Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... (Steering Box and Oil Cooler lines)
Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253187] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 21:11 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726 Registered: May 2014 Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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So, brakes are done, wheels are polished, awning, water pump fixed, etc, etc.
My 2 bigger issues now are the oil cooler lines, and the 2-3 inches of play in the steering wheel.
I posted a picture of the oil lines in an earlier post, just so everyone knows what the photo was of I will post it again.
That play in the wheel is definitely the steering box, as I had Tina rock the wheel side to side and the pitman arm did not move.
Question #1. Where do I source new oil cooler lines.....?
Question #2. Is there a way to adjust the steering box without having to send it out for rebuild.....?
Thanks Guys!!
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2014 21:12] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253192 is a reply to message #253187] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 21:41 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Jared,
It's certainly too early to consider a rebuild. REMOVE THE GEAR BOX and
follow the procedure in the manual to adjust it. DO NOT attempt to do it
in the coach; if you do, you stand a VERY good chance of doing permanent
damage to the box. Even more likely, you will fail to properly adjust the
preload on the "high spot" of the gear. Without properly adjusting that
point, and knowing how to "find" it during subsequent front suspension
adjustments, it's very unlikely you'll ever make the GMC steer correctly.
That is the most essential component of the steering, do it correctly now.
Oh yeah, if you don't have access to an inch-pound torque wrench
(preferably bending-beam), try bicycle shops.
Not JMHO!
Oh yeah again: If you do eventually find that you need to have the box
rebuilt, I highly recommend these folks in Seattle, to whom Todd Sullivan
sent me when I had box trouble last summer:
http://www.redheadsteeringgears.com/
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Jared wrote:
> So, brakes are done, wheels are polished, awning, water pump fixed, etc,
> etc.
>
> My 2 bigger issues now are the oil cooler lines, and the 2-3 inches of
> play in the steering wheel.
>
>
> I posted a picture of the oil lines in an earlier post, just so everyone
> knows what the photo was of I will post it again.
>
> That play in the wheel is definitely the steering box, as I had Tina rock
> the wheel side to side and the pitman arm did not move.
>
> Question #1. Where do I source new oil cooler lines.....?
>
> Question #2. Is there a way to adjust the steering box without having to
> send it out for rebuild.....?
>
>
> http://s287.photobucket.com/user/lotsofspareparts/media/1977%20GMC%20Eleganza/IMG_20140622_191559_960.jpg.html
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253193 is a reply to message #253187] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 21:52 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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I got my oil cooler lines from JR Slaten:
http://www.bdub.net/slaten/
http://www.bdub.net/slaten/
But I am sure JimK sells them at Applied.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253194 is a reply to message #253187] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 21:57 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726 Registered: May 2014 Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Does it have to be a bending beam torque wrench? I do have an inch pound 3/8 clicker torque wrench, I do have a bending beam torque wrench but it is in ft-lb, which I have never used (Christmas present from years ago).
I have the GMC Maintenance manual, and the supplemental manual for the 77-78, I will take a look.
Thanks,
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253195 is a reply to message #253192] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 21:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Jared,
I forgot to mention: Don't let anyone talk you out of your Genuine GMC
steeing box. There are a lot of others that "will fit" (see Don Wirth's
paper at www.gmceast.com), but they do NOT have the proper internal stops
for the GMC. And, as RedHead will tell you, there are no substitutes for
those.
Also didn't answer your question about the oil cooler lines. If you refer
to the manual you'll find that the original end fittings are removable so
that you can merely buy replacement hose and transfer the fittings. A
better option is to buy JR Slaten's SS covered hoses. Find his address at
www.bdub.net, or they're probably available from Applied GMC.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Jared,
>
> It's certainly too early to consider a rebuild. REMOVE THE GEAR BOX and
> follow the procedure in the manual to adjust it. DO NOT attempt to do it
> in the coach; if you do, you stand a VERY good chance of doing permanent
> damage to the box. Even more likely, you will fail to properly adjust the
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253196 is a reply to message #253187] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 21:51 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797 Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Kanomata at Applied for braided stainless lines that you will never have to replace and you admire every time you see them.
