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| [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241764] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 11:09  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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I seem to be going to my friends salvage yard way to often in search for things, and ideas for the GMC, and other projects. I thought that as I got older that these trips would end. NOT. It seems that this form is contributing to driving me there. ( GRIN ) GMC owners seem to be very interested in updating their coaches to make them safer, more comfortable, and to meet the owners needs so they can continue to be on the road in a 36 to 41 year old GMC that we all love. I even widened our side door by 7 inches for a wheelchair. And GM had no plans for this to be continuing on for so long. We make changes to the steering, front suspension, rear brakes, and rear suspension. This is all done in an attempt to improve our chances of getting to where we want to go safely. Will these changes guarantee our arrival under all conditions. NO. But these changes will help. This also is the case of the shoulder belt. That shoulder belt will do absolutely no good in a catastrophic crash. M
y point here is that how often does that catastrophic crash happen. How many of you that hit the salvage yards ever see a car, or truck that is rolled up into a ball. Or just shredded to pieces. I never have. But I do believe that a shoulder belt will HELP in most accidents. The photo of a GMC with the top ripped off. There is a point to that also. Is there a right, or wrong. It all comes down to your comfort zone. And improving your ODDs of living threw an accident. My two cents.
Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member78 Royale
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241767 is a reply to message #241764] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 11:53  |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| BobDunahugh wrote on Fri, 28 February 2014 11:09 |
I seem to be going to my friends salvage yard way to often in search for things, and ideas for the GMC, and other projects. I thought that as I got older that these trips would end. NOT. It seems that this form is contributing to driving me there. ( GRIN ) GMC owners seem to be very interested in updating their coaches to make them safer, more comfortable, and to meet the owners needs so they can continue to be on the road in a 36 to 41 year old GMC that we all love. I even widened our side door by 7 inches for a wheelchair. And GM had no plans for this to be continuing on for so long. We make changes to the steering, front suspension, rear brakes, and rear suspension. This is all done in an attempt to improve our chances of getting to where we want to go safely. Will these changes guarantee our arrival under all conditions. NO. But these changes will help. This also is the case of the shoulder belt. That shoulder belt will do absolutely no good in a catastrophic crash. M
y point here is that how often does that catastrophic crash happen. How many of you that hit the salvage yards ever see a car, or truck that is rolled up into a ball. Or just shredded to pieces. I never have. But I do believe that a shoulder belt will HELP in most accidents. The photo of a GMC with the top ripped off. There is a point to that also. Is there a right, or wrong. It all comes down to your comfort zone. And improving your ODDs of living threw an accident. My two cents.
Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member78 Royale
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Bob,
I don't come away from the shoulder belt discussion discouraged, I see that there are enough ways to do it that I can find one that suits me.
The ONE way that I can see that has a good chance of keeping your face off the steering wheel in a "minor" front collision, and won't tear your head off in a rollover, is the one with the belt anchored to the floor and going over the shoulder of the seat. The floor where the seat bolts down would need to be reinforced to help keep the seat from tearing loose in a "real" head-on crash, and no one can tell us how much reinforcement or where. But that would be my approach.
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241769 is a reply to message #241767] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 12:09 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Well, there are 14 jillion different scenarios when it comes to crashes. We
all agree that the GMC, above the belt line is Not Substantial enough to
attach shoulder harness to. So, do we do something like the Land speed GMC
has done and make a full cage with inertia reels and Hahn's device, or look
at percentages of the most probable types of accident we are MOST LIKELY to
be involved in. I kind of lean towards accident prevention rather than the
doomsday preparedness situation. We are driving a 12000 pound vehicle in
much heavier traffic patterns than the era in which it was designed. Seems
like more effective brakes ought to be very high on the list. Fewer
distractions inside the cockpit ought to be a high priority as well. Just
my way of looking at it. All that instrumentation that some GMC 's have
will certainly take your eyes off the road for too long in my opinion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 28, 2014 9:53 AM, "A." <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> BobDunahugh wrote on Fri, 28 February 2014 11:09
> > I seem to be going to my friends salvage yard way to often in search for
> things, and ideas for the GMC, and other projects. I thought that as I got
> older that these trips would end. NOT. It seems that this form is
> contributing to driving me there. ( GRIN ) GMC owners seem to be very
> interested in updating their coaches to make them safer, more comfortable,
> and to meet the owners needs so they can continue to be on the road in a
> 36 to 41 year old GMC that we all love. I even widened our side door by 7
> inches for a wheelchair. And GM had no plans for this to be continuing on
> for so long. We make changes to the steering, front suspension, rear
> brakes, and rear suspension. This is all done in an attempt to improve our
> chances of getting to where we want to go safely. Will these changes
> guarantee our arrival under all conditions. NO. But these changes will
> help. This also is the case of the shoulder belt. That shoulder belt will
> do absolutely no good in a catastrophic crash.
