Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? (Ever visit the factory in Oz? )
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Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250014] |
Sun, 18 May 2014 08:42 |
JimGunther
Messages: 228 Registered: March 2007 Location: West Haven, CT
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Some months ago I speculated the Fiat / Dodge FWD truck frame/power unit MIGHT make a suitable update (with some RELATIVELY) minor modifications.
Hard to believe a Fiat could carry a GMC on its' back but.....
I just returned from a 2,000 KM "back roads" trip in Northern Italy and was shocked by the number of Fiat (and other) powered Class C motorhomes. Don't know if any were V-6 or Diesel powered. I never took the chance to talk to any of the drivers but, none seemed to have any problem climbing any of the goat paths we enjoyed (in our Fiat Panda rental).
Did you ever get to the factory near you (in OZ) to get a closer look. There seemed to be several options including a GMC-like tandem arrangement in the rear. Worth a closer look?
Jim Gunther
www.LotusV6.com
now former owner - ;(
73 GMC-II 2600
by Explorer
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Re: [GMCnet] Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250035 is a reply to message #250034] |
Sun, 18 May 2014 11:07 |
appie
Messages: 902 Registered: April 2013 Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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The frame resembles the gmc, but is not quite the qualityhttp://www.al-ko.com/406.htm Suspension is taken directly from the trailerline witha torsionbar axel
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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Re: Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250037 is a reply to message #250014] |
Sun, 18 May 2014 11:16 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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JimGunther wrote on Sun, 18 May 2014 07:42Some months ago I speculated the Fiat / Dodge FWD truck frame/power unit MIGHT make a suitable update (with some RELATIVELY) minor modifications.
Hard to believe a Fiat could carry a GMC on its' back but.....
I just returned from a 2,000 KM "back roads" trip in Northern Italy and was shocked by the number of Fiat (and other) powered Class C motorhomes. Don't know if any were V-6 or Diesel powered. I never took the chance to talk to any of the drivers but, none seemed to have any problem climbing any of the goat paths we enjoyed (in our Fiat Panda rental).
Did you ever get to the factory near you (in OZ) to get a closer look. There seemed to be several options including a GMC-like tandem arrangement in the rear. Worth a closer look?
We have several "Americanized" units with the Chrysler 3.6 at our tech center. Several are cutaway units with dually rear wheels (not tandem) Looking at the components, I just don't see that they can handle a GMC body from a durability standpoint. Maybe an empty shell, but our coaches are furnished with very heavy parts such as particle wood cabinets, fancy countertops, etc.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250053 is a reply to message #250014] |
Sun, 18 May 2014 15:56 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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IF I had 173 Large....
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250057 is a reply to message #250035] |
Sun, 18 May 2014 17:15 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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That axle arrangment reminds me of my '90 Airstream Land Yacht (the
fiberglass version, not the all-aluminum one). I drove across country with
it in '96, right after buying it, without doing any work on it. Shortly
after our return, at the last stop sign before our destination, the left
rear brake (the rear, not the middle on the tandem axles) began to make an
awful howling, squealing noise.
When I removed the guilty brake drum, imagine my surprise to find that it
was magnetically operated! A little further examination showed why: the
trailing axle was a Torsilastic straight from the trailer line! In a way,
that was good: a local RV dealership had a complete brake, backing plate
out, for a very reasonable price.
We soon replaced the Airstream with a '97 Safari, which also had
Torsilastic suspension, but of a completely different, more robust design
specifically for large motorhome applications.
I was completely satisfied with both of those, and I've often wondered
whether that might be a viable replacement for the GMC's somewhat weird
arrangement. It certainly has far fewer wear & maintenance points -- but
no leveling capability.
Ken H.
On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM, lenze middelberg wrote:
> The frame resembles the gmc, but is not quite the qualityhttp://
> www.al-ko.com/406.htm Suspension is taken directly from the trailerline
> witha
> torsionbar axel
> --
> Appie
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250063 is a reply to message #250057] |
Sun, 18 May 2014 17:51 |
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I recall your telling me about that experience. I didn't give great thought to the implementation by Airstream. However, I was aware that the design on the Safari was from BF Goodrich.