If you are sure the play is not in the column or u joint on the input shaft of the steering box then I believe a rebuilt box is in you future.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 7:11 PM, Jared wrote:
>
> So, brakes are done, wheels are polished, awning, water pump fixed, etc, etc.
>
> My 2 bigger issues now are the oil cooler lines, and the 2-3 inches of play in the steering wheel.
>
>
> I posted a picture of the oil lines in an earlier post, just so everyone knows what the photo was of I will post it again.
>
> That play in the wheel is definitely the steering box, as I had Tina rock the wheel side to side and the pitman arm did not move.
>
> Question #1. Where do I source new oil cooler lines.....?
>
> Question #2. Is there a way to adjust the steering box without having to send it out for rebuild.....?
>
> http://s287.photobucket.com/user/lotsofspareparts/media/1977%20GMC%20Eleganza/IMG_20140622_191559_960.jpg.html
>
> Thanks Guys!!
>
> Jared
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron
>
> Daughter: Alina Lazaron 7yrs old
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché"
>
> GO SEAHAWKS!!
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253204 is a reply to message #253194] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 22:48 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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You can probably do the adjustment with your clicker, especially since
you're already familiar with it, but I find a bending beam much easier for
that purpose.
Ken H.
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Jared wrote:
> Does it have to be a bending beam torque wrench? I do have an inch pound
> 3/8 clicker torque wrench, I do have a bending beam torque wrench but it is
> in ft-lb, which I have never used (Christmas present from years ago).
>
> I have the GMC Maintenance manual, and the supplemental manual for the
> 77-78, I will take a look.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253206 is a reply to message #253187] |
Tue, 24 June 2014 23:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jared,
To check out the steering completely download and perform this procedure:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
It will refer you to the procedure in the Maintenance Manual to adjust the steering box. You will need a 0-60 inch ounce beam type
torque wrench to perform the procedure; a click type will not work.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Jared
So, brakes are done, wheels are polished, awning, water pump fixed, etc, etc.
My 2 bigger issues now are the oil cooler lines, and the 2-3 inches of play in the steering wheel.
I posted a picture of the oil lines in an earlier post, just so everyone knows what the photo was of I will post it again.
That play in the wheel is definitely the steering box, as I had Tina rock the wheel side to side and the pitman arm did not move.
Question #1. Where do I source new oil cooler lines.....?
Question #2. Is there a way to adjust the steering box without having to send it out for rebuild.....?
http://s287.photobucket.com/user/lotsofspareparts/media/1977%20GMC%20Eleganza/IMG_20140622_191559_960.jpg.html
Thanks Guys!!
Jared
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253215 is a reply to message #253187] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 00:35 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I am second guessing you steering wheel play diagnosis.
Have you thoroughly looked at the steering shaft slip joint?
It is located directly above the steering box. It is common for GMCs to wear the blue plastic stuff on the inside shaft and causing the symptom you are describing. With the steering wheel unlocked grab the collar in one hand and the shaft in the other. Try to rotate the shaft by hand looking for any play in that joint. I few thousandths play here translates to an inch or two play at the steering wheel.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253265 is a reply to message #253238] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 17:58 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337 Registered: March 2008 Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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I just dis my steering box. No way can you do it ( right) with a clicker.
You have to swing back and forth across the high point while tightening the adjustment.
You do that a LOT
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253266 is a reply to message #253215] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 18:55 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726 Registered: May 2014 Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 24 June 2014 22:35I am second guessing you steering wheel play diagnosis.
Have you thoroughly looked at the steering shaft slip joint?
It is located directly above the steering box. It is common for GMCs to wear the blue plastic stuff on the inside shaft and causing the symptom you are describing. With the steering wheel unlocked grab the collar in one hand and the shaft in the other. Try to rotate the shaft by hand looking for any play in that joint. I few thousandths play here translates to an inch or two play at the steering wheel.