> M
> > y point here is that how often does that catastrophic crash happen. How
> many of you that hit the salvage yards ever see a car, or truck that is
> rolled up into a ball. Or just shredded to pieces. I never have. But I do
> believe that a shoulder belt will HELP in most accidents. The photo of a
> GMC with the top ripped off. There is a point to that also. Is there a
> right, or wrong. It all comes down to your comfort zone. And improving your
> ODDs of living threw an accident. My two cents.
> > Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member78 Royale
> Bob,
>
> I don't come away from the shoulder belt discussion discouraged, I see
> that there are enough ways to do it that I can find one that suits me.
>
> The ONE way that I can see that has a good chance of keeping your face off
> the steering wheel in a "minor" front collision, and won't tear your head
> off in a rollover, is the one with the belt anchored to the floor and going
> over the shoulder of the seat. The floor where the seat bolts down would
> need to be reinforced to help keep the seat from tearing loose in a "real"
> head-on crash, and no one can tell us how much reinforcement or where. But
> that would be my approach.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to
> service.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241774 is a reply to message #241769] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 12:39 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2/28/2014 10:09 AM, James Hupy wrote:
> Well, there are 14 jillion different scenarios when it comes to crashes. We
> all agree that the GMC, above the belt line is Not Substantial enough to
> attach shoulder harness to. So, do we do something like the Land speed GMC
> has done and make a full cage with inertia reels and Hahn's device, or look
> at percentages of the most probable types of accident we are MOST LIKELY to
> be involved in. I kind of lean towards accident prevention rather than the
> doomsday preparedness situation.
Hear, hear...
> We are driving a 12000 pound vehicle in much heavier traffic patterns than the era in which it was designed. Seems like more effective brakes ought to be very high on the list.
80mm front calipers and well adjusted drums worked as well as they could
on my coach but when I saw the first available Reaction Arm brakes I was
almost willing to mortgage the farm to buy them. Bringing the price down
to manageable levels make Manny (disc) and Tom (drums) my heroes. I'm
finally very comfortable with the braking on my coach.
> Fewer distractions inside the cockpit ought to be a high priority as well.
Pretty sure all of us realize we're not driving minivans. Considering my
love of "enthusiastic' driving, my friends can't figure out why I like
driving the GMC. It doesn't involve you the same was as a fast, good
handling car does, but it certainly involves you. The fact that we hear
of so few accidents with a group this big tends to support the idea that
we ARE paying attention when we're driving our rigs.
Very little chance that we'll even need our seatbelts at all. A smaller
chance that someone will pull out in front of us and we can't slow quick
enough - reaction arm brakes or not. And even smaller chance that we're
going to roll our coaches into the ditch and tear the top off.
> Just my way of looking at it. All that instrumentation that some GMC 's have
> will certainly take your eyes off the road for too long in my opinion.
Agreed. I have oil pressure and water temp right on top and clocked so
the needles point up when all is well. A quick glance says the
important things are fine. There is time to read oil temp, tranny temp,
voltmeter and such when I have nothing else to do. The Chuck Garton
School of Instrumentation isn't for me. :^)
Kelvin
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241782 is a reply to message #241774] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 13:21 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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The Chuck Garton School of Instrumentation isn't for me. :^)
Kelvin
Chuck has plenty of time to read all those gauges when he's lost in the woods in Oregon.
Sorry, Chuck. Couldn't resist.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241784 is a reply to message #241781] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 13:24 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2/28/2014 11:17 AM, scott cowden wrote:
> Hal does make a good point on aircraft and shoulder belts. A flying soup can [otherwise known as a Cessna] has shoulder belts.
He kinda does, but I would expect those belts are mostly about holding
you in place in a vehicle that has X, Y AND Z movement. Certainly going
to help during a rough landing or light crash.
> That being said, it seems clear to this redneck that the most practical solution would be to install one of the modern seats that have the shoulder harness integral to the seat back. The floor is already supposed to be strong enough to manage the forces of a belted in driver/passenger.
I haven't looked at it for years, but I'm not sure I'd worry about how
the box is bolted to the floor. There is a lot of structure there. The
swivel, on the other hand, was never made to handle the forces
involved. At least to my recollection. I might be convinced otherwise
if I had a good look at one but... it just seems like that assembly
would be the weak point.
