Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Refrigerator Not Working (Not getting DC voltage)
| Refrigerator Not Working [message #252694] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 20:11  |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi all quick question...I tried the fridge today after cleaning it out and it isn't powering on. Took the bottom panel off and pushed reset , still nothing. I set thermostat on 4. Checked for voltage..nada...There was a 120 volt cord underneath but not plugged in to anything. I pulled the fridge out and there is a hole in the wall going to the bathroom area underneath the sink but I don't see a 120 volt receptacle...any ideas or what am I missing here? Is the Electric Only Fridge supposed to be plugged in to a 120 volt outlet as well as the DC voltage line? This is the original fridge in my 74 GMC 260. Thanks guys for any advice..Glenn
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252699 is a reply to message #252694] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 20:44  |
 |
SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Glenn, look under the sink, my 73 with dual voltage norcold had a flexible plug end, like an extension cord end, wired to the same receptacle as the hot water heater.
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252700 is a reply to message #252698] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 20:45 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks for the reply, I thought they were only using the DC voltage but when I took the cover off and saw the 120 volt plug and then the hole in the wall I started trying to find the outlet to plug it into. I think I will try the extension cord and see what happens and then check for DC. My DC fuseblock is very sensitive where the glass fuses are and I'm planning on replacing with updated fuseblock to eliminate problems like this, I would bet it has either blown the fuse or the connection at the fuseblock is sketchy...Thanks for the pdf also, couldn't find much on it in my manuals.
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252701 is a reply to message #252699] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 20:47 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Sean thanks, I couldn't see much back there but did see the junction box but no outlet that I could see, will probably have to remove the insert with the toilet paper holder to find it. Thanks for the info. Glenn
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252702 is a reply to message #252694] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 20:59 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Glenn,
There was an astounding (to me) post and picture seminar on the picture site, go to bdub.net, about replacing the transformer and multivibrator transistor power supply with something more modern and the net energy consumption went down about something like 33% on 12 volts. There are pictures and here's a link to the narrative:
http://www.bdub.net/Refrigeration_in_the_GMC.pdf
I really think this is first class work, I admire it. The idea can help others so much, it surely bogged him down to take the pictures and work up the narrative, just a great service to the community.
Somewhere in there is a pretty good description of troubleshooting. If you find out the multivibrator 12 V DC to 120 v square wave AC is shot, then he has a suggestion of replacing it with an inverter and gaining a lot of efficiency, which should appeal to all of us, especially the boondocker. If I remember rightly, the deal might be to plug that spare 120 volt plug into house power and see if the refrigerator starts working. Then you have either a 12 volt problem going to the fridge (which I do suspect first), a solid state power supply problem, or a step-up transformer problem. This is from memory, if you find different in the article, please follow the article. First thing is to check the 12 volt fuses. Might be blown or missing. Tighten connections, ground included. Use battery clamps and an inline fuse to apply voltage direct.
Hope you can come down here to Texas again soon. It's great to find someone with problems being solved.
