Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited.
| [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252434] |
Tue, 17 June 2014 23:36  |
james Ernst
Messages: 79
Registered: December 2013
Location: Lincoln, NE
Karma: -4
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Finally after much consternation I am officially an owner of a a 1977
Kingsley. Has the twin beds and dry bath, and if some of you remember, the
455 with the side pipes that look like Lake Pipes.
I do have to wipe a little egg of my face however. I thought the old girl
when I first set eyes on her was an Eleganza. But thanks to Wild Bill I
believe, he thought something was fishy in my description. He was right.
She is running rich so I grabbed one of the old school techs at the folk's
GM dealership. The only guy left that knows how to keep a Q-Jet in tune. He
took one look ordered up a new primary pull off and an electric choke and
should be good to go.
Now for the really perplexing issue. I knew when I picked her up she had a
bad chassis battery. I replaced that and found out her alternator was not
charging. So pulled it out and put it on the test stand, it was fried.
Hell, the machine wouldn't even spin it, fried so bad.
Picked up a new 80 Amp alt. and installed it. Started her up to check it
out. Pushed the monitor on the wall, boom clear into the red. Went up front
put the meter on the batt terminals, showed 12.61 volts, the batt showed
12.80 with the engine off. Hmm? So i took the meter back to the house
battery, 17.98 volts, WTH? Then put the meter on the alt. itself, 17.9V
more WTHs. Pulled the cables from both batteries and check at the alt
again, 25.5V #%$@#. Pulled the alt. took it back to NAPA had them put it on
their tester per their request. Showed a normal 14.8 V.So now I'm stumped
big time. Any clues from the well informed? Magnetic switcher bad? The batt
boost works fine BTW. So no charge going to front Chassis batt and crazy
high voltage.
Other than this and the house water pump( which I was told works)
everything else works great. It has a new Iota 45 amp inverter too.The
house batt was put in in 2006. And the 10year old Dometic keeps beer Ice
cold which is very important right now!!
Can't wait to take her out for first camping trip!
Big Thanks in advance for any and all advice!!
Jim Ernst
Columbus, Nebraska
77 Kingsley
TZE267V100906
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Jimbalaya
No Coach yet
60 Olds 88
66 Toro
76 Toro
86 cutlass Supreme
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252435 is a reply to message #252434] |
Tue, 17 June 2014 23:47  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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You could have one of several problems. Probably you have a bad isolator. The alternator hooks directly to the isolator. The isolator splits the charge between the house and engine battery systems. The alternator has a sense line run to the engine battery side and raises or lowers the voltage to maintain around 14 volts. Unfortunately the alternator only monitors the engine side and not the house side. So what is happening is the alternator thinks the voltage is low and is raising it to try to make up for the loss. Mean while the house side is seeing a way over voltage condition.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252437 is a reply to message #252435] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 00:02 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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To check the isolator:
1. Turn EVERYTHING OFF on the house side. We are doing this to prevent blowing things like light bulbs and refrigerators.
2. Take a voltmeter and hook the ground side to the plate that the isolator is mounted on.
3. Start the engine and quickly check the plus voltage at all 3 terminals.
3. STOP THE ENGINE NOW.
4. The center terminal reading is the alternator output.
5. The top and bottom terminals are the house and engine side systems.
I would expect 14.7 volts on the center terminal and about .7 volts lower on the top and bottom. Whatever the center reads, the top and bottom need to be around .7 lower. If they are not then replace the isolator. Some people these days like combiners. We can discuss this more if you find the isolator is bad.
If they are .7 lower then we need to discus additional diagnostic procedures.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252439 is a reply to message #252437] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 00:31 |
james Ernst
Messages: 79
Registered: December 2013
Location: Lincoln, NE
Karma: -4
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Member |
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Ken,
Thank you so much for the quick reply. I will get on it tomorrow or this
weekend while off work. I'll keep you posted as to the results.
Jim E.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> To check the isolator:
>
> 1. Turn EVERYTHING OFF on the house side. We are doing this to prevent
> blowing things like light bulbs and refrigerators.