Kelvin
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241786 is a reply to message #241769] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 13:39 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Jim, I don't agree on your comment regarding shoulder harnesses. On our 23
the forward door frame on the pass side is plenty strong to accept 3/8"
grade 8 bolts drilled through the two aluminum sections parallel with the
centerline of the coach. As well the opposite side right behind the drivers
seat also has a pretty heavy aluminum extrusion. I think I have some
pictures I can post when we did ours.
Thanks,
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 10:10 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety.
Well, there are 14 jillion different scenarios when it comes to crashes. We
all agree that the GMC, above the belt line is Not Substantial enough to
attach shoulder harness to. So, do we do something like the Land speed GMC
has done and make a full cage with inertia reels and Hahn's device, or look
at percentages of the most probable types of accident we are MOST LIKELY to
be involved in. I kind of lean towards accident prevention rather than the
doomsday preparedness situation. We are driving a 12000 pound vehicle in
much heavier traffic patterns than the era in which it was designed. Seems
like more effective brakes ought to be very high on the list. Fewer
distractions inside the cockpit ought to be a high priority as well. Just my
way of looking at it. All that instrumentation that some GMC 's have will
certainly take your eyes off the road for too long in my opinion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 28, 2014 9:53 AM, "A." <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> BobDunahugh wrote on Fri, 28 February 2014 11:09
> > I seem to be going to my friends salvage yard way to often in search
> > for
> things, and ideas for the GMC, and other projects. I thought that as I
> got older that these trips would end. NOT. It seems that this form
> is contributing to driving me there. ( GRIN ) GMC owners seem to be
> very interested in updating their coaches to make them safer, more
> comfortable, and to meet the owners needs so they can continue to be
> on the road in a
> 36 to 41 year old GMC that we all love. I even widened our side door
> by 7 inches for a wheelchair. And GM had no plans for this to be
> continuing on for so long. We make changes to the steering, front
> suspension, rear brakes, and rear suspension. This is all done in an
> attempt to improve our chances of getting to where we want to go
> safely. Will these changes guarantee our arrival under all conditions.
> NO. But these changes will help. This also is the case of the shoulder
> belt. That shoulder belt will do absolutely no good in a catastrophic
crash.
> M
> > y point here is that how often does that catastrophic crash happen.
> > How
> many of you that hit the salvage yards ever see a car, or truck that
> is rolled up into a ball. Or just shredded to pieces. I never have.
> But I do believe that a shoulder belt will HELP in most accidents. The
> photo of a GMC with the top ripped off. There is a point to that
> also. Is there a right, or wrong. It all comes down to your comfort
> zone. And improving your ODDs of living threw an accident. My two cents.
> > Bob Dunahugh GMCMI Member78 Royale
> Bob,
>
> I don't come away from the shoulder belt discussion discouraged, I see
> that there are enough ways to do it that I can find one that suits me.
>
> The ONE way that I can see that has a good chance of keeping your face
> off the steering wheel in a "minor" front collision, and won't tear
> your head off in a rollover, is the one with the belt anchored to the
> floor and going over the shoulder of the seat. The floor where the
> seat bolts down would need to be reinforced to help keep the seat from
tearing loose in a "real"
> head-on crash, and no one can tell us how much reinforcement or where.
> But that would be my approach.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to
> service.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241788 is a reply to message #241776] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 14:30 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I'm guessing it would get complex, after all, this is a chassis on frame
vehicle.
I do wonder if a cage that included the passenger portion (front seats and
the couch area) would be of use?
Should it be to some racing spec, or? Here is where you might run into some
liability if you sold it, while it would mostly be an improvement, it
wouldn't always be, and someone might sue you. Also, you might need to
upgrade the seating, otherwise you have added more things to hit your head
on.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:58 AM, John Trellue <jtrellue@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> New here but wanted to chime in if I could. As I was reading James's
> statement yes maybe putting in a roll bar of some type was just my thought.
> Could this be done? Has it been done other than in a made for speed GMC?
> Can it be done without major surgery? Updating saftey is on my list of
> things to see done to mine. Heck I would put in air bags if I new that much
> about them. I would like my pasengers and I to know that if an accident
> were to occur we could all walk away.
> --
> John T.
> Humble Texas just north of Houston
> '67 Firebird convetable
> '71 Buick GS
> '77 Trans AM
> '73 Porsche 914
> '74 Sequioa
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241795 is a reply to message #241788] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 15:35 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Too much weight for a simple hoop to be of any use. The structure
you're building it into isn't really conductive to a strong, simple
hoop, either. If you look at the cage in the LSR coach it's massive and
I'm guessing all of the main points go directly to the frame... a frame
that you really want isolated from the body in any coach you're going to
use.
