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[GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241013] Sun, 23 February 2014 15:46 Go to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
G'day,

See the emails below regarding the levels of noise Olds 455 cam gear drive sets produce. The photos of the gear sets show they are
both straight cut gears.

I have sent them a follow up question; "can you hear the whine of the quiet version inside a vehicle?"

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 

-------Original Message-------
From: Robert Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:30 PM
To: 'CAT4829@AOL.COM'
Subject: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets

Hi,

I am rebuilding an Olds 455 to go into my GMC motorhome. In case you are not familiar with this vehicle the engine is located under
a wooden floor directly between the driver and passenger seats.

On the web page: http://www.catpep.com/searchengine/searchengine.asp?enginetype=100&parttype=16

I noticed that you have two different gear drive sets:

GD-455M OLDSMOBILE 260-455 PLATE MOUNT GEARS SET OLDSMOBILE 260-455, '59-83 130
GD-455MN OLDSMOBILE 260-455 PLATEMOUNT GEAR SET OLDMOBILE 260-455, NOISY, '59-83 130

In the paragraph under the page entitled; “8620 STEEL IDLE GEAR GEAR DRIVE SETS” you note; “Noisy version is available for a
noticeable whine sound.”

Before I order a gear drive set and build the engine I would appreciate it if you could advise the level of noise of the GD-455M as
compared to the chain drive system which basically you can’t hear at all.

Thank you,
Rob Mueller
________________________________________
From: CAT4829@aol.com [mailto:CAT4829@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 2:45 AM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Re: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets

The Noisy version has very loud whine sound.  The quiet has slight whine sound.
 

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241025 is a reply to message #241013] Sun, 23 February 2014 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Tyler is currently offline  Chris Tyler   United States
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
Senior Member
With a gear drive you never have to worry about chain stretch and the things are pretty bulletproof, which is why they are used mostly in endurance racing.They are sometimes easier to advance or retard[not sure with Olds] Some types require machining the block ior special covers. Again, Don't know on the Olds.
I have run both types in SBCs... the loud ones sound like someone snuck over and put on a 6-71 blower as a joke. The quiet ones sound like you are low on PS fluid.
What I do know is that they cost a bit of power which is why you will see few drag racers using them. [Belt drives make more than a chain but aren't as durable]

I would just go with a quality chain myself.

76 Glenbrook

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241028 is a reply to message #241013] Sun, 23 February 2014 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WildBill   Canada
Messages: 232
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 1
Senior Member
X2

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241039 is a reply to message #241025] Sun, 23 February 2014 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Chris,

THANKS!

You've provided good info.

I like "you never have to worry about chain stretch and the things are pretty bulletproof."

I don't like "the loud ones sound like someone snuck over and put on a 6-71 blower."

I assume that "The quiet ones sound like you are low on PS fluid" is when you're sitting in the vehicle and for me that's not
acceptable either.

Looks like it's a Cloyes dual row chain.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Tyler

With a gear drive you never have to worry about chain stretch and the things are pretty bulletproof, which is why they are used
mostly in endurance racing.They are sometimes easier to advance or retard[not sure with Olds] Some types require machining the block
ior special covers. Again, Don't know on the Olds.
I have run both types in SBCs... the loud ones sound like someone snuck over and put on a 6-71 blower as a joke. The quiet ones
sound like you are low on PS fluid.
What I do know is that they cost a bit of power which is why you will see few drag racers using them. [Belt drives make more than a
chain but aren't as durable]

I would just go with a quality chain myself.

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241040 is a reply to message #241013] Sun, 23 February 2014 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
Senior Member
Rob,

had a friend put a set on his 454 in his mud truck. he had loud exhaust. You could still hear the whine. it did sound like some sort of super charger in tone, but you could notice it.

not saying that all sets are like that.. I just remember his.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241041 is a reply to message #241025] Sun, 23 February 2014 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Chris,

Just got the following from the gear drive company, are they "stretching the truth/"

**********************************************************************************************************
From: CAT4829@aol.com [mailto:CAT4829@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 10:50 AM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Re: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets

Not inside the car.
**********************************************************************************************************

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:33 AM
To: 'gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org'
Subject: RE: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets

Chris,

THANKS!

You've provided good info.

I like "you never have to worry about chain stretch and the things are pretty bulletproof."

I don't like "the loud ones sound like someone snuck over and put on a 6-71 blower."

