Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249584] |
Tue, 13 May 2014 07:56 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273 Registered: January 2013
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We're about to check out our water supply lines on our 77 Kingsley. We have the original hot water tank which seems to be in decent shape. We have removed the heat element and anode and have replacements ready to go into the tank. The water leads going into and coming out of the hot water tank were not in place when we purchased the coach. However there was a check valve attached to the bottom water connection to the tank which we assume to be the cold line. We will either replace the check valve or eliminate it completely if it's not necessary. Would anyone please comment on the check valve, whether it's necessary or not and if there is a better way to hook up the cold and hot lines.
We also noticed there is no shut off for the toilet water supply. What are the thoughts on putting one in the line before reinstalling the toilet. Not worth the effort or a really good idea?
As always, thanks for all your comments and help,
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249585 is a reply to message #249584] |
Tue, 13 May 2014 08:03 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
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mickey szilagyi wrote on Tue, 13 May 2014 06:56We're about to check out our water supply lines on our 77 Kingsley. We have the original hot water tank which seems to be in decent shape. We have removed the heat element and anode and have replacements ready to go into the tank. The water leads going into and coming out of the hot water tank were not in place when we purchased the coach. However there was a check valve attached to the bottom water connection to the tank which we assume to be the cold line. We will either replace the check valve or eliminate it completely if it's not necessary. Would anyone please comment on the check valve, whether it's necessary or not and if there is a better way to hook up the cold and hot lines.
We also noticed there is no shut off for the toilet water supply. What are the thoughts on putting one in the line before reinstalling the toilet. Not worth the effort or a really good idea?
As always, thanks for all your comments and help,
My check valve cracked about 15 years ago so I just removed it. I have had no problems with hot water backing up into the cold side of the system. Also, I have no shutoff valve for the toilet--I see no need for one. Unesessary parts just hurt reliability.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249597 is a reply to message #249584] |
Tue, 13 May 2014 10:29 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273 Registered: January 2013
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Thanks Bob, I think that's the way we're leaning. My son doesn't want to mess with a shut off valve for the toilet and we don't really want to mess with a check valve if it's not necessary.
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249660 is a reply to message #249633] |
Tue, 13 May 2014 21:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
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The check valve prevents hot water from backing up into the cold system when a faucet is turned on with partial hot and partial cold water mixed. It is also used in some water bypass arrangements when winterizing the coach. They are cheap. I would replace it with a new one. Also as you heat water, it expands and some of the hot water in the tank can be forced backwards through the cold line. This can be exacerbated if you have a pressure / accumulator tank.
So you could go Bob's route and eliminate it and then add it in later if you have a problem.
How is that for a non-committal answer?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249667 is a reply to message #249660] |
Tue, 13 May 2014 22:59 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
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[quote title=Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 13 May 2014 20:47]The check valve prevents hot water from backing up into the cold system when a faucet is turned on with partial hot and partial cold water mixed. It is also used in some water bypass arrangements when winterizing the coach. They are cheap. I would replace it with a new one. Also as you heat water, it expands and some of the hot water in the tank can be forced backwards through the cold line. This can be exacerbated if you have a pressure / accumulator tank.
So you could go Bob's route and eliminate it and then add it in later if you have a problem.
How is that for a non-committal answer? [/quote
Agreed Ken, it was there for a reason, but frankly I can't tell the difference with it gone. However, my over riding opinion is always based on the philosophy of less parts improves reliability. This part is an example, as is the onan fuel shut off solenoid, the onan rectifier, the water pump check valve, air bag shutoff valves, etc. These issues only come up when a part has failed. I have never forgotten my first job at GM as a reliability engineer--by far the greatest improvements you can make is by reducing redundant parts that were added as so called safety factors.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249673 is a reply to message #249667] |
Wed, 14 May 2014 00:00 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Agreed. In my case the check valve is also part of my winterization kit. I realize you have no idea what winter is down there.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249708 is a reply to message #249673] |
Wed, 14 May 2014 10:15 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 13 May 2014 23:00Agreed. In my case the check valve is also part of my winterization kit. I realize you have no idea what winter is down there.
I still have bad memories
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249818 is a reply to message #249673] |
Thu, 15 May 2014 16:20 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273 Registered: January 2013
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Ken,
How does the check valve play into your witerization kit? I'm headed to my son's tomorrow to check out the pottable water system which includes getting the water heater hooked into the system. There is a plastic check valve there now and, for now, we plan on leaving it in place. We'll check out the soil pipe system too by dumping water down several drains and hopefully we won't find any leaks. We might even fire up the macerator for the first time too. Long list, we never get everything done we set out to do on any given day.
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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Re: [GMCnet] Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249819 is a reply to message #249818] |
Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442 Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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There are different kinds of water heater bypass valves for winterizing. Some have three valves that you have to turn.