>
> 2. Take a voltmeter and hook the ground side to the plate that the
> isolator is mounted on.
>
> 3. Start the engine and quickly check the plus voltage at all 3 terminals.
>
> 3. STOP THE ENGINE NOW.
>
> 4. The center terminal reading is the alternator output.
>
> 5. The top and bottom terminals are the house and engine side systems.
>
>
> I would expect 14.7 volts on the center terminal and about .7 volts lower
> on the top and bottom. Whatever the center reads, the top and bottom need
> to be around .7 lower. If they are not then replace the isolator. Some
> people these days like combiners. We can discuss this more if you find the
> isolator is bad.
>
> If they are .7 lower then we need to discus additional diagnostic
> procedures.
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jimbalaya
No Coach yet
60 Olds 88
66 Toro
76 Toro
86 cutlass Supreme
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252440 is a reply to message #252439] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 03:31 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Be sure there is an APC cable on it to protect the wiring
Erf
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and -------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> On Jun 17, 2014, at 10:31 PM, james Ernst wrote:
>
> Ken,
> Thank you so much for the quick reply. I will get on it tomorrow or this
> weekend while off work. I'll keep you posted as to the results.
>
> Jim E.
>
>
>> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>>
>> To check the isolator:
>>
>> 1. Turn EVERYTHING OFF on the house side. We are doing this to prevent
>> blowing things like light bulbs and refrigerators.
>>
>> 2. Take a voltmeter and hook the ground side to the plate that the
>> isolator is mounted on.
>>
>> 3. Start the engine and quickly check the plus voltage at all 3 terminals.
>>
>> 3. STOP THE ENGINE NOW.
>>
>> 4. The center terminal reading is the alternator output.
>>
>> 5. The top and bottom terminals are the house and engine side systems.
>>
>>
>> I would expect 14.7 volts on the center terminal and about .7 volts lower
>> on the top and bottom. Whatever the center reads, the top and bottom need
>> to be around .7 lower. If they are not then replace the isolator. Some
>> people these days like combiners. We can discuss this more if you find the
>> isolator is bad.
>>
>> If they are .7 lower then we need to discus additional diagnostic
>> procedures.
>>
>> Ken B.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252441 is a reply to message #252439] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 04:02 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Gene.
I was going to throw that in later rather than confuse him at this point. The fact that he is seeing only 12.6 on the engine while 17+ on the house side strongly suggests an open isolator diode on the engine side of the isolator and not an nichrome wire failure. I agree he needs to install an APC as a preventative of future failures.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252444 is a reply to message #252435] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 05:39 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Whatta ya think, Ken, where'd that 25.5 VDC come from? The 17.98 VDC
should have been the internal voltage limiter cutting in; why didn't it
continue to limit the output???
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> You could have one of several problems. Probably you have a bad isolator.
> The alternator hooks directly to the isolator. The isolator splits the
> charge between the house and engine battery systems. The alternator has
> a sense line run to the engine battery side and raises or lowers the voltage
> to maintain around 14 volts. Unfortunately the alternator only monitors
> the engine side and not the house side. So what is happening is the
> alternator thinks the voltage is low and is raising it to try to make up
> for the loss. Mean while the house side is seeing a way over voltage
> condition.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252448 is a reply to message #252444] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 06:23 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Like this guy already..he's got a Kingsley and he's been doing some
'lurking'
Jim Ernst
Columbus, Nebraska
77 Kingsley
TZE267V100906 the info is all here !!
Thank you Jim for the info. It will make life easier for everyone. Now,
about the Black List.....
Mike in NS
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Whatta ya think, Ken, where'd that 25.5 VDC come from? The 17.98 VDC
> should have been the internal voltage limiter cutting in; why didn't it
> continue to limit the output???
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
> Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>> You could have one of several problems. Probably you have a bad
> isolator.
>> The alternator hooks directly to the isolator. The isolator splits the
>> charge between the house and engine battery systems. The alternator has
>> a sense line run to the engine battery side and raises or lowers the
> voltage
>> to maintain around 14 volts. Unfortunately the alternator only monitors
>> the engine side and not the house side. So what is happening is the
>> alternator thinks the voltage is low and is raising it to try to make up
>> for the loss. Mean while the house side is seeing a way over voltage
>> condition.
