Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » The electric disappearing table
| The electric disappearing table [message #243396] |
Thu, 13 March 2014 21:08  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Some time back I contacted Kelvin Deitz regarding his fold out table. He was generous enough to send me some design info. After looking at his, I went a similar but different way because I wanted to fabricate it to fit under a bed/couch and needed different geometry than Kelvins.
Eventually I got the geometry figured out and previously posted photos.
As I was in the midst of the thrash to finish the interior changes before GMCMI Montgomery, it came to me that it would be really cool if it was power operated. Just what I needed, another project when I was already short of time. 
Photos are here: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53634-table-foldup-table.html
Here is the bed...all innocent looking...
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6475/Internals_0031.jpg
Then there is this sneaky little switch in a really ugly hole down about knee height.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53631-table-foldup-table.html
Then, over a period of 3 minutes (waaay too slow, I need to go with a faster gear motor) the table rises up.
=http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53634-table-foldup-table.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53640-table-foldup-table.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53646-table-foldup-table.html
TA DA! If it's just the two of us, we can eat on it like this. But if we want more room it opens up to twice the size. With the upholstery cover on the bed and the back cushions, it's quite comfortable and the perfect height. MUCH steadier than our TV trays and more steady and larger than the fold out table that came in the coach.
The binder clip, is a simple way to keep the two halves of the table together. In this photo, I had already flipped the handles out. Normally they lay over against the table.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53649-table-foldup-table.html
These temporary braces are inserted to help hold the leaf steady instead of just depending on the piano hinge.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53652-table-foldup-table.html
All opened out. Two people can sit on one couch and two on the other.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53655-table-foldup-table.html
And here is the motor and stuff. It's the guts from an 12V electric scissor jack with limit switches to stop it in both directions. It's an enable and forget it system.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53658-table-foldup-table.html
Just ran out of time to find and install a faster motor. Thirty second run time would be a good target speed. Three minutes is a bit too long although I expect we will get used to it because you don't have to do anything once you hit the switch. It's fully automatic.
I've also purchased some aluminum honeycomb sheet that will probably get formica surfaces and wooden edges ultimately. The 1/2" plywood works for the test trip. The jack gearmotor has plenty of power to lift the wood.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] The electric disappearing table [message #243400 is a reply to message #243396] |
Thu, 13 March 2014 21:28  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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That's great, Kerry! Now you've just got to figure out how to replace the
"Gas" in my "Gas Powered Dining" table with "Electric" -- This EE hasn't
been able to figure it out. :-)
Ken H.
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:08 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
>
> Some time back I contacted Kelvin Deitz regarding his fold out table. He
> was generous enough to send me some design info. After looking at his, I
> went a similar but different way because I wanted to fabricate it to fit
> under a bed/couch and needed different geometry than Kelvins.
>
> Eventually I got the geometry figured out and previously posted photos.
>
> As I was in the midst of the thrash to finish the interior changes before
> GMCMI Montgomery, it came to me that it would be really cool if it was
> power operated. Just what I needed, another project when I was already
> short of time. 8o
>
> Photos are here:
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/table/p53634-table-foldup-table.html
...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243404 is a reply to message #243396] |
Thu, 13 March 2014 21:41 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Beautifully done! It is certainly something I'd love to add to my coach some day.
Kudos to the folks that came up and perfected this concept!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243464 is a reply to message #243434] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 10:42 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| SeanKidd wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 08:21 |
Great work! Perhaps a jack screw from a garage door opener or a lift chair
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I thought about using an Acme thread bolt...I can get 4TPI instead of the 5/8 10 tpi I have now which would cut the time down to about 1 minute but that is still a bit too slow. This is a cheap, noisy gear motor. I just need a faster, quieter, motor with enough torque to do the job. I also want 12V so we're not dependent on shore or generator power to have the table up. There are quite a few out there reasonable enough. I just ran out of time...
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243465 is a reply to message #243396] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 10:47 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Kelvin, I see how the hidden hinges keep the two halves together when stowed. But are they strong enough to keep the fold out portion from being floppy or tippy when folded out and in use? I was worried about the load on the piano hinge which is why I mounted it on top instead of on the edges and also welded on sockets for the outrigger supports.
I can sit on the table when folded in half but would not want to do that to the folded over leaf.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243492 is a reply to message #243396] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 16:00 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Thu, 13 March 2014 19:08 |
Some time back I contacted Kelvin Deitz regarding his fold out table. He was generous enough to send me some design info. After looking at his, I went a similar but different way because I wanted to fabricate it to fit under a bed/couch and needed different geometry than Kelvins.
As I was in the midst of the thrash to finish the interior changes before GMCMI Montgomery, it came to me that it would be really cool if it was power operated. Just what I needed, another project when I was already short of time.
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I am wild with jealousy and being jealous is not a good thing. I don't even need the motor. I want my keyboard to just appear and hid itself.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243511 is a reply to message #243396] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 18:02 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Why not use an air clyinder?