The one that I use has only one valve at the bottom inlet to the tank and a check valve at the top of the tank. There is a bypass hose between the bottom valve and the check valve.
I think there has been some confusion in the last several posts about check valves.
Some people have put a check valve at the cold water line going to the bottom of the tank supposedly to prevent hot water from backing up into the cold water line. I have never seen that as a problem.
The check valve provided with the hot water tank bypass single valve system has an entirely different function (to prevent water from going into the tank).
It has nothing to do with preventing hot water from going into cold water lines.
Emery Stora
> On May 15, 2014, at 3:20 PM, Mickey Szilagyi wrote:
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> Ken,
>
> How does the check valve play into your witerization kit? I'm headed to my son's tomorrow to check out the pottable water system which includes
> getting the water heater hooked into the system. There is a plastic check valve there now and, for now, we plan on leaving it in place. We'll check
> out the soil pipe system too by dumping water down several drains and hopefully we won't find any leaks. We might even fire up the macerator for the
> first time too. Long list, we never get everything done we set out to do on any given day.
> --
> Mickey
> 1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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Re: [GMCnet] Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249824 is a reply to message #249819] |
Thu, 15 May 2014 20:08 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Some people have put a check valve at the cold water line going to the bottom of the tank supposedly to prevent hot water from backing up into the cold water line. I have never seen that as a problem. ""
Later coaches came with the check valve but I have never experienced the need for it.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249828 is a reply to message #249819] |
Thu, 15 May 2014 20:34 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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emerystora wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51There are different kinds of water heater bypass valves for winterizing. Some have three valves that you have to turn.
The one that I use has only one valve at the bottom inlet to the tank and a check valve at the top of the tank. There is a bypass hose between the bottom valve and the check valve.
I think there has been some confusion in the last several posts about check valves.
Some people have put a check valve at the cold water line going to the bottom of the tank supposedly to prevent hot water from backing up into the cold water line. I have never seen that as a problem.
The check valve provided with the hot water tank bypass single valve system has an entirely different function (to prevent water from going into the tank).
It has nothing to do with preventing hot water from going into cold water lines.
Emery Stora
As Emery stated, I have one in the output for winterization. I also have one in the input to prevent input water from backing up. The input one was there OEM and I never removed it. It probably could come out since the output one would prevent most water back up and only the slight amount from expansion would be involved.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: [GMCnet] Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249836 is a reply to message #249828] |
Thu, 15 May 2014 22:43 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 19:34emerystora wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51There are different kinds of water heater bypass valves for winterizing. Some have three valves that you have to turn.
The one that I use has only one valve at the bottom inlet to the tank and a check valve at the top of the tank. There is a bypass hose between the bottom valve and the check valve.
I think there has been some confusion in the last several posts about check valves.
Some people have put a check valve at the cold water line going to the bottom of the tank supposedly to prevent hot water from backing up into the cold water line. I have never seen that as a problem.
The check valve provided with the hot water tank bypass single valve system has an entirely different function (to prevent water from going into the tank).
It has nothing to do with preventing hot water from going into cold water lines.
Emery Stora
As Emery stated, I have one in the output for winterization. I also have one in the input to prevent input water from backing up. The input one was there OEM and I never removed it. It probably could come out since the output one would prevent most water back up and only the slight amount from expansion would be involved.
Ken, my point is that people haven't installed check valves, GM did.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249891 is a reply to message #249836] |
Fri, 16 May 2014 23:59 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 20:43Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 19:34emerystora wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51There are different kinds of water heater bypass valves for winterizing. Some have three valves that you have to turn.
The one that I use has only one valve at the bottom inlet to the tank and a check valve at the top of the tank. There is a bypass hose between the bottom valve and the check valve.
I think there has been some confusion in the last several posts about check valves.
Some people have put a check valve at the cold water line going to the bottom of the tank supposedly to prevent hot water from backing up into the cold water line. I have never seen that as a problem.
The check valve provided with the hot water tank bypass single valve system has an entirely different function (to prevent water from going into the tank).
It has nothing to do with preventing hot water from going into cold water lines.
Emery Stora
As Emery stated, I have one in the output for winterization. I also have one in the input to prevent input water from backing up. The input one was there OEM and I never removed it. It probably could come out since the output one would prevent most water back up and only the slight amount from expansion would be involved.
Ken, my point is that people haven't installed check valves, GM did.
Wes of cinnabar fame convinced me to install one in mine some time ago ,I never noticed any difference.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: [GMCnet] Hot Water Heater feed lines [message #249923 is a reply to message #249891] |
Sat, 17 May 2014 13:05 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""Wes of cinnabar fame convinced me to install one in mine some time ago ,I never noticed any difference. ""
From what I can tell, the check valve was added mid 1976. GM must have had a reason, but everyone seems to see no value in it--me included.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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