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| Re: [GMCnet] Freon 12 replacement article [message #249884 is a reply to message #249876] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 21:02   |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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I have heard many comments that it is available in Mexico. Anyone know for
a fact?
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Al The HeatGuy wrote:
> Freon 12 is still very much available.
> I was just in the AC supply house and asked about it.
> Just goes to show that if ya gotta have it, there's somebody to sell it to
> you.
> The counterman asked if I wanted any (I have a license to buy it), but I
> still have some.
> Any vehicle of mine that came with Freon 12 will have it in there as long
> as
> I own it.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry and Cheryl
> Dilk
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 12:55 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Freon 12 replacement article
>
> Sounds like some propane derived refrigerant is being promoted.
>
> [
> http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/05/16/tech-101-refrigerant-what-you
> -can-use-what-you-should-use-what-is-no-longer-available/?refer=news]
> --
> Larry Dilk
> Indianapolis, IN
> 76 Eleganza II
> Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
> Just LOVE It!
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: Freon 12 replacement article [message #249888 is a reply to message #249853] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 22:26 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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My 12 vehicles have 12 always have but now and slow but sure over all the years its probably mostly 134 but Dupont SUVA 134.I have been putting it right on top for years.It mixes fine without full evac. Like I said years...
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: [GMCnet] Freon 12 replacement article [message #250176 is a reply to message #250163] |
Tue, 20 May 2014 03:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Most if us recover R-12 if there is any left and then replace it with just under 3 cans of Duracool. It works great in R-12 systems. I have done a few coaches but Emery does 5 or 6 per GMC rally.
If you do it be sure to not over charge the system. Emery has found that 20 PSI on the low side at 1500 rpm gives great results.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Freon 12 replacement article [message #250186 is a reply to message #250176] |
Tue, 20 May 2014 10:35 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I like Joe the lawyers comments about the high pressure hose becoming a phosgene spewing flamethrower in a fire VS just a fire.
He also talks later on about the dangers of R22 in your home system and it's explosive properties....
So that's my new statement about duracool, phosegene flame thrower or just a flame thrower? your choice...
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Freon 12 replacement article [message #250187 is a reply to message #250186] |
Tue, 20 May 2014 10:51 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Its neither. The typical 12 to 15 ounces of HC12a or Duracool that is used in the air conditioning system, is a relatively small amount of propane and even in the event of a major line break, that would not be much fuel. Much less risk than an break in a transmission line near the manifold.
Propane of HC REFRIGERANT IS ONLY FLAMMABLE BETWEEN 2 AND 10% VOLUME CONCENTRATION IN AIR. It is non-flammable inside the refrigerant circuit where the concentration is always above 10%. In the event of a line break the small amount would quickly be mixed with air to less than 2%. HC refrigerants have a high leak and low flame velocity so an ignited leak tends to blow itself out.
Major conversion of car air conditioners from fluorocarbon to hydrocarbon refrigerant commenced in the USA in Idaho during 1992. I have been looking on the Internet for statistics and find that today over 10 million car air conditioners worldwide have been converted, about half of these in North America, and over 30 million user years have accumulated. Almost all of these have been drop-in conversions usually costing less than US$50. Indonesia, Korea, Philippines, China, Canada, Australia, Japan and other countries also have many systems with drop-in HC charges. In spite of this, there have been no reported fires, explosions or injuries to occupants caused by the flammability of hydrocarbon refrigerant in car air conditioners. Many cars with hydrocarbon refrigerant have had frontal collisions which punctured the condenser. Arthur D. Little, the well known consulting firm, estimated the frequency of the refrigerant catching fire from this common accident as once i
n ten thousand user years, so over 3,000 such fires should have occurred worldwide; if this had happened it would have been big news and widely reported. But even so, no such fires have been reported. There are reports of such accidents with the refrigerant not catching fire.
Has any GMCer ever heard of a fire caused by the use of Duracool in an automotive air conditioner?
Emery Stora
On May 20, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Keith V wrote:
> I like Joe the lawyers comments about the high pressure hose becoming a phosgene spewing flamethrower in a fire VS just a fire.
> He also talks later on about the dangers of R22 in your home system and it's explosive properties....
>
> So that's my new statement about duracool, phosegene flame thrower or just a flame thrower? your choice...
> --
> Keith
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
> 75 Royale GMC
> Mounds View. MN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Freon 12 replacement article [message #250196 is a reply to message #250186] |
Tue, 20 May 2014 13:45 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Keith V wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 09:35I like Joe the lawyers comments about the high pressure hose becoming a phosgene spewing flamethrower in a fire VS just a fire.
He also talks later on about the dangers of R22 in your home system and it's explosive properties....
So that's my new statement about duracool, phosegene flame thrower or just a flame thrower? your choice...
Very good ! There's a new argument happening right now about the R134 replacement. Mercedes is using similar wording.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Freon 12 replacement article [message #250262 is a reply to message #250261] |
Wed, 21 May 2014 11:33 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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larry.whisler wrote on Wed, 21 May 2014 11:17
Could someone out here on the net point out where it states
that HFC-134a / R-134a can be legally replaced with a
hydrocarbon based refrigerant ( Duracool, HFC-12 ) ?
I can't seem to locate anything that says this is allowed.
larry
You might want to look at it the other way. We usually pass laws and regulations restricting what you can do. Try to find a law or regulation telling you that you can not replace R-134 with Duracool.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Freon 12 replacement article [message #250362 is a reply to message #249853] |
Thu, 22 May 2014 12:36 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Wow,Florida is on the list,However I think the 12 and SUVA 134 mix would be legal then.I just topped it off last night and it only took about 1/4 can.I did not evacuate or flush either system,The 67 Eldo or the 77 GMC.I guess it really boils down to the oil.Mineral or Peg.Some oils now say they will work with 12 or 134.The other trouble is the 134 "Wannabee's" Dupont SUVA must be proper and the additives in the generic 134 turn into camel snot in the system.
No way to really cut corners on this one.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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