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| [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256296] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 19:03  |
powerjon
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Registered: January 2004
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Ken,
Do you still have a foto album on your work pit at the house? I haven’t been able to find it.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256298 is a reply to message #256296] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 19:32  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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John,
I had a little trouble finding it myself! :-) Finally had to resort to
"Browse Member Galleries" for "kenhenders" and search through the albums.
Here's the start of the rack photos:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/ken-s-shop-amp-grease-rack/p14939.html
I'll tell anyone that if it were not for that fortuitous design, I'd
probably be out of the GMC by now -- I just couldn't have survived its
maintenance requirements if I'd had to work on a flat slab. A 4-post lift
would probably be better, but a standard in-the-floor pit would be a
distant third. The openness and the feasibility of doing wheel-level work
at waist height are a true blessing. What I'm trying to figure out now, is
how to convince a buyer to grant me lifetime access to "their" service rack
when I eventually have to move to a retirement home. :-)
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 8:03 PM, John Wright wrote:
> Ken,
> Do you still have a foto album on your work pit at the house? I haven’t
> been able to find it.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256345 is a reply to message #256328] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 00:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Joe,
There's really not much to the "design". It was all ad hoc. When I
decided to do it that way, I got lucky.
The upper level is about 42" higher than the lower. When we poured the
upper slab, we embedded a 3"x3" angle iron, with 12"-18" rebars welded to
the inside of the angle, in the concrete. I wanted to be sure the concrete
wasn't damaged by the concentrated load on the ramps.
Since the 14" I-beam I got for "nearly free" to use for the ramps was about
15' long, I had the posts positioned 7' from the 42" drop to the lower
level. The distance between them was set to match the GMC's front tread
since I figured that would be the heaviest load it would ever see. Not
knowing whether the idea would work and whether I'd want to leave it in
place, I had "sockets" set for the posts: 5" tubing 18" long with angle
irons welded across the bottom. Those were set in 18" footings as the
lower slab was poured.
For the posts, the closest I could get to the ID of the 5" tubing was about
4-1/2" OD, so I turned spacers from PVC pipe to mate the two. They fit
together so tightly it would take a jack arrangement of some sort to get
them posts out. At least, with the PVC between them, they shouldn't rust
together.
The cross beam between, and beyond, the posts was fitted with sockets of
the same 5" tubing so that the 3"x3" cross beam just sets on the posts,
with a single 1/2" through-bolt to secure it (for no good reason). The
beam extended beyond the posts far enough for the ramps to support the
ramps when positioned for the rear of the GMC. Since the beam extended
from post to post, any narrower tread vehicle could be accommodated also.
The 15' I-beam was cut into 7-1/2' sections. The lower flange was notched
at the upper level end so that the web rests on the angle iron embedded in
the upper slab. The tops of the flanges were rounded and smoothed to be
gentle on tires that may touch them. The end at the posts rests on the
angle iron's horizontal flange. 8" high stops were welded between the
flanges so I don't drive too far. Tabs on the ramp are fitted over the
vertical flange to eliminate any possibility of the ramp disengaging from
the angle iron -- another unnecessary precaution, as it turns out.
Everything's unbelievably sturdy. Before putting any weight on the ramps
I tried to calculate the load deflection to determine whether intermediate
supports might be required. The best I could figure, the maximum
deflection, with the GMC's front wheels in the center of the ramps, should
be 0.060". The dial indicator I fitted for the test showed 0.038" -- and
there was probably some sand crushing in that.
After using the ramp for a short time, I was thoroughly disgusted with the
design: That beam between the posts HAD to go: Too much ducking & head
knocking. So I cut between the posts in a location that allowed me to swap
sides with the cut pieces and rotate them 180*. That gave me just enough
support space between the posts for my S-10 (my narrowest tread vehicle).
It also provided support on the outsides of the posts for removable 2x12
walk planks -- especially needed since the 23 GMC's door opens over "open
air".
Under the now-unsupported outer ends of the beam(s), I welded 3" posts
with 3"x6" plates on their bottoms. With Liquid Nails (or similar) beneath
the feet and lag bolts into the concrete slab, they haven't moved a-tall.
And since most of the weight of any vehicle on the ramps is borne by the
4" posts, they're far stronger than necessary.
One serious mistake was filling the post sockets with used motor oil to
inhibit rust. The first time it got wet around the posts, the oil started
floating out. I finally had to pump some out and seal around the posts
with silicone. That's nearly, but not completely, solved the problem. At
least the oil floating on the now-trapped water should still inhibit
rusting. But the concrete around the posts is pretty badly stained. I'm
not sure how the epoxy finish I expect to eventually apply will adhere,
regardless of how I try to clean it.
What would I change? Not much. I MIGHT make it a bit higher because my
Honda touches my head if the HF roll-around stool is set too high. On the
other hand, when I need to reach 'way up, the stool might not reach high
enough and I'd have to stand with knees bent -- not a good position at 77
yo. The tabs on the beam end of the ramps might go -- sliding the ramps to
new positions is impossible if they even slightly cocked because the tabs
lock that end -- probably a good thing, really.
I don't have any safety barrier on the upper level (on ANY side). I'll
soon be installing cables down the long side of the upper level. I should
have installed sockets across the short, ramp, side so I could install
barrier support posts when the ramp is empty. Surprisingly the building
inspector said nothing about that safety hazard. At least this design
doesn't require 4-side protection, or a cover, to be safe, like a normal
pit.