As to the rear axle development used in Europe (by Dunlop), it also rides on air springs. One of the features they boast of when used on trucks was keeping the load floor level regardless of the weight (to a fixed limit). I've often wondered why it never made it across the pond to this side. That rear end and frame is married to a lot of different front clips including the MB Sprinter chassis, though there isn't much bragging about it being used with them.
The one thing about that design is that one axle doesn't interact with the other as in the original design on the GMC. The bogey has it's good points and it's bad point but people that drive tandem rear ends know that the ride and is better than a single rear axle. For sure, the Dunlop design would be relatively inexpensive to implement once the politics of the situation was settled.
Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 18 May 2014 18:15That axle arrangment reminds me of my '90 Airstream Land Yacht (the
fiberglass version, not the all-aluminum one). I drove across country with
it in '96, right after buying it, without doing any work on it. Shortly
after our return, at the last stop sign before our destination, the left
rear brake (the rear, not the middle on the tandem axles) began to make an
awful howling, squealing noise.
When I removed the guilty brake drum, imagine my surprise to find that it
was magnetically operated! A little further examination showed why: the
trailing axle was a Torsilastic straight from the trailer line! In a way,
that was good: a local RV dealership had a complete brake, backing plate
out, for a very reasonable price.
We soon replaced the Airstream with a '97 Safari, which also had
Torsilastic suspension, but of a completely different, more robust design
specifically for large motorhome applications.
I was completely satisfied with both of those, and I've often wondered
whether that might be a viable replacement for the GMC's somewhat weird
arrangement. It certainly has far fewer wear & maintenance points -- but
no leveling capability.
Ken H.
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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Re: [GMCnet] Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250232 is a reply to message #250035] |
Tue, 20 May 2014 20:54 |
JimGunther
Messages: 228 Registered: March 2007 Location: West Haven, CT
Karma: 0
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There is one on their site (I'll have to dig deeper) that show (what appears to be independent) 4 separate or independently suspended wheels. The illustration I'm referring to seemed pretty beefy (God only knows what kind of premium they get for it and whether it would be cost-effective to specify the set-up to be located where it needs to be for the 23' or 26' GMC.
I wonder if the "Integrated" models include a heavier and more flexible rear wheel set-up.
appie wrote on Sun, 18 May 2014 12:07The frame resembles the gmc, but is not quite the qualityhttp://www.al-ko.com/406.htm Suspension is taken directly from the trailerline witha torsionbar axel
Jim Gunther
www.LotusV6.com
now former owner - ;(
73 GMC-II 2600
by Explorer
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Re: [GMCnet] Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250240 is a reply to message #250238] |
Tue, 20 May 2014 23:58 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Todd,
You might have something there!
Here's a link to an article that shows the frame / FWD setup:
http://www.allpar.com/trucks/ram/ProMaster.html
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Perkins
I still think the Dodge Promax would be a great fit. FWD V6 diesel with 10,000 GVW + 5,000 towing. that means the drivetrain with
pull 15,000 lbs, right? I can't wait until they start showing up in the junk yards and I can get a better look at them.
http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ram_promaster/
--
Todd
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250263 is a reply to message #250232] |
Wed, 21 May 2014 12:21 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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JimGunther wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 19:54There is one on their site (I'll have to dig deeper) that show (what appears to be independent) 4 separate or independently suspended wheels. The illustration I'm referring to seemed pretty beefy (God only knows what kind of premium they get for it and whether it would be cost-effective to specify the set-up to be located where it needs to be for the 23' or 26' GMC.
I wonder if the "Integrated" models include a heavier and more flexible rear wheel set-up.
appie wrote on Sun, 18 May 2014 12:07The frame resembles the gmc, but is not quite the qualityhttp://www.al-ko.com/406.htm Suspension is taken directly from the trailerline witha torsionbar axel
The US units have leaf spring rear axles. The "frame rails" are really the reinforcements from the unibody enclosed versions and are more or less sheet metal style
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Fiat Frame/Driveline - Mueller? [message #250285 is a reply to message #250238] |
Wed, 21 May 2014 19:44 |
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Just because the drivetrain can pull it doesn't mean the chassis can haul it. If the chassis were beefed up a bit more and those leaf springs replaced with air springs (and add a tandem axle) then the product could haul the GMC's 26-foot body, plumbing, and other gear with no problem. Still, it might be a bit noisy in the front if you went for the 3.0L diesel with more torque than the 3.6L gas. Better economy does have it's price.
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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