I don't think there's any way to build anything other that would do the
job well. And those who have cages in there cars without wearing a
helmet are also fooling themselves. If you actually get into something
where you end up using the cage you'd be surprised just how far your
body and move and stretch in an accident. You head coming in contact
with a steel tube is pretty much all bad.
Kelvin
On 2/28/2014 12:30 PM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> I'm guessing it would get complex, after all, this is a chassis on frame
> vehicle.
>
> I do wonder if a cage that included the passenger portion (front seats and
> the couch area) would be of use?
>
> Should it be to some racing spec, or? Here is where you might run into some
> liability if you sold it, while it would mostly be an improvement, it
> wouldn't always be, and someone might sue you. Also, you might need to
> upgrade the seating, otherwise you have added more things to hit your head
> on.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:58 AM, John Trellue <jtrellue@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> New here but wanted to chime in if I could. As I was reading James's
>> statement yes maybe putting in a roll bar of some type was just my thought.
>> Could this be done? Has it been done other than in a made for speed GMC?
>> Can it be done without major surgery? Updating saftey is on my list of
>> things to see done to mine. Heck I would put in air bags if I new that much
>> about them. I would like my pasengers and I to know that if an accident
>> were to occur we could all walk away.
>> --
>> John T.
>> Humble Texas just north of Houston
>> '67 Firebird convetable
>> '71 Buick GS
>> '77 Trans AM
>> '73 Porsche 914
>> '74 Sequioa
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241801 is a reply to message #241795] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 15:59 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Back in my dragster pilot days, if there was any room at all between my
helmet and the cage, just the forces in a uneventful run would blur my
vision if any contact was made between helmet and an unpadded portion of
the cage. And the dragster was all cage. I never got one upside down, but
I did prang the jersey barriers a time or two. If you had an adequate cage
in a GMC, it wouldn't have all the comforts of home to be sure. Perhaps a
23' has more bracing near the door than a 26' does, and the door is up
front, unlike the 26. The coaches I have seen with the interior stripped
were all 26'. I have seen wrecked GMC's both in pictures and after the
wrecks, and everything above the beltline was gone. Perhaps a person, well
versed in roll cage and safety restraint installation, could come up with
internal structure that would withstand human body inertial forces in the
event of a front end crash. I wouldn't attempt it myself, but that does not
rule out someone else doing so. The unease one feels with only a lap belt
makes me back off the following distance in my experience. Jwid.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 28, 2014 1:35 PM, "Kelvin Dietz" <kelvin@datsuns.com> wrote:
> Too much weight for a simple hoop to be of any use. The structure
> you're building it into isn't really conductive to a strong, simple
> hoop, either. If you look at the cage in the LSR coach it's massive and
> I'm guessing all of the main points go directly to the frame... a frame
> that you really want isolated from the body in any coach you're going to
> use.
>
> I don't think there's any way to build anything other that would do the
> job well. And those who have cages in there cars without wearing a
> helmet are also fooling themselves. If you actually get into something
> where you end up using the cage you'd be surprised just how far your
> body and move and stretch in an accident. You head coming in contact
> with a steel tube is pretty much all bad.
>
> Kelvin
>
> On 2/28/2014 12:30 PM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> > I'm guessing it would get complex, after all, this is a chassis on frame
> > vehicle.
> >
> > I do wonder if a cage that included the passenger portion (front seats
> and
> > the couch area) would be of use?
> >
> > Should it be to some racing spec, or? Here is where you might run into
> some
> > liability if you sold it, while it would mostly be an improvement, it
> > wouldn't always be, and someone might sue you. Also, you might need to
> > upgrade the seating, otherwise you have added more things to hit your
> head
> > on.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:58 AM, John Trellue <jtrellue@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> New here but wanted to chime in if I could. As I was reading James's
> >> statement yes maybe putting in a roll bar of some type was just my
> thought.
> >> Could this be done? Has it been done other than in a made for speed GMC?
> >> Can it be done without major surgery? Updating saftey is on my list of
> >> things to see done to mine. Heck I would put in air bags if I new that
> much
> >> about them. I would like my pasengers and I to know that if an accident
> >> were to occur we could all walk away.
> >> --
> >> John T.
> >> Humble Texas just north of Houston
> >> '67 Firebird convetable
> >> '71 Buick GS
> >> '77 Trans AM
> >> '73 Porsche 914
> >> '74 Sequioa
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC Motorhomes, and safety. [message #241807 is a reply to message #241764] |
Fri, 28 February 2014 16:25 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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espen
I was just looking at those seats on ebay.de. I find euro 1250 a bit costly
you know any other sources?
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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