I am updating the post. I see A Hamilto had posted much the same information in a better format, quicker, while I was trying to find the article on refrigeration. He's quicker than I, and has made my information redundant. Glad that I am in such good company, if late.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
[Updated on: Thu, 19 June 2014 21:33] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252703 is a reply to message #252702] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 21:03 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Carey, thanks for the info, I will be checking it out tomorrow. I figure when the day isn't going right, wait until tomorrow...lol..I bet I'll get her going tomorrow and hopefully can get some cold beers in there...lol Once I get this thing road ready I'll make a trip down to Texarkana, I have a nephew that lives there and we camp out at the lake and fish...good times.. Glenn
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252714 is a reply to message #252703] |
Thu, 19 June 2014 22:26 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My Norcold (which is not original) operates on AC or propane, but requires DC for the control circuitry. Even when operating on AC, it will draw the house battery down in 36 hours if I don't charge it or have a converter running. I don't understand why Norcold didn't include a 12 volt power source in the fridge so it wouldn't have to use a battery when hooked up to AC or generator. The fridge was already installed when I got the coach, otherwise I would have selected one that also operates on 12 volts. Now I will make my own 12 volt supply that is powered by AC and incorporate it into the fridge so I don't have to keep charging the battery to keep the beer and water cold when the GMC is parked at the house.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252720 is a reply to message #252714] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 00:06 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I appreciate all the help with this fridge, will be checking her out tomorrow and I appreciate the manual for troubleshooting that A Hamilton took the time to post. I have always had the AC/Propane fridges so this is a new one for me..but hey that's why I got this coach...To boldly go where I haven't been before...lol..I enjoy the learning process and going from unknown to known..keeps us young and hungry...lol
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252723 is a reply to message #252714] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 00:10 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Bullithead, I had one of those and yes depending on which board is in it it needs 12 volts..the one I had had a switch on the board where you could turn the 12 volts off so that when you had it in storage it didn't run your battery down, the manual said for the ones that didn't have that version of board you could just remove 12 volts at the board by removing the connector. Kind of quirky setup, guess they could save a couple of dollars doing it that way...lol
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252729 is a reply to message #252694] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 01:27 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dang just remembered my son got me a new tool for Christmas that I haven't used yet...it's a color inspection camera with the long flexible shaft and it even has a light on the end for looking in dark places...I will use it tomorrow to find the plug in for the fridge. This is going to come in handy for working on the GMC, I can use it to look on top of the fuel tanks to see if there is a problem with the hoses there as well as being able to check for plumbing leaks without tearing everything apart...dang this is gonna be great..My son always gets me the most perfect gifts..lol
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252749 is a reply to message #252694] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 11:38 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
OK, just came back in after getting the refrigerator going...on 12 volts. Couldn't find the plug in for 120 volts under the bathroom sink area, I can see two black wires coming out of the electrical box but they both go up the wall from there and where I couldn't tell. So I got to looking at the fuse panel on the other side of the coach and I was right, I had 13.5 volts DC on the input side of the fuse for the Fridge and no voltage registering on the other side. Checked all other fuses and they all had voltage both sides, removed the fuse it is good, snapped it back in, still no voltage, so messed with it a bit and finally got voltage to the fridge..and it started working. As I said earlier this old fuse block will be going and replaced with a newer one with the newer fuses, I think I have one from a bad converter I removed from another camper, will look for it anyways. Any movement of the fuse in the holder and you lose connectivity. I have wiped the fuses off and the connectors but still get this odd problem with the connectivity. So that will be in the plans. Will see how cold the fridge gets now.....
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252754 is a reply to message #252749] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 12:41 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
|
Senior Member |
|
|
glenn2726 wrote on Fri, 20 June 2014 11:38OK, just came back in after getting the refrigerator going...on 12 volts. Couldn't find the plug in for 120 volts under the bathroom sink area, I can see two black wires coming out of the electrical box but they both go up the wall from there and where I couldn't tell. So I got to looking at the fuse panel on the other side of the coach and I was right, I had 13.5 volts DC on the input side of the fuse for the Fridge and no voltage registering on the other side. Checked all other fuses and they all had voltage both sides, removed the fuse it is good, snapped it back in, still no voltage, so messed with it a bit and finally got voltage to the fridge..and it started working. As I said earlier this old fuse block will be going and replaced with a newer one with the newer fuses, I think I have one from a bad converter I removed from another camper, will look for it anyways. Any movement of the fuse in the holder and you lose connectivity. I have wiped the fuses off and the connectors but still get this odd problem with the connectivity. So that will be in the plans. Will see how cold the fridge gets now..... Just remember what I said about the reason GM didn't plug into the 120V system - the Onan can produce AC power at frequencies higher than 61 Hz and lower than 59 Hz, and that can ruin the swing motor compressor. Leaving it on 12VDC power all the time avoids that potential damage, and it still gets powered from shore power or the Onan through the buzzbox (or whatever converter is currently installed) when either is available.
