the parts
you'll have to customize yourself (without specific instructions, by the
way), and the design and acquisition of custom components such as axles
(and you aren't likely to buy those in lots of 100, as Manny does -- if not
multiple 100's).
There are several who've done it on their own, but I doubt that many would
recommend it.
Good luck. And as Jim H. said, YOYO. 
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Richard Michelhaugh <
rick.michelhaugh@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> What specific model can I ask the salvage yard for?
>
>
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1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
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| Re: 1 Ton Conversion [message #256318 is a reply to message #256299] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 21:32 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Rick, before I came to the same conclusion that Ken was talking about, I was pursuing doing the same thing as you are and actually purchased the pieces parts. I dealt with an outfit called SIDCO up in Minnesota. What I got from them was:
A 89-91 GMC or Chevy 1 ton four wheel drive, preferably a dually (K3500).
Both right and left sides preferably from the same truck
The steering knuckles, upper and lower control arms, hub and bearing assemblies, brake rotors, calipers and pads, axle/CV half shafts, lower ball joints, brake hoses.
After I hauled this stuff the 1000 miles home, I decided that I'd be penny wise and pound foolish to proceed trying to re-invent the wheel and got Manny's.
That said, there is a guy name Barry Owen in NC that used to run a NASCAR Busch team. At GMCMI Dothan last year, he was talking about making a whole new front subframe from DOM ChromeMoly tube and use the original Chevy 4WD mounting points for the standard Chevy control arms. That is, determine the correct location of the upper and lower control arm mounts in three dimensional space and build the frame to support the mounts in that location. With that approach, there would be no modification required to the control arms. He was going to make aluminum spacers for the differential to make up for the difference in length of the half shafts.
To me, that seems like a very reasonable approach but it would take a frame table, some carefully constructed jigs and fixtures, and some really good measurements to ensure everything would be right. Not to mention complete confidence in your design and welding skills.
I'd like to do something like that but only because I like to design and build things. It doesn't make sense for me because my project list exceeds my life expectancy by 20 years already and that doesn't even include the wife's list....  
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: 1 Ton Conversion [message #256322 is a reply to message #256299] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 21:38 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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BTW, I have the pieces parts laying in my steel yard if that is what you want measurements from.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256331 is a reply to message #256318] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 23:14 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Kerry,
Barry was at Cleveland last weekend. He got bored one afternoon and came
over to measure my 1-Ton and Nick Knowlton's unmodified coach up on his
hydraulic levelers next to me. The next morning he showed up with a clean
sheet of paper with his tentative configuration for the front chassis --
the WHOLE thing. He's planning to build the entire chassis, including
front air bag suspension, from scratch (except, probably, the knuckles and
outboard).
I learned a lot from the few days we spent together. Incidentally, he
doesn't share the concerns some express about the geometry of the 1-Ton.
Not ideal, perhaps, but certainly nothing to worry about, especially with
the good results we're all having with it.
He's invited you, Hubert, & me up to help/learn when he gets ready to cut
metal.
That write up of Stan Edwards' -- if you can find your copy, how about
sending it to me -- I seem to have lost/misplaced mine.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> ...
>
> That said, there is a guy name Barry Owen in NC that used to run a NASCAR
> Busch team. At GMCMI Dothan last year, he was talking about making a whole
> new front subframe from DOM ChromeMoly tube and use the original Chevy
> 4WD mounting points for the standard Chevy control arms. That is, determine
> the correct location of the upper and lower control arm mounts in three
> dimensional space and build the frame to support the mounts in that
> location.
> With that approach, there would be no modification required to the control
> arms. He was going to make aluminum spacers for the differential to make
> up for the difference in length of the half shafts.
>
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256335 is a reply to message #256316] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 23:29 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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By the time you find the one and pay for the parts and put on new
components, you'll hare spent lot o time .
Manny and I sell them as a kit.
Cutting the lower A frame and knowing exactly where to weld the plates is
not easy.
Manny or I can supply the Lower arm.
Bill Hubler figured out these dimensions and brought it to me and we made
several..
Manny then came over and mass produced them and I don't thing anyone can
come close to our prices.
We sell componet parts from our kits all the time as some want and can do
it, and I'm all for helping.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Richard Michelhaugh <
rick.michelhaugh@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Although I do have exceptional facilities and abilities, I have no
> intention of
> trying to duplicate Manny's, et al efforts. I simply want to take some
> measurements
> off of the donor vehicle if I can find one in a local salvage yard.
>
> Thanks for your concern.
>
> Rick M.
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 21:45
>> Rick,
>>
>> Unless you have truly exceptional facilities and abilities, there's no
> way
>> on God's Green Earth for you to come anywhere near duplicating Manny's
>> 1-Ton kit for any where near his price, even if you value your time at
> $0.