I can certainly try that but I think a few thousandths play would be really hard to feel.
I can tell you that I had Tina rock the steering wheel back and forth while I watched the pitman arm, which did not move.
I then popped the driver side access and had her do the same thing and the shaft was turning the same amount all the way down to the steering box.
Pretty certain the box needs to be adjusted/rebuilt.
I will pull it and adjust it on the bench...... I hate having to buy tools for "one time only" projects.
I do not have a pitman arm puller, but may be able to try my jaw puller. I will have to source an inch pound beam torque wrench.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2014 18:56] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253268 is a reply to message #253266] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 19:09 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Just try it. I had .005" wink in it and that gave me about 1.5" play at the wheel. I fashioned some thin strips of .005" brass shim stock and slipped them into the joint. That took care of my wheel play. Most people just replace it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253272 is a reply to message #253268] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 19:23 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726 Registered: May 2014 Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 25 June 2014 17:09Just try it. I had .005" wink in it and that gave me about 1.5" play at the wheel. I fashioned some thin strips of .005" brass shim stock and slipped them into the joint. That took care of my wheel play. Most people just replace it.
I will take a closer look...... a little intrigued.........
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253293 is a reply to message #253187] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 22:40 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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lotsofspareparts wrote on Tue, 24 June 2014 20:11So, brakes are done, wheels are polished, awning, water pump fixed, etc, etc.
My 2 bigger issues now are the oil cooler lines, and the 2-3 inches of play in the steering wheel.
I posted a picture of the oil lines in an earlier post, just so everyone knows what the photo was of I will post it again.
That play in the wheel is definitely the steering box, as I had Tina rock the wheel side to side and the pitman arm did not move.
Question #1. Where do I source new oil cooler lines.....?
Question #2. Is there a way to adjust the steering box without having to send it out for rebuild.....?
Thanks Guys!!
Jared
Everyone here will pee and yell and encourage you to spend tons of money and buy a new gear from a trusted vendor, but there is a work around if you are carefull. These gears simply do not wear out. I have worked with GM steering gears since about 1974 so try this. Almost all of the time the axial adjustment is not at fault. If you locate the aluminum side cover on the gear you will see a locknut and an allen adjustment screw. This adjustment is the one that is usually the cause of looseness on center. I would loosen the locknut while holding the center allen screw stationary. Then gently turn the screw clockwise while grabbing the input shaft and an rotating it by hand back and forth. Adjust to the point till you gently feel resistance and thighten the lock nut while holding the allen adjusting screw. If you have any doubt, go in small incremnents. If you go too far you will have friction in the gear and you can back off slightly. The advantage of this approach is that you won't need to remove the gear and go through complicated on center location and adjustment. don't spend hundreds of dollars untill all else fails.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253295 is a reply to message #253293] |
Wed, 25 June 2014 22:51 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946 Registered: July 2013 Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 25 June 2014 20:40
Everyone here will pee and yell and encourage you to spend tons of money and buy a new gear from a trusted vendor, but there is a work around if you are carefull. These gears simply do not wear out. I have worked with GM steering gears since about 1974 so try this. Almost all of the time the axial adjustment is not at fault. If you locate the aluminum side cover on the gear you will see a locknut and an allen adjustment screw. This adjustment is the one that is usually the cause of looseness on center. I would loosen the locknut while holding the center allen screw stationary. Then gently turn the screw clockwise while grabbing the input shaft and an rotating it by hand back and forth. Adjust to the point till you gently feel resistance and thighten the lock nut while holding the allen adjusting screw. If you have any doubt, go in small incremnents. If you go too far you will have friction in the gear and you can back off slightly. The advantage of this approach is that you won't need to remove the gear and go through complicated on center location and adjustment. don't spend hundreds of dollars untill all else fails.
Not me. I was going to suggest the exact same procedure, I just didn't want to deal with all the peeing an yelling ;o)
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253323 is a reply to message #253295] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 10:03 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452 Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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I did basically the same thing to my 1999 GMC 2500 Sierra pickup when the steering got a bit loosey-goosey and the dealership wanted to sell me a new steering box for close to $1,000! A bit of looseness has crept in some 40,000 or so miles later (now 165,000) and it may be time to touch it up a bit.