If you do build something similar, don't fail to leave sufficient work
space on each side -- having standing room there is one of the greatest
benefits of the design. Also, plan ahead for up-and-down. I have fixed
stairs on one side, but none on the other -- and no room for them fixed, so
I take a lot of extra steps. You will need something similar to my
roll-around service stand (weight on it overcomes the caster springs so it
sets down on fixed feet) to get to the front of the coach. Mine is taller
than the bottom of the front hoods and has a shelf on top which is very
convenient. But because of the extra steps problem, I'm thinking of
cutting it down to the height of the upper level so I can use it for "other
side stairs".
One of the best add-ons is the mirror mounted on the wall ahead of the left
ramp. With the positions for the ramps marked on the upper level angle
iron for each vehicle type, the mirror lets me see the left front wheel so
I can just drive on, without getting out multiple times to check alignment.
HTH,
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Joe Crutchfield <
joe.crutchfield@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ken, I knew you had a "pit" but had not seen a photo of it before. I
> really like your design and have a location off my driveway where I could
> build
> something very close to what you have. I am tired of jacking my coach up
> and crawling around under it. It looks like I could design it to permit me
> to drive my old pickup onto it also. I looked through the photos but did
> not see the dimensions and specifications - maybe I just missed them. Would
> you give us the height of the posts and the length of the ramps? If you
> have time, any other dimensions and specifications of materials you used for
> posts and ramps would be appreciated. Thanks - you had a great idea.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256357 is a reply to message #256349] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 09:28 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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I have had the displeasure of being parked on Ken's ramp! It wasn't a displeasure until Ken walked over to the drivers side of
Double Trouble after he had guided me on to the ramp and said, "you've got a stream of water pouring out of the center of the
radiator!" :-)
It became a pleasure when we R&R's the radiator easily (lower frame cut) out the bottom and were able to remount the transmission
oil cooler in a frame attached to the radiator frame easily working through the removed grill.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Phipps
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:10 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H
As someone who has been on Ken's Ramp/Pit, it is great. Thanks, Ken.
Tom,Ms II
--
1975 GMC Avion
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256365 is a reply to message #256298] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 10:00 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
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Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 20:32I'll tell anyone that if it were not for that fortuitous design, I'd
probably be out of the GMC by now -- I just couldn't have survived its
maintenance requirements if I'd had to work on a flat slab. A 4-post lift
would probably be better, but a standard in-the-floor pit would be a
distant third. The openness and the feasibility of doing wheel-level work
at waist height are a true blessing. What I'm trying to figure out now, is
how to convince a buyer to grant me lifetime access to "their" service rack
when I eventually have to move to a retirement home. 
Ken H.
I have a similar "service ramp" available to me. My neighbor and I built it to service his GMC and as a place where I could work on my cars. It was years later that I bought a GMC. I've done an engine/tranny/FD swap using it and all of my other maintenance. Now the neighbor is dead, but his grandson inherited the house and ramp. So far I have been "grandfathered in" and can continue to use the ramp. If he sells and someone new owns the house and ramp, I will have to figure how to build my own. If I didn't have access to a ramp, I would probably leave GMCing as I have no desire to crawl around under a GMC the next time I have to do a motor R&R.
Pictures of my setup:
http://www.palmbeachgmc.com/service1.htm
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256401 is a reply to message #256380] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 15:53 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Joe,
Perhaps this will answer your question:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3950-bottom-up-engine-installation.html
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Joe Crutchfield <
joe.crutchfield@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rob, I hope an engine/transmission R&R are not in my near future, and have
> not really looked at what is involved in R&Ring them, but would this type
> of ramp permit you to remove the engine from below the frame rather than
> the messy looking method of removing it from inside the coach?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256413 is a reply to message #256401] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 17:55 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 24 July 2014 16:53Joe,
Perhaps this will answer your question:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3950-bottom-up-engine-installation.html
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Joe Crutchfield <
joe.crutchfield@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rob, I hope an engine/transmission R&R are not in my near future, and have
> not really looked at what is involved in R&Ring them, but would this type
> of ramp permit you to remove the engine from below the frame rather than
> the messy looking method of removing it from inside the coach?
_______________________________________________
I got my inspiration and advice for an engine/tranny/FD swap from Ken. Dropped the complete drive train in one assembly out the bottom via the access a ramp provides.
http://www.palmbeachgmc.com/motor/motor_teardown/album/slides/DSCN8304.html
There is no way I could have done it without my neighbor's service ramp. I do have a complete album of pictures of the process of using the ramp. I should find the link and publish it here.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256461 is a reply to message #256380] |
Thu, 24 July 2014 23:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Joe,
I have removed a transmission and final drive from underneath (which is the way it has to be done) but I've never removed an engine
from underneath, out the top, or out the front on the clip.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Crutchfield
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:36 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H
Rob, I hope an engine/transmission R&R are not in my near future, and have not really looked at what is involved in R&Ring them, but
would this type
of ramp permit you to remove the engine from below the frame rather than the messy looking method of removing it from inside the
coach?
--
Joe Crutchfield
Middle Tennessee
1977 Royale Rear Bath - 455 CI
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Ken H [message #256493 is a reply to message #256424] |
Fri, 25 July 2014 09:57 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
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JoeC wrote on Thu, 24 July 2014 21:00Richard. that is a great group of photos showing your engine work. Thanks for providing us the link.
John, I feel like I highjacked your thread asking all these questions. I apologize if I made a faux paux.
I have a complete set of photos showing what I did to R&R the power train. They are similar to what Ken posted since I followed Ken's procedure. When I get back from my current GMC trip I will post them.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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