>> There is no single assembly you can ask for that will provide all the
>> needed parts. Even the ball joints are from different vehicles, to
> mention
>> just one part. Imagine the time you'll spend gathering parts (never mind
>> that some are custom), building the essential jigs to align the parts
>> you'll have to customize yourself (without specific instructions, by the
>> way), and the design and acquisition of custom components such as axles
>> (and you aren't likely to buy those in lots of 100, as Manny does -- if
> not
>> multiple 100's).
>>
>> There are several who've done it on their own, but I doubt that many
> would
>> recommend it.
>>
>> Good luck. And as Jim H. said, YOYO. :)
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Richard Michelhaugh > rick.michelhaugh@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What specific model can I ask the salvage yard for?
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> 1974 26' Canyonlands
> aka "The General"
> Clinton, TN
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256353 is a reply to message #256316] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 08:50 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
This should give you all the information you're looking for. Better
download it now, because I seem to loose things from Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdfzkk7f0wpzgo8/One%20Ton%20Truck%20Front%20Suspension%20Conversion.pptx
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Richard Michelhaugh <
rick.michelhaugh@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Although I do have exceptional facilities and abilities, I have no
> intention of
> trying to duplicate Manny's, et al efforts. I simply want to take some
> measurements
> off of the donor vehicle if I can find one in a local salvage yard.
>
> Thanks for your concern.
>
> Rick M.
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256377 is a reply to message #256353] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 11:24 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 24 July 2014 08:50Richard,
This should give you all the information you're looking for. Better download it now, because I seem to loose things from Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdfzkk7f0wpzgo8/One%20Ton%20Truck%20Front%20Suspension%20Conversion.pptx
Ken H. I know I am ignorant about metallurgy so don't know how to make one, but all that is really needed is a hybrid knuckle with the ball joint and tie rod connections identical to the original GMC motorhome and the rest of the dimensions identical to the one-ton. Then use the original motorhome A-arms (reinforced of course) and the rest of the stuff from the existing one-ton kit. Geometry is identical to OEM, bigger brake rotors, easy to service bearings, spacers to line up the track of the front wheels with the rears.
If you want to get a little creative, redo the torsion bar socket in the lower A-arm, relocate the other end of the torsion bar connection as required, and use a new, currently available, torsion bar. Select the torsion bar to suit your firmness of ride. Once you configure the GMC front end to accept the new ones, there is a wide variety of tensions to choose from.
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256386 is a reply to message #256377] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 12:47 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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if you looked at the file, you will see it is not worth your time --- buy
from manny
http://www.machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=ExtraParts
erf
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:24 AM, A. wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 24 July 2014 08:50
>> Richard,
>>
>> This should give you all the information you're looking for. Better
> download it now, because I seem to loose things from Dropbox:
>>
>>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdfzkk7f0wpzgo8/One%20Ton%20Truck%20Front%20Suspension%20Conversion.pptx
>>
>> Ken H.
> I know I am ignorant about metallurgy so don't know how to make one, but
> all that is really needed is a hybrid knuckle with the ball joint and tie
> rod
> connections identical to the original GMC motorhome and the rest of the
> dimensions identical to the one-ton. Then use the original motorhome A-arms
> (reinforced of course) and the rest of the stuff from the existing one-ton
> kit. Geometry is identical to OEM, bigger brake rotors, easy to service
> bearings, spacers to line up the track of the front wheels with the rears.
>
> If you want to get a little creative, redo the torsion bar socket in the
> lower A-arm, relocate the other end of the torsion bar connection as
> required, and use a new, currently available, torsion bar. Select the
> torsion bar to suit your firmness of ride. Once you configure the GMC front
> end to accept the new ones, there is a wide variety of tensions to choose
> from.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> Upper Alabama
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: 1 Ton Conversion [message #256405 is a reply to message #256299] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 17:01 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Out of curiosity, has anyone tried going even further with this and tried to adapt the whole drive train?
It would certainly be a challenge as well as necessitating elongation of the engine compartment and a lot of other re engineering...
but if you could pull it off, you could have a modern 6.2 with overdrive. I have seen a couple of 4WD trucks that were somehow converted to FWD only
Not that I would want to bite something like this off, but someone with a lot of time skill and cubic money might.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1 Ton Conversion [message #256428 is a reply to message #256410] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 20:15 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for the kind words Jim, hope I can get it all to work without too much 'butchering' of the original concept. I've been playing with the engine/trans/ front end mounting this week between trips. The front end seems to be a little more of a challenge than expected. I haven't been able to find a way to adapt the 1 ton cv to a conventional shaft to work with the Dana 70 axle. I may end up using the GM IFS after all. You wouldn't happen to have a 1 ton axle shaft you could measure would you? I need the collapsed over all length if you have one around.( a little difficult to do on the coach  )
Hope to get buy your place latter next month if you're around.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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