I figure it's worth a shot, at the very least!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:51:14 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: dao@oarsllc.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff...
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 25 June 2014 20:40
>> Everyone here will pee and yell and encourage you to spend tons of money and buy a new gear from a trusted vendor, but there is a work around if
>> you are carefull. These gears simply do not wear out. I have worked with GM steering gears since about 1974 so try this. Almost all of the time the
>> axial adjustment is not at fault. If you locate the aluminum side cover on the gear you will see a locknut and an allen adjustment screw. This
>> adjustment is the one that is usually the cause of looseness on center. I would loosen the locknut while holding the center allen screw stationary.
>> Then gently turn the screw clockwise while grabbing the input shaft and an rotating it by hand back and forth. Adjust to the point till you gently
>> feel resistance and tighten the lock nut while holding the allen adjusting screw. If you have any doubt, go in small incremnents. If you go too far
>> you will have friction in the gear and you can back off slightly. The advantage of this approach is that you won't need to remove the gear and go
>> through complicated on center location and adjustment. don't spend hundreds of dollars untill all else fails.
>
>
> Not me. I was going to suggest the exact same procedure, I just didn't want to deal with all the peeing an yelling ;o)
>
> --
> 1976 Royale "Twinkie II", 1978 Palm Beach with front end fire. Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we
> treat one another is entirely up to us."
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253368 is a reply to message #253272] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 17:54 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726 Registered: May 2014 Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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lotsofspareparts wrote on Wed, 25 June 2014 17:23Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 25 June 2014 17:09Just try it. I had .005" wink in it and that gave me about 1.5" play at the wheel. I fashioned some thin strips of .005" brass shim stock and slipped them into the joint. That took care of my wheel play. Most people just replace it.
I will take a closer look...... a little intrigued.........
Jared
Tried it, rotated the upper shaft while holding the lower shaft and Tina in the cab watching, steering wheel only moved back and forth about 1/2 inch.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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Re: Time to get down to the serious mechanical stuff... [message #253369 is a reply to message #253293] |
Thu, 26 June 2014 17:55 |
lotsofspareparts
Messages: 726 Registered: May 2014 Location: Arlington, WA
Karma: -9
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 25 June 2014 20:40lotsofspareparts wrote on Tue, 24 June 2014 20:11So, brakes are done, wheels are polished, awning, water pump fixed, etc, etc.
My 2 bigger issues now are the oil cooler lines, and the 2-3 inches of play in the steering wheel.
I posted a picture of the oil lines in an earlier post, just so everyone knows what the photo was of I will post it again.
That play in the wheel is definitely the steering box, as I had Tina rock the wheel side to side and the pitman arm did not move.
Question #1. Where do I source new oil cooler lines.....?
Question #2. Is there a way to adjust the steering box without having to send it out for rebuild.....?
Thanks Guys!!
Jared
Everyone here will pee and yell and encourage you to spend tons of money and buy a new gear from a trusted vendor, but there is a work around if you are carefull. These gears simply do not wear out. I have worked with GM steering gears since about 1974 so try this. Almost all of the time the axial adjustment is not at fault. If you locate the aluminum side cover on the gear you will see a locknut and an allen adjustment screw. This adjustment is the one that is usually the cause of looseness on center. I would loosen the locknut while holding the center allen screw stationary. Then gently turn the screw clockwise while grabbing the input shaft and an rotating it by hand back and forth. Adjust to the point till you gently feel resistance and thighten the lock nut while holding the allen adjusting screw. If you have any doubt, go in small incremnents. If you go too far you will have friction in the gear and you can back off slightly. The advantage of this approach is that you won't need to remove the gear and go through complicated on center location and adjustment. don't spend hundreds of dollars untill all else fails.
I will try that, thanks a lot for that info.
Jared
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
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