>> --
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
* This is my second trip through the 60's; the first time the drugs were
better !
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252482 is a reply to message #252479] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 11:43 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You're probably right. Doesn't do a whole lot of good to have a voltage
limit that can't withstand high voltage though, does it? :-)
Unfortunately, he's probably now running without that protection and has
no way to prove it to NAPA so he can get a replacement (which might not be
any better, I guess).
Yeah, the 10SI probably can survive that kind of overvoltage -- but what
else in the coach can?
Ken H.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 18 June 2014 06:39
>> Whatta ya think, Ken, where'd that 25.5 VDC come from? The 17.98 VDC
>> should have been the internal voltage limiter cutting in; why didn't it
>> continue to limit the output???
>>
>> Ken H.
>
> Ken,
>
> There may be a simple answer....
> I have been informed that many of the Chinese sourced replacement
> regulators either don't have the 18V limit, or it blows out when taxed.
> A Delco 10SI can supposedly do 30V+ without damaging itself.
>
> Matt
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252529 is a reply to message #252482] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 14:51 |
james Ernst
Messages: 79
Registered: December 2013
Location: Lincoln, NE
Karma: -4
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Member |
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Gang thanks so much for all your input, very happy to finally have my GMC
and be a part of this fantastic clan or cult or both really.
NAPA did order me in a new alternator, thankfully they didn't give me any
grief over the issue. I wish I didn't have to go to work tonight so I get
put back in and check everything over according to Ken's instructions. It
took me a second to find the isolator, it is in a different location than
whats in the service manual and looks totally different.
Mr. Fisher, if you catch this, I in fact do need one of your APC cables.
Hopefully I can get the info to you on break tonight so I can get you paid
and you can send one out.
Also thanks to Mike from NS, yes I have been lurking awhile, I figured it's
a great way to prep so when I did get this ship home I'd be up to speed on
this old girl.
Some of the techs at our dealership had worked on a few of these. We had 3
or 4 as I recall in the vicinity that owned them. While we were not an
official GMC motorhome dealer, GM did authorize us to work on them because
these customers complained loud enough that they didn't want to drive the
85 miles to Omaha and back to get them worked on.
John won't have to track me down as I registered her last night too BTW.
Thanks again everybody all is much appreciated!
Jim Ernst
Columbus, NE
'77 Kingsley
TZE267V100906
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> You're probably right. Doesn't do a whole lot of good to have a voltage
> limit that can't withstand high voltage though, does it? :-)
> Unfortunately, he's probably now running without that protection and has
> no way to prove it to NAPA so he can get a replacement (which might not be
> any better, I guess).
>
> Yeah, the 10SI probably can survive that kind of overvoltage -- but what
> else in the coach can?
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Matt Colie
> wrote:
>
>> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 18 June 2014 06:39
>>> Whatta ya think, Ken, where'd that 25.5 VDC come from? The 17.98 VDC
>>> should have been the internal voltage limiter cutting in; why didn't it
>>> continue to limit the output???
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> There may be a simple answer....
>> I have been informed that many of the Chinese sourced replacement
>> regulators either don't have the 18V limit, or it blows out when taxed.
>> A Delco 10SI can supposedly do 30V+ without damaging itself.
>>
>> Matt
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Jimbalaya
No Coach yet
60 Olds 88
66 Toro
76 Toro
86 cutlass Supreme
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| Re: [GMCnet] What to do what to do revisited. [message #252560 is a reply to message #252529] |
Wed, 18 June 2014 18:05 |
 |
JShot
Messages: 485
Registered: October 2006
Location: NW Ohio
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Quote:
John won't have to track me down as I registered her last night too BTW.
Thanks again everybody all is much appreciated!
Jim Ernst
Columbus, NE
'77 Kingsley
TZE267V100906
Thanks, Jim - Got it, and will get back to you in a day or two!
John
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
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