If you want to run it off 120VAC, the best protection for the compressor I can think of is to get yourself a highly efficient 200 - 300W full sine wave or modified sine wave inverter and run the inverter off 12VDC and the 120V side of the fridge off the inverter all the time. Again, when you are on either shore power or on the Onan, the fridge runs off the buzzbox (or whatever converter is there now) and gets relatively clean AC power from the inverter. When on battery, it still gets relatively clean AC power from the inverter. Depending on the efficiency of the inverter, it may run longer before draining the house battery, or it may drain the house battery faster than going straight to the 12VDC input. Ref "Test 3" of the document linked in the previous post.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252757 is a reply to message #252754] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 12:46 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think once I get the 12 volt panel replaced all will be well..just figured since the hole was there behind the fridge and the plug wire was there I would do that to see if it worked...but no luck finding the receptacle, so yes I will be leaving it on 12 volts unless that fails...lol
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252794 is a reply to message #252699] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 19:36 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
SeanKidd wrote on Thu, 19 June 2014 20:44Glenn, look under the sink, my 73 with dual voltage norcold had a flexible plug end, like an extension cord end, wired to the same receptacle as the hot water heater.
My fridge 120V plugs into a receptacle on the ceiling of the compartment under the fridge. This was the same receptacle used by the optional vacuum cleaner. It is listed on the January 1974 120-Volt Living Area Wiring Diagram as "circuit #4 120V 20A optional circuit avalible on 26ft. only"
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252804 is a reply to message #252794] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 21:00 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I guess I didn't get that option since I didn't get the vac either...lol..I looked all over for an outlet inside that compartment but nothing there, except the hole going into the area under the sink in the bathroom..couldn't find an outlet there either..
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252814 is a reply to message #252804] |
Fri, 20 June 2014 23:19 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Glenn,
My Norcold has the control on the front to turn it off and then it doesn't draw on the battery at all as far as I can notice. It's possible there is a parasitic drain, but that hasn't caused me any problem so I never bothered to check it out. I just wish it didn't need the 12 volts to operate on the 110 volts! The AC socket for my setup is right behind the fridge accessible through the vent panel next to the door. It was obviously put there by the fridge installer when they replaced it a few years ago and not put there by GM. I use it frequently to get AC power from the coach outside so I don't have to run a cord out of the window or the door. I guess the original fridge didn't have an AC connection.
When I made an additional power center under the left hood up front I used a 6 or 8 circuit fuse block from Napa that uses the newer ATC fuses (NOT the mini fuses, can't stand those tiny things). I think it was about $13.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Refrigerator Not Working [message #252817 is a reply to message #252814] |
Sat, 21 June 2014 01:57 |
glenn2726
Messages: 234
Registered: June 2014
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Bullithead, from what I read the fridge you have still draws the 12 volts even when in storage and unless there is a switch on the board on the back of the fridge to turn it off then the 12 volts is always there even when you turn it off at the front. You might look at your owners manual and see which board you have. I think the early GMCs (73 and 74) didn't get the 120 volt outlet for the fridge, just the 12 volts from the fuse panel. It looks like to me it really draws on the battery when it is running even when hooked to shore power so I might have to wire in a 120 volt outlet for it as it will switch between the 2 depending on whether hooked to shore power or travelling. The only drawback is the generator and whether it stays at 60hz when running for boondocking. So should probably disconnect the fridge from the 120 volt outlet when on generator power so it will run off 12 volts or get an inverter... I looked today for a newer fuse panel but guess I don't have one so will definitely check them out and get a replacement for the old style block. Thanks, Glenn
Glenn W
Topeka, KS
1974 GMC 26 ft. Color:Camel Interior:Canyon Land
Side Bath, Rear Sitting Area
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Oct 02 21:47:16 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00969 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