Faster, cheaper, quieter ( maybe...)
It's nice having compressed air available
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243516 is a reply to message #243511] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 18:36 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| Keith V wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 18:02 |
Why not use an air clyinder?
Faster, cheaper, quieter ( maybe...)
It's nice having compressed air available
|
Good question Keith. The problem is that if you lose air, your table comes down, and being compressible, air would not hold the table up FIRMLY. My luck, the first time we had someone over for food, I'd spring a leak in an air line and drop a table full of food. Can you say happy wife???? 
A screw jack with a gear motor will not back off so where it stops, it stays until it is reversed. The stops are adjustable and I can even compensate for a sideways parking spot if so desired.
But the REAL reason is that I need 18" of travel. Any linear actuators or air cylinders with that much travel would not fit in the footprint available. The connection point for the feed screw is really picky because the linkage swings in an arc. Half an inch either way and it won't work. Took me a couple days to noodle it out....not being a real engineer
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] The electric disappearing table [message #243522 is a reply to message #243516] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 19:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Somewhere along the line, we need to hit Elkhart's surplus stores. We
could probably find there great motors & worm drives from electrically
deployed couches, slide-outs, etc. Not to mention all the other junk we
can't possibly live without. Maybe on the way home from Wisconsin?
One other source, probably getting scarce now: Linear actuators from the
old K-band satellite dishes. They usually had the motor & gearbox at one
end of the worm screw, like you're using now. It should be feasible to
remove the protective tube from the screw to allow more travel. Also,
don't forget power seat drives. The older ones, at least, used worm drives
which could easily be extended to any length if you could find the correct
threaded rod -- or make it.
Ken H.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
>
> Keith V wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 18:02
> > Why not use an air clyinder?
> > Faster, cheaper, quieter ( maybe...)
> > It's nice having compressed air available
>
>
> Good question Keith. The problem is that if you lose air, your table
> comes down, and being compressible, air would not hold the table up
> FIRMLY. My luck, the first time we had someone over for food, I'd spring a
> leak in an air line and drop a table full of food. Can you say happy
> wife???? :lol:
>
> A screw jack with a gear motor will not back off so where it stops, it
> stays until it is reversed. The stops are adjustable and I can even
> compensate for a sideways parking spot if so desired.
>
> But the REAL reason is that I need 18" of travel. Any linear actuators or
> air cylinders with that much travel would not fit in the footprint
> available. The connection point for the feed screw is really picky because
> the linkage swings in an arc. Half an inch either way and it won't work.
> Took me a couple days to noodle it out....not being a real engineer :lol:
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] The electric disappearing table [message #243531 is a reply to message #243522] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 20:02 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
You got it!
I remember when I visited the surplus shops last summer they had plethora of linear actuators and some of them were SERIOUSLY long!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Somewhere along the line, we need to hit Elkhart's surplus stores. We
could probably find there great motors & worm drives from electrically
deployed couches, slide-outs, etc. Not to mention all the other junk we
can't possibly live without. Maybe on the way home from Wisconsin?
One other source, probably getting scarce now: Linear actuators from the
old K-band satellite dishes. They usually had the motor & gearbox at one
end of the worm screw, like you're using now. It should be feasible to
remove the protective tube from the screw to allow more travel. Also,
don't forget power seat drives. The older ones, at least, used worm drives
which could easily be extended to any length if you could find the correct
threaded rod -- or make it.
Ken H.
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243537 is a reply to message #243516] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 20:38 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 18:36 |
| Keith V wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 18:02 |
Why not use an air clyinder?
Faster, cheaper, quieter ( maybe...)
It's nice having compressed air available
|
Good question Keith. The problem is that if you lose air, your table comes down, and being compressible, air would not hold the table up FIRMLY. My luck, the first time we had someone over for food, I'd spring a leak in an air line and drop a table full of food. Can you say happy wife????
A screw jack with a gear motor will not back off so where it stops, it stays until it is reversed. The stops are adjustable and I can even compensate for a sideways parking spot if so desired.
But the REAL reason is that I need 18" of travel. Any linear actuators or air cylinders with that much travel would not fit in the footprint available. The connection point for the feed screw is really picky because the linkage swings in an arc. Half an inch either way and it won't work. Took me a couple days to noodle it out....not being a real engineer
|
well normally these things are designed with an overcenter latching mechanism so the clyinder puches it up and it locks in place. then to lower it you have to actively pull the latch down.
the air clyinder should only be active while in motion and be inactive when up or down.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: The electric disappearing table [message #243542 is a reply to message #243540] |
Fri, 14 March 2014 20:55 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| WildBill wrote on Fri, 14 March 2014 20:52 |
So what if someone has their legs between the wall and seat when it retracts and they die of starvation?
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I guess their coach might be for sale in that case. Trust me, you've got PLENTY of time to move out of the way. Even with a 30 second mechanism, you'd have plenty of time if someone inadvertently hit the switch while people were seated.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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