I assume that "The quiet ones sound like you are low on PS fluid" is when you're sitting in the vehicle and for me that's not
acceptable either.

Looks like it's a Cloyes dual row chain.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Tyler

With a gear drive you never have to worry about chain stretch and the things are pretty bulletproof, which is why they are used
mostly in endurance racing.They are sometimes easier to advance or retard[not sure with Olds] Some types require machining the block
ior special covers. Again, Don't know on the Olds.
I have run both types in SBCs... the loud ones sound like someone snuck over and put on a 6-71 blower as a joke. The quiet ones
sound like you are low on PS fluid.
What I do know is that they cost a bit of power which is why you will see few drag racers using them. [Belt drives make more than a
chain but aren't as durable]

I would just go with a quality chain myself.

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241043 is a reply to message #241040] Sun, 23 February 2014 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikethebike is currently offline  mikethebike   United States
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
Senior Member
PRW makes a dual idler, quiet drive that is a knock off of the original Pete Jackson Dual Idler from back in the 70's. About $160.00 from Rebel Performance on flea'bay.

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241044 is a reply to message #241025] Sun, 23 February 2014 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikethebike is currently offline  mikethebike   United States
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Chris Tyler wrote on Sun, 23 February 2014 17:11

With a gear drive you never have to worry about chain stretch and the things are pretty bulletproof, which is why they are used mostly in endurance racing.They are sometimes easier to advance or retard[not sure with Olds] Some types require machining the block ior special covers. Again, Don't know on the Olds.
I have run both types in SBCs... the loud ones sound like someone snuck over and put on a 6-71 blower as a joke. The quiet ones sound like you are low on PS fluid.
What I do know is that they cost a bit of power which is why you will see few drag racers using them. [Belt drives make more than a chain but aren't as durable]

I would just go with a quality chain myself.




Most small block drag racers I have known went to belt drives in the 1970's because with chain or gear drives they broke camshafts. The belts isolate crankshaft harmonics whereas the gears and chains passed them right along to the cams. All SBC, BBC, SBF, BBF etc I ever worked on advanced/retarded the cam timing by changing the crank gear to a different key way. It was easier with a gear drive because all you did was remove the cam gear and in the case of the Pete Jackson dual idler the idler, rotate the crank gear and reinstall. A lot easier than pulling the cam and crank gear.

In our application with a stump puller, I see no disadvantage to the gear drive.

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241057 is a reply to message #241013] Sun, 23 February 2014 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob de Kruyff   United States
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
USAussie wrote on Sun, 23 February 2014 14:46

G'day,

See the emails below regarding the levels of noise Olds 455 cam gear drive sets produce. The photos of the gear sets show they are
both straight cut gears.

I have sent them a follow up question; "can you hear the whine of the quiet version inside a vehicle?"

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 

-------Original Message-------
From: Robert Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:30 PM
To: 'CAT4829@AOL.COM'
Subject: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets

Hi,

I am rebuilding an Olds 455 to go into my GMC motorhome. In case you are not familiar with this vehicle the engine is located under
a wooden floor directly between the driver and passenger seats.

On the web page: http://www.catpep.com/searchengine/searchengine.asp?enginetype=100&parttype=16

I noticed that you have two different gear drive sets:

GD-455M OLDSMOBILE 260-455 PLATE MOUNT GEARS SET OLDSMOBILE 260-455, '59-83 130
GD-455MN OLDSMOBILE 260-455 PLATEMOUNT GEAR SET OLDMOBILE 260-455, NOISY, '59-83 130

In the paragraph under the page entitled; “8620 STEEL IDLE GEAR GEAR DRIVE SETS” you note; “Noisy version is available for a
noticeable whine sound.”

Before I order a gear drive set and build the engine I would appreciate it if you could advise the level of noise of the GD-455M as
compared to the chain drive system which basically you can’t hear at all.

Thank you,
Rob Mueller
________________________________________
From: CAT4829@aol.com [mailto:CAT4829@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 2:45 AM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Re: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets

The Noisy version has very loud whine sound.  The quiet has slight whine sound.
 

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Rob--you have no idea what noise is untill you try a straight cut gear drive. Don't do it!! Go with a proven dual roller chain drive.

Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241066 is a reply to message #241057] Sun, 23 February 2014 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
I concurr. Used Pete Jackson gear drives on sbc in the late 50's and early
60's. Broke factory camshafts. Never had any problems with Isky Billet
cams. Noisy above the headers and hilborn injection noise, very premature
wear on idlers and pins. He improved later ones with torrington needle
bearings and oil tubes. Still noisy. Sloppy timing. I use Cloyes "true
roller" double row timing chain sets now. Very accurate and wear resistant.
Better than those nylon tipped Cylent factory chains for sure. Low rpm Olds
engines do not require anything else. But, it is your money. Spend it where
and how you wish.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 23, 2014 6:49 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
> USAussie wrote on Sun, 23 February 2014 14:46
> > G'day,
> >
> > See the emails below regarding the levels of noise Olds 455 cam gear
> drive sets produce. The photos of the gear sets show they are
> > both straight cut gears.
> >
> > I have sent them a follow up question; "can you hear the whine of the
> quiet version inside a vehicle?"
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> > Sydney, Australia
> > AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> > USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> >
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> > From: Robert Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:30 PM
> > To: 'CAT4829@AOL.COM'
> > Subject: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am rebuilding an Olds 455 to go into my GMC motorhome. In case you are
> not familiar with this vehicle the engine is located under
> > a wooden floor directly between the driver and passenger seats.
> >
> > On the web page:
> http://www.catpep.com/searchengine/searchengine.asp?enginetype=100&parttype=16
> >
> > I noticed that you have two different gear drive sets:
> >
> > GD-455M OLDSMOBILE 260-455 PLATE MOUNT GEARS SET OLDSMOBILE 260-455,
> '59-83 130
> > GD-455MN OLDSMOBILE 260-455 PLATEMOUNT GEAR SET OLDMOBILE 260-455,
> NOISY, '59-83 130
> >
> > In the paragraph under the page entitled; 8620 STEEL IDLE GEAR GEAR
> DRIVE SETS you note; Noisy version is available for a
> > noticeable whine sound.
> >
> > Before I order a gear drive set and build the engine I would appreciate
> it if you could advise the level of noise of the GD-455M as
> > compared to the chain drive system which basically you can t hear at all.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Rob Mueller
> > ________________________________________
> > From: CAT4829@aol.com [mailto:CAT4829@aol.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 2:45 AM
> > To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> > Subject: Re: Olds 455 Gear Drive Sets
> >
> > The Noisy version has very loud whine sound. The quiet has slight whine
> sound.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> Rob--you have no idea what noise is untill you try a straight cut gear
> drive. Don't do it!! Go with a proven dual roller chain drive.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241069 is a reply to message #241066] Sun, 23 February 2014 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Jim et al,

This is the second time I've brought this subject up, the first time it was about a single gear unit and I came to the conclusion
that it was NOT a good idea.

It was recently noted that helically cut gear cam drives were quiet(er) so I figgered I'd ask again.

From what has been noted for any engine in a GMC a Cloyes "true roller" double row timing chain is the way to go.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: James Hupy

I concurr. Used Pete Jackson gear drives on sbc in the late 50's and early
60's. Broke factory camshafts. Never had any problems with Isky Billet
cams. Noisy above the headers and hilborn injection noise, very premature
wear on idlers and pins. He improved later ones with torrington needle
bearings and oil tubes. Still noisy. Sloppy timing. I use Cloyes "true
roller" double row timing chain sets now. Very accurate and wear resistant.
Better than those nylon tipped Cylent factory chains for sure. Low rpm Olds
engines do not require anything else. But, it is your money. Spend it where
and how you wish.
Jim Hupy


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Olds 455 Cam Gear Drive Sets [message #241102 is a reply to message #241057] Mon, 24 February 2014 07:26 Go to previous message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
My old Furd 300 in-line sixes - like most - used a helical gear drive for the cam.  Standard duty used a fiber cam gear and steel crankshaft gear.  Heavy Duty (this was when heavy duty actually meant something)in my 200 series Econolines and pickups used steel for both gears.  I never heard a difference, I think cost drove the fiber ones.    The HD also used sodium filled exhaust valves.  You [probably could break one, but we never managed to.

--johnny
'76 23' transmode Norris
Braselton GA



>
> The Noisy version has very loud whine sound.  The quiet has slight whine sound.


Rob--you have no idea what noise is untill you try a straight cut  gear drive. Don't do it!! Go with a proven dual roller chain drive.
--
Bob de Kruyff
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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